Falling out of love with gaming

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Asherah

Silver Knight of the Realm
287
38
Stop cock blocking people from playing (Dalies / lockouts)
You pretty much need at least some form of diminishing returns in a loot focused instanced MMO. Otherwise you'd end up with the hard core players being "done" with the game very fast or alternatively so low drop rates that normal players would consider the game pointless. One possible alternate solution for this is to have random stats on items so that you are likely to get a certain item with decent stats relatively fast, but getting a perfect stat roll could take a very long time.

As for dalies, I don't mind the ones where you get something extra the first time you do something each day. That's just an implementation of diminishing returns. What I don't like is the ones that make you repeat boring quests over and over as a cheap substitute for actual content. Early MoP being a prime example of the latter.
 

Aaron

Goonsquad Officer
<Bronze Donator>
8,896
21,006
Give me a character I feel attached to
I can feel your pain with this. I rolled a hunter back towards the end of Vanilla WoW (got her to 60 a month before BC). She's still my main but damn, it's as if she's lost almost all of here uniqueness. Back then hunters were quite difficult to master (tho easy to play badly, hence the huntard). Almost all pets were different, even within families. I remember when I dinged 10 and could finally tame a pet. I had done research on what pet I wanted. It was The Rake, a rare and cool looking cat in Mulgore. Seeing as I was a NE I had to make a perilous journey across Horde infested zones (on a PVP server). But it was epic, and fun, and the cat was there when I finally got to Mulgore. The Rake also had a very high DPS (1.4 iirc), which no other cat had until the mid 40's, and that wreaked havoc on casters (before the nerfs).

Pet spells didn't come automatically either. You had to find and tame other pets that had them, use them a while til you learned them, and then you could teach them to your main pet. Oh, and you also had to feed your pet to keep it happy. I remember sometimes after pulling too much and thinking this is the end, just to finally scrape through with both of us barely alive and all the mobs dead and feeding her just as a "reward" for being awesome.

Then there were the talents, as I wasn't in a Raiding guild it meant I was more free to choose the talents I wanted, so I focused on BM and tried to make my pet as tough and deadly as I could.

What I'm saying is that all this effort you needed to pour into that character, and the extension of that character, made it so that you (or at least I) bonded more with them. It wasn't really until Wrath, and especially Cata, that I started to bother with alts, as by then most of the magic had faded. Pets were basically all the same, no need to feed them or keep them happy and all that. Sure, it made playing a hunter easier, but it killed something for me.
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Sludig

Potato del Grande
10,067
10,750
"The Rake also had a very high DPS (1.4 iirc), which no other cat had until the mid 40's"
^--- Attack speed, not DPS. 2 different things. Pet peeve when people don't get that.
 

Aaron

Goonsquad Officer
<Bronze Donator>
8,896
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Yeah, sorry about that, was too deeply sunk in nostalgia to spot that.
 

Angry Amadeus_sl

shitlord
332
0
I remember a conversation I had with a friend, one day back in 1999, that was something like; "Dude, there's this Halfling over here in these mountains - come help me kill him."

I haven't had that engagement in an MMO since then.
 
6,216
8
Completely agree with you. It's like every new game I play is just a rehash of something I did 10 years ago. Getting into online trading card games now since I never played them when I was younger.
MTG is probably the behind only Texas Hold Em for best card game ever created.

It's even better if you have actual friends who play light heartedly. When I did play MTG, it was incredibly fun because of the people I played with. We focused on creative and interesting decks, versus dominant ones.

I've probably played 1,000 games of Magic and have spent under $50 on it having built I'd guess near 50 complete decks.
 

Vilgan_sl

shitlord
259
1
MTG is probably the behind only Texas Hold Em for best card game ever created.

It's even better if you have actual friends who play light heartedly. When I did play MTG, it was incredibly fun because of the people I played with. We focused on creative and interesting decks, versus dominant ones.

I've probably played 1,000 games of Magic and have spent under $50 on it having built I'd guess near 50 complete decks.
Bridge seems a lot more interesting than magic, but the complexity without pretty pictures makes it harder to market (well.. no marketing really) to new players. Many of the top MTG players pick up bridge at some point when the variance gets too annoying.
 

