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Xevy

Xevy

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LachiusTZ said:
Desire to know more intensifies
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Shock of Many is a 45 (90?) second cooldown that adds flat damage per pet ANYONE has on a target. It may be bugged and it's supposed to add damage after scaling from focuses etc, but it's not. It's adding it to the base damage so you have Mages nuking for like almost 80k crits and the only people who can get near that is bards going full blast and they still cap at 45k. We think it's bugged in this expac (SoF) and the future upgrades to AAs may perhaps undo the bug.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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DickTrickle said:
Bard is not good DPS until TSS. Their Bellow AA allows them to hit for 15k and crit for 45k. It lasts a long time, but they go from near the top around that era to a bit lower.

I would also potentially suggest a rogue instead of a berserker. They're more passive than a berserker once you get /autoskill in PoP and you can start focusing on them now. As a Zerker, you won't really get going until OoW and your 2.0.
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Can rogues and zerkers be handled with mostly /autoskill though? I've heard that once they start getting discs and such, things start getting a lot sweatier for rogues/zerkers and I mostly want something I can "set and forget".

Obviously actively playing a class will always be the most effective, but I'd ideally like something that is still 80%ish effective with just autoattacks and autoskills. I mean, Ranger is perfect for that in the next few expansions, but once their /autofire loses its usefulness and they go back to melee bots, I figure I might as well have a melee bot that outputs better DPS. That's why the Bard had consideration, because of the DPS they'd add to the SK and eventually mercs, all while doing it fairly passively with /melody. Maybe Monk is the answer?
 
Xevy

Xevy

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OoW and beyond it becomes the optimized group shit show. Gotta have a bard with epic 2.0 and shaman with epic 2.0 and gotta do em both at once during the burn phase with the right disciplines. Casters don't get nearly the power from 2.0s that melee do so it really starts to get very complicated. Once Auras come out there is even more min max and some pick and choose type shit. Raid leaders start getting the "I NEED X IN MY GROUP BECAUSE IM TOP 5 DPS!!!!" tells. The fun part is taking out their bard and watching other people blow them away and then they find out it's not about them, it's about their support.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Kirun said:
Can rogues and zerkers be handled with mostly /autoskill though? I've heard that once they start getting discs and such, things start getting a lot sweatier for rogues/zerkers and I mostly want something I can "set and forget".

Obviously actively playing a class will always be the most effective, but I'd ideally like something that is still 80%ish effective with just autoattacks and autoskills. I mean, Ranger is perfect for that in the next few expansions, but once their /autofire loses its usefulness and they go back to melee bots, I figure I might as well have a melee bot that outputs better DPS. That's why the Bard had consideration, because of the DPS they'd add to the SK and eventually mercs, all while doing it fairly passively with /melody. Maybe Monk is the answer?
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I mean, they can for a while, but starting in DoN monk and berserker get 30 second skills that you can't autoskill and want to be using as often as you can (there is a rogue one in GoD but it is higher endurance so you wouldn't have to hit it as much). The bard bellow is every... 20-30? seconds as well. There's just no going to be getting away from that reality in pretty much every class as you get deeper into the game. They even start getting group buffs that you want to be hitting often, or at least for targetted burns. I think rogue will probably be the easiest to get the most out for the least amount of work out of those three pure melee classes.

This is speaking only from experience boxing these classes. Others who know them more deeply might have differing thoughts?
 
Kirun

Kirun

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DickTrickle said:
I mean, they can for a while, but starting in DoN monk and berserker get 30 second skills that you can't autoskill and want to be using as often as you can (there is a rogue one in GoD but it is higher endurance so you wouldn't have to hit it as much). The bard bellow is every... 20-30? seconds as well. There's just no going to be getting away from that reality in pretty much every class as you get deeper into the game. They even start getting group buffs that you want to be hitting often, or at least for targetted burns. I think rogue will probably be the easiest to get the most out for the least amount of work out of those three pure melee classes.

