Final Fantasy 16

Kriptini

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I did, actually. Did you think it was actually bad? Other than if you didn't like the story stuff at the end?

I did think it was bad. I thought the pacing was horrendously slow, I thought the combat was janky: no i-frames on dodging, character swapping on incoming damage was more rewarding than blocking, fighting flying enemies was a PITA, even for Aerith/Barrett, and I had other gripes with it that I can't remember right now. The story is also still pretty bad regardless of whether or not you factor in the changes at the end. The variety of weapons, skills, and materia system were cool but everything else fell flat for me.
 
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StoiCynic

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I did think it was bad. I thought the pacing was horrendously slow, I thought the combat was janky: no i-frames on dodging, character swapping on incoming damage was more rewarding than blocking, fighting flying enemies was a PITA, even for Aerith/Barrett, and I had other gripes with it that I can't remember right now. The story is also still pretty bad regardless of whether or not you factor in the changes at the end. The variety of weapons, skills, and materia system were cool but everything else fell flat for me.

Wow, this actually perfectly sums up my experience as well.
 
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Malakriss

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As much as i would love to go digging through the old thread to find numerous quotes on everyone calling out how people that suck at action combat aren't going to like the game, i'll just gesture to this most recent example. Baldur's Gate 3 is thataway for you old farts.

For development time let's not forget that Square tried outsourcing FF7R work to the CC2 studio but it wasn't up to par. So they had to scrap some/all of that and move it back in house, yet still managed to put the game out in 5 years total. Covid would delay it some, but I could still see part 2 by late 2022 but 2023 is more realistic.
 
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Phazael

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Wow, this actually perfectly sums up my experience as well.
I ultimately had no interest in even looking at the FF7 remake after playing the demo. This is despite actually liking the Vincent MMO shooter that god made back in the day. One reason is the choice of action platform. You have anime characters with seven foot swords and guns for arms and its all just..... move around and mash X? Dragons Dogma gets brought up because THAT is how you do a party based action game right. Hell, they even had a fairly workable in house example with FF12 in some ways. What we got was Ergheiz (torture yourself looking that game up) with a pretty skin stretched over it.

Worse than that and even them cranking the gay knobs up to 11 was that the first part is basically what was inarguably the single worst aspect of FF7. The game is fucking boring while you are stick in Midgar and you spend the first quarter of the game trying to fucking get out of there and into the open world like part, where the original got enjoyable. This first installment of the remake took that shitty part and padded it out to forty some hours with WoW lite quests and similar shit. And every effort of Square's the last decade seems to be this tone deaf design. And lets face it, a lot of us old school FF guys who played every single single player FF up til then tapped out after FF13.
 
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Merrith

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I did think it was bad. I thought the pacing was horrendously slow, I thought the combat was janky: no i-frames on dodging, character swapping on incoming damage was more rewarding than blocking, fighting flying enemies was a PITA, even for Aerith/Barrett, and I had other gripes with it that I can't remember right now. The story is also still pretty bad regardless of whether or not you factor in the changes at the end. The variety of weapons, skills, and materia system were cool but everything else fell flat for me.

I can grant the pacing had some issues at certain parts of the game, but I absolutely loved the combat. It was one of the things I was most worried about as soon as we learned it wouldn't be the traditional turn based system, but in the end I enjoyed the heck out of it. It also had a lot of layers to it, to the point where if you got very good at it the stuff you could do was pretty ridiculous (especially Tifa). I will agree aerial combat was really bad, something I hope they improve for the next part.

Most people thought 95% of the story was fantastic, there was just a split at the end some people really hated it, others (myself included) liked the direction they went, even if it is a big risk. I thought the characters were better than we've ever seen them before, including getting to see more of the Avalanche crew.

Honestly my only real gripe about the game were the sidequests being mostly fluff, but the vast majority were all completely optional anyways.
 

a c i d.f l y

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The problem with Square Enix and making action games, is that they just fucking suck ass at it. Really started at 13. The intricacies of the paradigm system flowed well enough. It just got obnoxious trying to farm. "Why can't I auto this spawn over and over?" When you had to run this 23 aerial combo bullshit to kill a single good xp mob. It was like how Blizzard did BFA. Designed the game with all your abilities, then cut back on em. So your play feels like shit until you get a solid set of combos with the various paradigm shifts.

XIV is XIV, I didn't really play it much, just enough to know it was 100x better than XI. Kind of a different genre for combat from what I'd call "action".

XV with its Press the X Button simulator, if you want to call that "action".

VII Remake, you can tell they're coming to grips with converting their ideas into usable, real world actions, though it's still clunky as fuck, simplistic as fuck, where even on Hard the combat was still mostly a joke. One thing that makes or breaks a game for me is how the controls work. Precision, think Mario 64. Or "clunky" and unforgiving like The Witcher? It was more towards the clunky side, but didn't have enough monster density to let you really get comfortable fighting. Nothing lasted long enough, except for big boss fights that were pretty critical about movement and proper spells, in a way it ends up being a lot to chew on in the moment. And it was very short. So playing the whole thing never gave that comforting satisfaction when you level, gear, and feel like a badass in combat. Remake also made me hate Aerith, love Jessie, become ambivalent about the main character, and generally not care about the story because they decided to fuck it all up. Though the graphics and emotional response fried my brain when I watched that opening cinematic for the first time, just like it did back in 1997.

