EQ Never

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,424
37,545
Theres nothing to build up in the sense that you are talking about, you can't get a lead on hate because there is no hate to get a lead on.
Yeah exactly, its entirely emergent just not having the hate mechanic and having the mobs AI chose which player they go after. They can then add shit like collision and , bam, you have an entirely different set of circumstances in battles, which is entirely emergent from what we have been getting since 1999.

There goes the trinity, bye bye. Now you just have melee and spell-caters and you can then use positioning and certain spells like they showed (ice wall) or root, or snare...etc... to keep mobs from destroying your squishy casters.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Holy crap this thread has blown up in the past few weeks. Is the any possibility we can get the mods to edit the first post with what's been learned so far?
I already updated the first post.. Did you check out the links? There really isn't much known but some of those links have great info on what is.

Check out the eqnexus link for a FAQ
 

rolx_sl

shitlord
561
0
I'm with you on this. I'm one of the few folks I guess that just couldn't really get into Minecraft. Might be just my limited gaming time nowadays has me wanting to spend it running around as a PandaPirate killing Ninja Trollsand don't really have much leftover for something like MC. Now the EQ hook will have me dabbling with it of course while EQL is out in beta but no EQN.

I do think they mishandled the build-up and then pretty much lack of jack afterwards other than pony tail tweeting "you build it" and so on type things.

An actual bit more substantial info , even if only about a specific part would go a long way.

And that music video tribute would have gone over I think x1000 better as the initial reveal over the sand water colors.
The first thing I read when I wake up. Mother fucker! Get off my class race you red fox bastards!

Lol. EQN subreddit has gone full NAZI. Only positive votes will be allowed ;-)

Don't they know? You never go full Nazi.
Lol! Never full nazi. So now SOE has extended the arm to reddit that you can't say anything negative about its game. Wow Q fucking Q soe amazing.

Pretty much the same for me. I like tanking (and healing) in MMOs now. It may not be as fun as DPS because I don't see huge numbers on my screen or in my combat log, but I like playing a class where success is based on me playing well. So many times in wow heroics it would be me and a guildy healer duoimg bosses because dumb DPS would die all the time.
Good healer goes a long way in every game and is tide turning for sure. Too bad theres no skill required anymore.

Enchanter in EQ was my most fun role ever in mmo's.
+1

Holy crap this thread has blown up in the past few weeks. Is the any possibility we can get the mods to edit the first post with what's been learned so far?
And for all the people that msg me for multi quote see above ^. How else would we get attention over here if we didn't have 1k pages of eqn conversation?

dave georgeson looks like a sleazeball, a real trousersnake oil salesman.
I've never trusted anyone with a mullet or ponytail personally. Too much business in the front and party in the back.
 

Banal_sl

shitlord
84
0
Now the trick is to outthink the mob rather than out dps him before the enrage timer goes off and your tank dies.
This will be trivial. We're not going to be talking about Deep Blue here.

Raid difficulty has leaned heavily towards demanding execution and punishing errors of execution precisely because players will figure out the "gimmicks" of an encounter extremely quickly.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
19,875
13,393
Yeah exactly, its entirely emergent just not having the hate mechanic and having the mobs AI chose which player they go after. They can then add shit like collision and , bam, you have an entirely different set of circumstances in battles, which is entirely emergent from what we have been getting since 1999.

There goes the trinity, bye bye. Now you just have melee and spell-caters and you can then use positioning and certain spells like they showed (ice wall) or root, or snare...etc... to keep mobs from destroying your squishy casters.
I don't get it. How is hate gone? They've alluded to the fact that the AI will choose a target based on who is the most dangerous and that it's smart AI which can "learn". So if someone is standing there doing nothing why would it attack them? And if they are doing the most damage it seems to me to indicate that person is precisely who they will target. So it sounds like all you have to do is keep your damage lower than the person you want the AI to target. Sounds exactly like current "hate" and "threat" mechanics to me. I don't see how they can write smart AI that will target whoever is the most dangerous and be able to "learn" without it working that way. Otherwise they are just hardcoding "attack the mage first" into the AI, which isn't smart at all.
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
The sense that they said theres no dedicated healers lol? That every game sense has potions and self heals?
So you are either saying exclusively in the EQN example skill is not required in healing based on your first sentence which could be true, and/or you are saying that ever game "since" presumably eq original? does not require skill in healing because of potions and self heals.
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
I don't get it. How is hate gone? They've alluded to the fact that the AI will choose a target based on who is the most dangerous and that it's smart AI which can "learn". So if someone is standing there doing nothing why would it attack them? And if they are doing the most damage it seems to me to indicate that person is precisely who they will target. So it sounds like all you have to do is keep your damage lower than the person you want the AI to target. Sounds exactly like current "hate" and "threat" mechanics to me. I don't see how they can write smart AI that will target whoever is the most dangerous and be able to "learn" without it working that way. Otherwise they are just hardcoding "attack the mage first" into the AI, which isn't smart at all.
We don't really know how it's going to work but they are suggesting it isn't going to just be a simple number function of damage or healing done with threat multipliers layered on top.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
19,875
13,393
Sounds like a pipe dream and empty promises to me. But I would love to be surprised. I feel like all it's going to be is "Hey, he's wearing cloth, attack the squishy at all costs!!"
 