This is speaking only from experience boxing these classes. Others who know them more deeply might have differing thoughts?
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Well, I definitely realize that the days of /autoattack "afk" will end and I'm fine with having to do some inputs here and there. Hell, I'm basically doing the "every 20-30 seconds" thing already with my Ranger and his dots. I'm just looking to stay away from the whole "rotation" thing, or having to cycle 3-4 "short-duration" buffs type of shit. Which is another reason bard seems sort of appealing as a new 3rd, since a LOT of their stuff can be handled with /melody - it also eliminates some of the only "frustrations" I have with my Shaman at the moment, which is the relatively short durations on celerity and regen.

More to the point though, I'm just looking at the long-term sustainability/best combo for a 3 box. I also realize that mercs are going to change the game a lot as well and I've even considered swapping the Shaman for a bard once cleric mercs come around - at which point it'd be some combo of SK/Brd/DPS.

I mean, the ranger is great now and he'll be great for the next few months to come, but I know that his era of being "easy" DPS is coming to an end once GoD hits. At which point I'd like to pivot to something that is going to maintain relative "ease", but contribute more in terms of DPS.
 
kinadin

kinadin

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DickTrickle said:
I mean, they can for a while, but starting in DoN monk and berserker get 30 second skills that you can't autoskill and want to be using as often as you can (there is a rogue one in GoD but it is higher endurance so you wouldn't have to hit it as much). The bard bellow is every... 20-30? seconds as well. There's just no going to be getting away from that reality in pretty much every class as you get deeper into the game. They even start getting group buffs that you want to be hitting often, or at least for targetted burns. I think rogue will probably be the easiest to get the most out for the least amount of work out of those three pure melee classes.

This is speaking only from experience boxing these classes. Others who know them more deeply might have differing thoughts?
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When I mained a rogue on live during UF/HOT/VOA prior to autoskill I basically used a hotkey with backstab and assault and another for thief's eyes. The burns were consolidated to 3 or 4 hotkeys, which varied depending on what I wanted to do. Now thief's eyes is a longer term song type buff (instead of like 15-20 seconds), and with autoskill, you'd probably mostly just be mashing assault every 45 or 60 seconds (I can't remember the duration) or any comparable skill on a single hotkey.

The only issue with rogue on autoskill is you'll burn a backstab if you attack in the front 180 of the mob when you may not want to do that. So, obviously, positioning on rogue is going to be a lot more important than beserker, monk, or ranger.
 
Needless

Needless

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I've made a grave mistake assuming a cleric alt would instantly get groups, but it's probably just the shitty 30s lvl range before i can just start jerking it in velks->ge or whatever lol
 
Animosity

Animosity

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Needless said:
I've made a grave mistake assuming a cleric alt would instantly get groups, but it's probably just the shitty 30s lvl range before i can just start jerking it in velks->ge or whatever lol
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Its a tad easier but still a pain in the ass for any class because everyone just buys PLs
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Ambiturner said:
There's only 1 ranger? Can be hard to gauge in that case because some people are just shit at their class and if that's all you have to compare to it might not be an accurate comparison.

Rangers are stupidly easy, but there's a lot that are incompetent and will do things like use fire bow/arrows on a fire resistant target and use trueshot at retarded times.

Not that monks can't top parses, but if Seru is the only fight he's beating you on then he's doing something terribly wrong
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What times are retarded for Trueshot? Short fights I'm guessing.
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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Kirun said:
Speaking of DPS, does anybody know when Bards become an actual "DPS" class? Sometime around TSS, right? How long does that last? Do they just go back to the ADPS role eventually?

I'm thinking of possibly swapping my Ranger out with a Zerker in my box trio once the era of "bowing" is over, since 'Zerkers seem to outperform Rangers quite a bit on DPS for what seems like the rest of the game. Plus, Zerkers are one of the best "passive" DPS classes, which works great for boxing (part of why the ranger is so great for this era, /autofire ftw).

Bard is enticing because of all the ADPS they'd add for my SK and eventually mercs. Plus, it'd allow for my Shaman to go big dick on DPS instead of having to worry about slowing, haste, etc. Issue is, for the foreseeable future, I don't really think their ADPS and shitty melee skills makeup for the loss of a Ranger DPS, let alone a possible Zerker. But, if Bards actually gain a significant DPS boost that stays with them, that changes things a bit..
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I don't know about the massive interim span, but I can say bard at 115 is sick DPS...with AAs. With minimum/autogranted AAs they're meh, but if you get the focus AAs for the Insult/DD songs, the focus AAs for the DoT songs, and the synergy AA that procs off of Insults, then bard becomes a top tier DPS class. It's a lot of AAs though. Zerker probably needs half as many AAs to be DPS-effective. Either way bard can be insane DPS later, plus the ADPS boost they give everyone else.

