EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

Rajaah · Oct 31, 2021

Regime said:
How are wizards post PoP? Sterling probably knows this question.

Sterling said:
Post PoP is the start of Meleequest

Yeah, the GoD+ era is all about the melee. I can't remember when casters really surpass them again in solo gameplay but I think it's around like SoD/85 (which is also when mercs drop which also helps meleers keep up).

GoD has some extremely large melee upgrades available and then OoW continues that. I remember in OG DoN I was able to solo-plow things faster with a raid (2.0 plus AMV fist) geared Monk than I was with a raid-geared Wizard (who in previous eras was always waaaay better at soloing than the Monk), in addition to having better raid DPS and survivability.

Sterling · Oct 31, 2021

Rajaah said:
Yeah, the GoD+ era is all about the melee. I can't remember when casters really surpass them again in solo gameplay but I think it's around like HoT/level 90?

GoD has some extremely large melee upgrades available and then OoW continues that. I remember in OG DoN I was able to solo-plow things faster with a raid (2.0 plus AMV fist) geared Monk than I was with a raid-geared Wizard (who in previous eras was always waaaay better at soloing than the Monk), in addition to having better raid DPS and survivability.

SoF is the big corner turn and class balance is much better, then SoD (85) is a wild caster expansion. Mages in particular are insane. Probably helps that there's like 1092 pet focuses so that the top focus makes the pet a monster.

Rajaah · Oct 31, 2021

Zaide said:
Will Necromancers bridge that dps gap at 70 after the dot consolidation that happened like a year ago for their 70+ spell lines?

With a 2.0, I expect Necros to do some parse-topping even during Meleequest. I don't know though. Necros definitely have a large advantage over other casters during the Meleequest era.

Rajaah · Oct 31, 2021

Sterling said:
SoF is the big corner turn and class balance is much better, then SoD (85) is a wild caster expansion. Mages in particular are insane. Probably helps that there's like 1092 pet focuses so that the top focus makes the pet a monster.

Yeah, you're right, I changed the HoT/90 to SoD/85 after I remembered how much SoD changed things. I remember casters closing the gap a bit during TSS and SoF as well, but all of those 70 expansions were straight Meleequest. I think you summed it up best with it being about the level caps. Casters need those levels while meleers are more item reliant. Even in the lategame expansions, I think meleers benefit more from non-level expansions because of heroic stat increases on gear.

I feel like during most of the "middle eras" of the game, a melee with mediocre gear is gonna fall short compared to a caster with mediocre gear, but if you put both in raid gear the meleer will pull way ahead.

Sterling · Oct 31, 2021

I thought that the actual consolidation isn't until 71? since it's all spells that have their lines that start in the 70 era or later.

Rajaah · Oct 31, 2021

Sterling said:
I thought that the actual consolidation isn't until 71? since it's all spells that have their lines that start in the 70 era or later.

Lower-level DoTs are also doing a lot more damage than they used to, but it might be simple power creep causing this rather than the consolidation. We have any long-time necros in here that can give us the rundown on the middle-era performance of necros compared to other casters?

I think necros are good throughout the game, to varying degrees. At 115, the top of the parse typically consists of like 3 or 4 necros and then everyone else (starting with zerkers, then rogues, then monks, all fairly close together). Sometimes a mage or ranger creeps into the top ten. Also worth noting that Shadowknights are extremely high DPS at 115 and are frequently spotted alongside rogues/monks in burn fights. That might be contingent on Harm Touch being up but it's damn impressive for a tank class regardless. The only DPS class that really underperforms is BST, never see them in the top 10 and sometimes not even the top 20 later on.

kobra · Oct 31, 2021

I am a long time necro and my own experience suggests its possible to top the parse in every expansion.

I play on Rizlona and I have had no issues topping the parses even against insanely decked out monks. They can beat me if they have cooldowns, but necros don't have short term cooldowns so its not an apples to apples comparsion. If all things are equal though its very possible to hang with them or beat them and I have done so consistently.

The problem necros (and I assume other casters) face is two fold. Some mobs if I remember correctly in omens are completely immune to entire spell lines. If one of our spell lines can't be used it cripples our dps. Wizards can probably overcome this limitation.

The other problem is a perception problem. People perceive melee to be the top dps so guilds optimize their melee dps with proper group composition and adps and if casters don't get the same treatment of course they won't perform to their true potential.

Xevy · Oct 31, 2021

Zaide said:
Will Necromancers bridge that dps gap at 70 after the dot consolidation that happened like a year ago for their 70+ spell lines?