Erronius

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
17,319
44,963
Forced grouping, there's your community.
As other people have said, that isn't community.

Part of our disillusionment is probably due to the fact that we've done all of this before. I'd wager that many in this thread have played at least 5+ MMOs, some possibly 10+. Add to that the fact that from a design standpoint most MMOs are structurally the same nowadays. How can you create an immersive world when the only thing that distinguishes your game from others is minor innovations and window dressing? We've all camped, grouped, raided, leveled mains and alts to max multiple times...the core gameplay is rote. Even games like STO, games that people thought might have had a chance at being truly innovative were turned into giant piles of repetitive, boring shit. With STO you could have had wide-open races and factions, a universe that might have felt somewhat interesting and immersive, and instead they managed to make a game that barely managed to keep its head above water. Smash a bunch of races into hard factions, add a form of instancing and a bunch of other shit besides...I mean FFS, they could have borrowed a ton of shit from EVE and made a game that was many times better than that turd they managed to spit out.

There is no RPG in MMORPG anymore, it's progression-based whack-a-mole. On top of that with each new MMO we are expected to get into a hamster wheel that is remarkably similar to the ones we've run on before, and when people get bored more and more quickly with each MMO, people wonder why and toss out all kinds of non-reasons.

You want community? Find an MMO that manages to give players a goal to work towards, or a reason to work together. For me in EQ the goal was raid progression, but I imagine that this only worked for me at the time because I hadn't experienced that before - everything was unknown, around every corner was something new to see. But how many times can you play an MMO and be filled with wonder? Killing dragons, killing gods, endlessly over and over again while gaining +X experience and getting +gooder gear just isn't going to keep working anymore. I suspect that this is a large part of why so many MMO players are quitting MMOs altogether - they've become tired of the same old shit and they start looking elsewhere for enjoyment.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,135
3,831
"I know I have personally stopped playing MMO's. Other game genres have been occupying what little time I have left for gaming."
--Lots of Burnt out Players, (myself included)

I think a lot of the burnout is coming from a lack of character ownership in mmo's now. Most of these game worlds present limited options for how the game can be approached and everything else is heavily discouraged or outright disabled. This conflicts with the concept that you are creating a personal avatar to explore this new world. You have 10,000 options to customize a face you'll never see, but every quest can only be solved using a single method. You can play dress up with thousands of armor models but get funneled down to a single talent spec and rotation for peak efficiency.

Modern MMO's are just way too structured. You, personally, don't really do much outside of determining your character's appearance in terms of differentiation.

I think MMO's need to take the training wheels off and present players with more generic tools and more open ended challenges. Then let the players solve them in their own way. Minecraft keeps getting mentioned all over the place; but all that was, early on, was Legos combined with tag. You had to build some shelter to survive the night. Pretty open ended problem with some interesting tools.

But there is this paralyzing fear that people will interact negatively with each other and impact other player's play sessions. That really needs to go. The only thing an MMO has going for it IS the interaction. By throttling it back and forcing everyone to play touch football instead of full contact, you cheapen the potential experiences people can have. In fact, by not embracing full player interaction, the potential for negative exploits is greater. Therefore, you wind up locking down the whole world into a static snooze fest or you let the Bambi's get turned into sausage through poor design.

A game designed with free player interaction from the beginning would be a breath of fresh air at this point. We had them years ago, why not again.

The MMO space is huge. It can create amazing worlds of complexity and yet 99% of it has yet to really be explored. It's depressing as fuck to think that this genre might stagnate due to lack of innovation and poor implementation. All of the games with fresh ideas had shit design and poor resources to work with and all of the big budget titles have been relatively bland safe zones.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
I agree with 90% of the posts in this thread... question is, why haven't we got an MMO that cater to our needs yet?
 

Angry Amadeus_sl

shitlord
332
0
Know what it is, the reason why none of this shit really has the same impact for me these days?

In 1999, I had Everquest, and... that was it. Unreal Tournament I dicked around with a little bit when it first launched.