Lleauaric

Sparkletot Monger
4,058
1,823
This will be trivial. We're not going to be talking about Deep Blue here.

Raid difficulty has leaned heavily towards demanding execution and punishing errors of execution precisely because players will figure out the "gimmicks" of an encounter extremely quickly.
Actually..no..

Look at StoryBricks, thats their AI. The mobs are going to be reactive, there is no rigid script. Not only that, they are going to be interactive with each other. They are programed to have desires and things they want to do. Mob combat AI isnt really that dissimilar to conversation. Its going to be comprised of many, many variables, If (X, then A, B or C). If a tank is beating on a mob and getting healed, why would that mob stay there? He could snare or root the mob and move to the healers, and who says he wants to melee? Not only that, but they have said that mobs remember things done to them. "I hit you with my kill shot, and you didnt die, I need to change what im doing." Maybe he calls and icewall to seperate himself from the tank and give him some alone time with the healer. Or maybe HE clears aggro with the tank by disappearing, charming, dispelling, snaring and blinking away, ect, ect... Or one of his caster friends sitting in the back does it for him... itll all depend and be different every time. They have said that mobs wont be sitting in an empty room, waiting for you to come kill them. Evil Arch Fiends are notoriously busy people and will be going about his routine and interacting with other NPCs, actually doing things. Itll be much more difficult to fight a mob on the ground of your choosing.

How does the Goblin King react to the players attacking his healers, how do the guards react to the wizards nuking the king? They are interacting with each other.

Additionally the forgelight engine is designed to handle lots, and lots and lots of people in a small area, and the storybricks algorithms are pretty small data wise. So your fights are probably not going to be simple, bang on the ankle of that dude standing there all alone, but huge fights where the multiple mobs are coordinating with each other.

The simple thing to say is kiting is the answer to everything, but mobs will have the same abilities as players. How do players respond to being kited?

 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Actually..no..

Look at StoryBricks, thats their AI. The mobs are going to be reactive, there is no rigid script. Not only that, they are going to be interactive with each other. They are programed to have desires and things they want to do. Mob combat AI isnt really that dissimilar to conversation. Its going to be comprised of many, many variables, If (X, then A, B or C). If a tank is beating on a mob and getting healed, why would that mob stay there? He could snare or root the mob and move to the healers, and who says he wants to melee? Not only that, but they have said that mobs remember things done to them. "I hit you with my kill shot, and you didnt die, I need to change what im doing." Maybe he calls and icewall to seperate himself from the tank and give him some alone time with the healer. Or maybe HE clears aggro with the tank by disappearing, charming, dispelling, snaring and blinking away, ect, ect... Or one of his caster friends sitting in the back does it for him... itll all depend and be different every time. They have said that mobs wont be sitting in an empty room, waiting for you to come kill them. Evil Arch Fiends are notoriously busy people and will be going about his routine and interacting with other NPCs, actually doing things. Itll be much more difficult to fight a mob on the ground of your choosing.

Additionally the forgelight engine is designed to handle lots, and lots and lots of people in a small area, and the storybricks algorithms are pretty small data wise. So your fights are probably not going to be simple, bang on the ankle of that dude standing there all alone, but huge fights where the multiple mobs are coordinating with each other.

The simple thing to say is kiting is the answer to everything, but mobs will have the same abilities as players. How do players respond to being kited?
This all sounds awesome and sky's the limit but the little timmy player factor always comes into play.. How nerfed will it become due to that crowd complaining it's too difficult? I'm wondering if the SB guys are going to really get to see their vision fully play out.
 

rolx_sl

shitlord
561
0
So you are either saying exclusively in the EQN example skill is not required in healing based on your first sentence which could be true, and/or you are saying that ever game "since" presumably eq original? does not require skill in healing because of potions and self heals.
I'm saying theres no dedicated healers in EQN so how could there be skill based in healing? minus wow yes there hasn't been any dedicated healing worth a shit that comes to mind.

edit: rift, gw2, swotr, ff14 all share the same type of everyone gets a heal shit, and thats the model eqn is using.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
I'm saying theres no dedicated healers in EQN
You don't know this. There is no requirement that a raid bring 5 clerics for cheal chains. Doesn'tmeant that your average group and raid won't have one or five healing classes which have 1 or 2 healing type abilities slotted.