The better your guilds dps is, the worse Necros are passed 70. We're just now getting fights in SoF where Necros are parsing top 3 because they're very, very long fights so they can keep their dots stacked and rolling. Before that even our very competent Necros couldn't crack top 5 or even top 10 on fights under 4 minutes. Monks/Berserkers/Rogues/BARDS were kings of the burst fights. Now in SoF we have a Mage who's literally almost 50% more damage than anyone else in a fight because of a bugged skill. The usual melee are still up there though with bards having some potentially sick burst DPS.

Kharzette · Nov 1, 2021

In the original days, I'd get #2 as a necromancer behind Tsien (god king wizard) on very long fights like Xegony. This was just with horse, ancient lifebane, and neurotoxin. In those days you could hit jboots to cancel the cooldown and just chain fire these.

When they nerfed that my usual raid damage dropped by half. It was a small change but it had a huge effect on longer fights. I never really found a good algorithm for damage after that. Kind of ceased caring.

I do remember doing well on the time phases. I think because I couldn't run out of mana (unless I just chained mujaki or something), and the endless waves of trash were so long, and most everyone else would get bored and slack.

Vlett · Nov 1, 2021

I'm also eyeing the KR market. Like to have a decent stock or supplier before PoP and we get another massive price surge and my normal guys have already quit or just out of stock.

We have the DPS class discussion about this time everytime AA goes live. The only time a ranger flat out owns my monk on dps is for Seru and he was close on Emp. We're both worn attack cap and have bard songs/procs generally. Our team will break into VT this coming weekend and I'm excited to see how some of the reg top 10 shift, if at all. Monk weapons has been a bottleneck, but I'm still generally in the top range with only a Tunare Fist and Primal wrap.

The loot random of mischief has been great for mana users and trading the Aten/Emp drops to share the clickies/AA on them is a huge passive power jump.

LachiusTZ · Nov 1, 2021

Xevy said:
Now in SoF we have a Mage who's literally almost 50% more damage than anyone else in a fight because of a bugged skill

Desire to know more intensifies

Ambiturner · Nov 1, 2021

Vlett said:
I'm also eyeing the KR market. Like to have a decent stock or supplier before PoP and we get another massive price surge and my normal guys have already quit or just out of stock.

We have the DPS class discussion about this time everytime AA goes live. The only time a ranger flat out owns my monk on dps is for Seru and he was close on Emp. We're both worn attack cap and have bard songs/procs generally. Our team will break into VT this coming weekend and I'm excited to see how some of the reg top 10 shift, if at all. Monk weapons has been a bottleneck, but I'm still generally in the top range with only a Tunare Fist and Primal wrap.

The loot random of mischief has been great for mana users and trading the Aten/Emp drops to share the clickies/AA on them is a huge passive power jump.

There's only 1 ranger? Can be hard to gauge in that case because some people are just shit at their class and if that's all you have to compare to it might not be an accurate comparison.

Rangers are stupidly easy, but there's a lot that are incompetent and will do things like use fire bow/arrows on a fire resistant target and use trueshot at retarded times.

Not that monks can't top parses, but if Seru is the only fight he's beating you on then he's doing something terribly wrong

Vlett · Nov 1, 2021

Ambiturner said:
There's only 1 ranger? Can be hard to gauge in that case because some people are just shit at their class and if that's all you have to compare to it might not be an accurate comparison.

Rangers are stupidly easy, but there's a lot that are incompetent and will do things like use fire bow/arrows on a fire resistant target and use trueshot at retarded times.

Not that monks can't top parses, but if Seru is the only fight he's beating you on then he's doing something terribly wrong

We have 7 rangers on the roster, but I'm mentioning the good one for the DZ group I'm usually in. We clear Ssra so fast that he can usually only TS once, maybe twice if he uses it on a shit target early. We also have 7 monks and only two of us are reliable to be in the top 10%. There is a noticeable difference between every class that only auto attacks and actually rotates in other actions. My team is also in the rare spot of having full 72 man raids with the majority of them being people. I'm more interested in the next pull than seeing how # 11-72 parse. ( The only class we only have 1 main of is a mage)

Yes, we also split the raid force to double the loot where/when it's feasible.

Kirun · Nov 1, 2021

Speaking of DPS, does anybody know when Bards become an actual "DPS" class? Sometime around TSS, right? How long does that last? Do they just go back to the ADPS role eventually?

I'm thinking of possibly swapping my Ranger out with a Zerker in my box trio once the era of "bowing" is over, since 'Zerkers seem to outperform Rangers quite a bit on DPS for what seems like the rest of the game. Plus, Zerkers are one of the best "passive" DPS classes, which works great for boxing (part of why the ranger is so great for this era, /autofire ftw).