Now, there are 40+ MMOs all craving your attention, each with just minor flavor variants of WoW, and players are overwhelmed with choices. In a way, the success of the industry killed the enjoyment of the industry, for me.

To be honest, I'm not too stoked for Wildstar, or any other marginally improved WoW clone. For fucks' sake - get a god damned UI refresh already, it's been 9 years.
 

Adebisi

Clump of Cells
<Silver Donator>
27,738
32,842
Goddamn I loved playing Unreal Tournament in college.

My buddy kept a copy of it on him at all times on a ZIP Disk.
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Margo_sl

shitlord
37
1
I fell out of love in games when I got kicked out of "Valhall" for calling some American Inventor Ogre named Herzog a ebayer in PoH, fucking Assmodean shitfuck gnome enchanter IF I EVER SEE YOU I WILL FUCKING FUCK UR EYE... So lonely, then I fell in love in the smell of pussy, but then I started to doubt myself, and I got really shutin, then I found 4chan I /r9k/ taught me to sieze life, which lead to chlamydia. Now I just piss women of without getting laid. Battyrider, where are you man?!
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,533
599
I'm having trouble finding games to love these days. The only games I've been crazy for in the past couple years is Minecraft and DayZ.

Is anyone else experiencing a gaming funk? Am I gaming depressed?
It's normal. You get older, you have a better measuring stick for what's good and what's crap and you don't want to waste time with crap. Furthermore, once you've played enough games on the 9,10,11 and 12" part of the stick you don't even want to waste time on mediocre middle part of the stick games. Kids haven't developed a measuring stick so they honestly can't distinguish between crap and crisco and developers know this and know they can put a ribbon on crap and sell it to them.

There was never a lot of great games, it just seems that way because looking back over the ten or twenty or thirty years you've played you can name a bunch of classic (UltimaVII, MOO2, Warcraft II, EQ, Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment, Etc.) but you're forgetting all the shitty to mediocre games that you played and forget or never bought that were produced at the same time (WarWind, Die By the Sword, Knights & Merchants, the other 10,000 WC II clones, etc.) and sold to unsuspecting 15-year olds back then.

I'm not sure I get the existential crisis in this thread, generally, though yes, I agree, it would be nice if EQ Next doesn't suck as MMOs are going through a particularly bad time right now with the only decent options being (depending on your preferred cup of tea) EQ Emulators/Progession Server, Vanilla WoW emulators, SWG Emulators, etc.. -_-
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
Am I the only one who always had a selective "gaming-standards"??

Back when all my friends used to play Sonic, Mario, Zelda.. I used to play Eye of the Beholder, Ultima, Civilization, Monkey Island, Hero's Quest (Quest for Glory)...heh, basically good PC games. I think games with depth and games that are streamlined have always existed but back then the gaming industry wasn't a multi-billion-dollar market.


You can't expect me to play quest-fetch games when I could never have played such retarded game concept when I was 20 years younger. Give me something that stimulate my brain, involving, innovative and fun... and you'll find me having a good time. Why do I still enjoy tabletop game still? I've never complained about them, they've always been good. Never once I said "Oh boy board games are horrible now..." No, do you know why? Because tabletop gaming is not a multi-billion-dollar market which means idiots-in-suits didn't invade that genre yet.
 

Jackie Treehorn

<Gold Donor>
2,929
7,678
I haven't played hardly any games this year. Completely uninstalled Steam early in the year. I don't see ever playing an MMO game again. I work 8 hours a day, I drive to the gym right after work, I go to a local park after that typically, and by the time I get home I've only got a few hours before I go to sleep and restart the cycle. I'm more interested in hanging out with my girlfriend, we play sports, go out to eat, go to museums, various beaches here, take boat rides...I've got way too much other shit going on. Sunday is the only day where I really have any spare time, and even that's usually taken by something, even if it's more relaxing than the rest of the week. I'm almost 34, I've never been a "hardcore" gamer anyway, so this isn't a huge departure for me, but this is definitely the least amount of gaming I've done in a year in a long time.