Also, a lot of bard usefulness can be done passively. I boxed a bard and zerker for a while and I actually spent more time focused on the zerker.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Rajaah said:
I don't know about the massive interim span, but I can say bard at 115 is sick DPS...with AAs. With minimum/autogranted AAs they're meh, but if you get the focus AAs for the Insult/DD songs, the focus AAs for the DoT songs, and the synergy AA that procs off of Insults, then bard becomes a top tier DPS class. It's a lot of AAs though. Zerker probably needs half as many AAs to be DPS-effective. Either way bard can be insane DPS later, plus the ADPS boost they give everyone else.

Also, a lot of bard usefulness can be done passively. I boxed a bard and zerker for a while and I actually spent more time focused on the zerker.
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Yeah, the "passive" nature of the bard really keeps pulling me back that direction. Plus, I'm also looking at what they'd bring to the trio once mercs come around. I think a rogue/monk would add more in the next few eras, but once mercs come around, I feel like Bard will smoke the rogue in overall usefulness. Not just because it's a decent DPSer at that point, but adding all the ADPS to rogue mercs can't be overlooked. I think the biggest thing holding me back on the Bard is they don't really make as much sense until at least TSS (when they start becoming a solid DPSer) and maybe not even until SoD.

The big thing that's pulling me toward Rogue is the cheap nature of gearing one. I think I've ruled out Monk and Zerker, since they will be considerably more expensive to gear. Especially in the GoD/OoW era, with the 'zerker rush that'll occur.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Rajaah said:
What times are retarded for Trueshot? Short fights I'm guessing.
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Short fights, super easy fights, with no avatar, having an important buff like haste or eagle eye fall off, too late in a fight when you won't get the full 2 minutes are what I can think of off the top of my head
 
Rajaah

Rajaah

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DickTrickle said:
I mean, they can for a while, but starting in DoN monk and berserker get 30 second skills that you can't autoskill and want to be using as often as you can (there is a rogue one in GoD but it is higher endurance so you wouldn't have to hit it as much). The bard bellow is every... 20-30? seconds as well. There's just no going to be getting away from that reality in pretty much every class as you get deeper into the game. They even start getting group buffs that you want to be hitting often, or at least for targetted burns. I think rogue will probably be the easiest to get the most out for the least amount of work out of those three pure melee classes.

This is speaking only from experience boxing these classes. Others who know them more deeply might have differing thoughts?
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Yeah, bards still need to hit Bellow. Even without that they can both wreck on DPS and add ADPS largely-automated.

In my experience, at 115, I need to press more buttons on the zerker than on the bard. Leave zerker afk-attacking and they'll do about 40% of what they do with active triggered ability using. Maybe even like, 35%. Bard on the other hand is probably more like 80%. Yeah Bellow does a ton of damage, but TBH their DD and DoT songs account for a lot more.

Protip if anyone doesn't know: Don't spam Bellow, allow it to wear off before using it again. When it wears off it triggers a second much-bigger DD which is the source of most of its damage.
 
Ryoz

Ryoz

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Needless said:
I've made a grave mistake assuming a cleric alt would instantly get groups, but it's probably just the shitty 30s lvl range before i can just start jerking it in velks->ge or whatever lol
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once you get CH it will be gravy.
 
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Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Needless said:
I've made a grave mistake assuming a cleric alt would instantly get groups, but it's probably just the shitty 30s lvl range before i can just start jerking it in velks->ge or whatever lol
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It's a lot more due to there not being a ton of people in that level range than anything else. Even with people creating beastlords/new race class combo alts the first 40 levels just goes so fast nowadays people aren't in that range long
 
Jackie Treehorn

Jackie Treehorn

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We’ve come so far since the 8 bit client.

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