Bard is enticing because of all the ADPS they'd add for my SK and eventually mercs. Plus, it'd allow for my Shaman to go big dick on DPS instead of having to worry about slowing, haste, etc. Issue is, for the foreseeable future, I don't really think their ADPS and shitty melee skills makeup for the loss of a Ranger DPS, let alone a possible Zerker. But, if Bards actually gain a significant DPS boost that stays with them, that changes things a bit..

Vlett · Nov 1, 2021

Kirun said:
Speaking of DPS, does anybody know when Bards become an actual "DPS" class? Sometime around TSS, right? How long does that last? Do they just go back to the ADPS role eventually?

I'm thinking of possibly swapping my Ranger out with a Zerker in my box trio once the era of "bowing" is over, since 'Zerkers seem to outperform Rangers quite a bit on DPS for what seems like the rest of the game. Plus, Zerkers are one of the best "passive" DPS classes, which works great for boxing (part of why the ranger is so great for this era, /autofire ftw).

Bard is enticing because of all the ADPS they'd add for my SK and eventually mercs. Plus, it'd allow for my Shaman to go big dick on DPS instead of having to worry about slowing, haste, etc. Issue is, for the foreseeable future, I don't really think their ADPS and shitty melee skills makeup for the loss of a Ranger DPS, let alone a possible Zerker. But, if Bards actually gain a significant DPS boost that stays with them, that changes things a bit..

Not sure how their dps works out, but I do know in the current game there is a huge difference in bard with epic / tunare weapon procs plus just an auto attacking non proc'n one. If you do decide to roll it I'd recommend you passively start getting their epic and other proc weapons lined up to get the max benefit. Even if you don't use them you'd make your money /time back flipping the items in the coming months. One dude is always trying to sell bard epic for lvl 35+ and I didn't even know they could complete the quest at that level.

DickTrickle · Nov 1, 2021

Kirun said:
Speaking of DPS, does anybody know when Bards become an actual "DPS" class? Sometime around TSS, right? How long does that last? Do they just go back to the ADPS role eventually?

I'm thinking of possibly swapping my Ranger out with a Zerker in my box trio once the era of "bowing" is over, since 'Zerkers seem to outperform Rangers quite a bit on DPS for what seems like the rest of the game. Plus, Zerkers are one of the best "passive" DPS classes, which works great for boxing (part of why the ranger is so great for this era, /autofire ftw).

Bard is enticing because of all the ADPS they'd add for my SK and eventually mercs. Plus, it'd allow for my Shaman to go big dick on DPS instead of having to worry about slowing, haste, etc. Issue is, for the foreseeable future, I don't really think their ADPS and shitty melee skills makeup for the loss of a Ranger DPS, let alone a possible Zerker. But, if Bards actually gain a significant DPS boost that stays with them, that changes things a bit..

Bard is not good DPS until TSS. Their Bellow AA allows them to hit for 15k and crit for 45k. It lasts a long time, but they go from near the top around that era to a bit lower.

I would also potentially suggest a rogue instead of a berserker. They're more passive than a berserker once you get /autoskill in PoP and you can start focusing on them now. As a Zerker, you won't really get going until OoW and your 2.0.

Zaide · Nov 1, 2021

Vlett said:
We have 7 rangers on the roster, but I'm mentioning the good one for the DZ group I'm usually in. We clear Ssra so fast that he can usually only TS once, maybe twice if he uses it on a shit target early. We also have 7 monks and only two of us are reliable to be in the top 10%. There is a noticeable difference between every class that only auto attacks and actually rotates in other actions. My team is also in the rare spot of having full 72 man raids with the majority of them being people. I'm more interested in the next pull than seeing how # 11-72 parse. ( The only class we only have 1 main of is a mage)

Yes, we also split the raid force to double the loot where/when it's feasible.

What guild are you in?

Vlett · Nov 1, 2021

Zaide said:
What guild are you in?

Elf Sim. Chill, weed smoking required.

Mrniceguy · Nov 1, 2021

Vlett said:
We have 7 rangers on the roster, but I'm mentioning the good one for the DZ group I'm usually in. We clear Ssra so fast that he can usually only TS once, maybe twice if he uses it on a shit target early. We also have 7 monks and only two of us are reliable to be in the top 10%. There is a noticeable difference between every class that only auto attacks and actually rotates in other actions. My team is also in the rare spot of having full 72 man raids with the majority of them being people. I'm more interested in the next pull than seeing how # 11-72 parse. ( The only class we only have 1 main of is a mage)

Yes, we also split the raid force to double the loot where/when it's feasible.

Zaide · Nov 1, 2021

Vlett said:
Elf Sim. Chill, weed smoking required.

All the Elf Sim guys I've known are super chill confirmed.

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