Mughal
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 279
- 39
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
Yes I do hope tier5 takes longer than a couple weeks or this game better have some crazy amount of gear grind / content to hold ppl.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
That's the problem. Tiering up is also about getting gear - so if they're saying 5 weeks to tier 5 that means itemization is fucked. So here's hoping something was lost in translation (for example that the needed gear to reach tier 5 is only a small subset of appropriate gear so actually gear progression goes on for a long time after hitting tier 5).
-_-
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,394
- 287
I think AE outlines are needed otherwise you are restricting your design options too much. EQ basically had point blank or AE centered on a mob/player and that's it. They need to be very careful which abilities get outlines and how visible they are. GW2 does it subtle enough that it's not annoying too much, while Neverwinter was incredibly annoying and Wildstar from the videos is equally bad (GW2 is just a dark red outline, those two others have entirely red fields or broader, brighter red borders).
I share those concerns. Poopsockers getting everything in inevitable, that kinda player has 2 of every class at cap in other games and will do so in EQN. But the common player that's just somewhat more invested then a casual (say, plays 3-5 days a week for a couple of hours) has to have goals for a year *in the base release*. That's where all games in the last years fucked up, they only had content for 2 months and figured they patch enough in to hold those people afterwards. newsflash: they wont be able to do that. So imo the higher tiers absolutely must be time intensive (but not required unless you want to perfect that one class). SOE does that in PS2 to a degree so again I am hopeful they understand those concerns (many upgrades in PS2 have several tiers that are a linear improvement with exponential-ish costs).
I assume the tiers are at best a mild vertical power upgrade or none at all - that's likely given what they say about their progression being horizontal. With that foundation it would be best if tier 5 is really for the players that want to "only play rogues" so they have goals and only rarely chosen by people that still want to feel out other classes or combinations. Since there are no power creep concerns it shouldnt matter if you go tier 5 with your rogue or instead invest that playtime/money/loot into getting your beastmaster to tier 4 and also picking up scout and warden at tier 1. In both cases you get more options, and since nobody is forced to go tier 5 they can afford to make it the longterm carrot. If this holds true, I would be fine with tier 5 taking several months to max per class. But only if the decision between going tier 5 or pursuing other classes is a real choice and not a requirement masquerading as a fake choice.
Maybe I am reading too much into 1+ years old Smed interviews where he talks about making games so that they last a decade from now on, but very long term goals that are optional is exactly what you need for that.
Great post for everything that things AI is so godsent. Its just still scripting.
Mughal
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 279
- 39
It always is scripting. But the problem so far is that the script and the script outcome is local, so there is no way that another NPC/quest 3 months down the road might ping the server and ask that status and decide on it, and maybe have the answer weighted depending on your character current context. Saying 'still scripting' misses the point.
Creed's line about the in between "hardcore casual" player I think is spot on. If 3-5 days a week for a couple hours each gets you max level/tier/whatever you want to call it , the game is going to flop massively 6 months in.
I think one of Bioware's post-mortem comments on SWTOR was along the lines of "we underestimated how quick players would consume content". That worked out well.
I think one of Bioware's post-mortem comments on SWTOR was along the lines of "we underestimated how quick players would consume content". That worked out well.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
You down with RPP? (Yeah you know me)
Who's down with RPP? (This whole party)
You down with RPP? (Yeah you know me)
Who's down with RPP? (This whole party)
Break it down!
Didnt they say there isn't a gear grind in this game? If theres no gear grind, and everyone is maxed in a couple weeks what are we going to do lol? Just the ralley calls and build stuff ?
tad10
Elisha Dushku
- 5,534
- 601
They did. So there's something getting lost in translation. Between "gear grind" and "5 weeks to max".
Its scripted. The npc can't decide on its on to do something, it has to have that variable programmed in. So the scripting or AI only has as many options as they put in. If x then y, if z then x. How many different formulas can you make? If there is nothing else to do besides the rally calls then how are each server going to be different? Like a dragon invading a city wouldn't get killed? No way, course that shit is gona be killed asap on every server. For glory and fat lewtz.
Maybe they just count on everyone leveling 40 classes to t5 and doing rally calls inbetween. Idk, this game I swear I was THE biggest fanboi on this site and everyday it gets worse. Its starting to sound like its going to be a neverwinter with rift class system.
course I will just like all you nubs here too
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 3,644
- -6,335
But seriously, I don't think anyone has argued it's not still 'scripted'. It just more advanced scripting where mobs aren't making merely binary decisions.
Remember, there's 40 classes to earn and tier up as well.
But if progressing your character ALL there is to do? It will flop if they they don't have enough content to keep people interested once they've got all the classes progressed (or alteast all the ones they're interested in).
You would think with their game design decisions (limited vertical progression) they would understand that there has to be a substantial amount of content beyond progression content. I sort of figured that was the entire point of getting rid of vertical progression, they just wanted to create the 'high end' content from the very beginning instead of having to worry about leveling content.
I think they're drastically underestimating how important a measurable system of advancement (re: levels) is to the average MMORPG gamer. It's sad to say, but there's a lot to be said about how much satisfaction can be achieved just from seeing a number get higher. Obviously a completely different type of game all together, but I'd point to the success of mobile games like Temple Run and Doodle Jump as examples. That marketplace is exploding with HUGE money being spent, and typically the only thing that people are playing for is to get a number higher than the one they already had.
If you're not easily able to measure yourself against the player next to you, or even if you can't see where you stand in relation to a cap, EQ:N may have a big problem on its hands. I'm going to wait and see how the whole system fleshes out before I make any ultimate judgments though.
If you're not easily able to measure yourself against the player next to you, or even if you can't see where you stand in relation to a cap, EQ:N may have a big problem on its hands. I'm going to wait and see how the whole system fleshes out before I make any ultimate judgments though.
Mughal
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 279
- 39
I think the point is about managing the combinatorial explosion you might get and saving your characters actions to give more contextual reactions next time. So far nothing like this exists in MMOs.
It's not about the formulas, but about the data that you can collect and what meaningful and fun stuff that gives 'immersion' that you can do with it.
Onoes
Trakanon Raider
- 1,486
- 1,319
I sure would love to get back to the measuring another player how by how amazing a person looks. I can't even tell you how many times I chased characters grabbing screenshots in EQ, because "HOLY FUCK that guys sword is on fire!!!?!?!" and "Did that guys helmet have horns on it? WHAAAAA he must be a GOD!"
I swear there was tons of gear in eq that I never saw, and a lot I saw on one guy ever, in years of playing. I mean, yeah, it sucked wearing my torn net armor for 3 real life months or whatever, but damn, the payoff.....
I swear there was tons of gear in eq that I never saw, and a lot I saw on one guy ever, in years of playing. I mean, yeah, it sucked wearing my torn net armor for 3 real life months or whatever, but damn, the payoff.....