Going back to XIII, I really didn't mind the combat, it's just that *everything else* was flat stupid or ridiculous. Levels and areas were pretty uninspired. Characters were pretty much all annoying. And the pink hair, woke, girl power that carried over from X-2. Speaking of, for a game whose story is completely inconsequential, X-2 had the last solid combat experience that wasn't quite turn base, wasn't quite action, that played really well, and in an interesting manner. Like a grown up version of X.

My impressions of this video? Pathetic. Square usually nails these teasers, I mean shit even the one for 12 was goddamn amazing, nailed the aesthetic, intrigue, even with its chibi and bunny ears. Unfortunately for 12, like 8, the real enemy is pretty detached from the story until the very end. I like that unique, weird shit that's present in most good FF. 12 combat was just an automation simulator, you didn't even have to do anything during combat if you set it up well enough. That's very poor design.

This is a scratch video that shows off poor animation, modeling is fine, texturing is plastic and poorly done in a lot of places. You can clearly see the Devil May Cry combat aspect, which I assume means it's going to play like XV'ish. The aesthetic feels like XV. I didn't like pretty much anything about XV. MMO trash style. It's also loaded with MEMBA BERRIES: Ifirit, Shiva, Malboro, castles, oh goody crystals! Memba those from FFV? Capped off with 2010's gritty, somber version of the FF theme. To be fair, the crystals were apart of nearly every game, even if they weren't specifically named such, or used for the same purpose - like material, espers, etc.

FF1: Castles, getting killed by sharks on a ship in the first 15 minutes. Lots of farming menial shit. Pure turn based. No action meter. Regular leveling by killing monsters.
FF2 (J): More of the same, but with leveling by using abilities or weapons.
FF3 (J): Same as 1, with JOB system.
FF4: Fully realizes the last 3 games. Best experienced on the PSP.
FF5 (J): FF4 with job system. Best experienced on the GBA.
FF6: Another leap, graphically, but a very different aesthetic. Still pretty solid turn based.
FF7: Weapon equipped materia, again with the psuedo ancient/future aesthetic, Midgar like a future "castle". Somewhere in the previous games, the turn meter was added, and 7 added the action meter, making combat more "active". Limit meter.
FF8: Only real change was sucking spells out of shit. Card game. Very modern aesthetic.
FF9: Simplified combat compared to 7 and 8. Very fantasy mixed with castles and knights and shit.
FF10: Introduced the sphere grid.
FF11: MMO. Very FF aesthetic, but Wii graphics.
FF12: Combat automation. Interesting visual aesthetic. Not properly realized, since it released on the cusp of the PS3 overtaking the PS2.
FF13: Active combat, paradigm shifting, paradigm assignments sort of like having various available "jobs" per character. Combos. Aerial attacks.
FF14: MMO. Again, very FF aesthetic. Late gen PS3 graphics.
FF15: What even is the combat. I played 20 hours just spamming the x button. Maybe a dash here or there. Modern fantasy - cars and castles.
FF7R: Active combat, synergies with different characters. Forced, limited team dynamics. Made the sun shine in Midgar slums (artificially).
 
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ZyyzYzzy

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The problem with Square Enix and making action games, is that they just fucking suck ass at it. Really started at 13. The intricacies of the paradigm system flowed well enough. It just got obnoxious trying to farm. "Why can't I auto this spawn over and over?" When you had to run this 23 aerial combo bullshit to kill a single good xp mob. It was like how Blizzard did BFA. Designed the game with all your abilities, then cut back on em. So your play feels like shit until you get a solid set of combos with the various paradigm shifts.

XIV is XIV, I didn't really play it much, just enough to know it was 100x better than XI. Kind of a different genre for combat from what I'd call "action".

XV with its Press the X Button simulator, if you want to call that "action".

VII Remake, you can tell they're coming to grips with converting their ideas into usable, real world actions, though it's still clunky as fuck, simplistic as fuck, where even on Hard the combat was still mostly a joke. One thing that makes or breaks a game for me is how the controls work. Precision, think Mario 64. Or "clunky" and unforgiving like The Witcher? It was more towards the clunky side, but didn't have enough monster density to let you really get comfortable fighting. Nothing lasted long enough, except for big boss fights that were pretty critical about movement and proper spells, in a way it ends up being a lot to chew on in the moment. And it was very short. So playing the whole thing never gave that comforting satisfaction when you level, gear, and feel like a badass in combat. Remake also made me hate Aerith, love Jessie, become ambivalent about the main character, and generally not care about the story because they decided to fuck it all up. Though the graphics and emotional response fried my brain when I watched that opening cinematic for the first time, just like it did back in 1997.

Going back to XIII, I really didn't mind the combat, it's just that *everything else* was flat stupid or ridiculous. Levels and areas were pretty uninspired. Characters were pretty much all annoying. And the pink hair, woke, girl power that carried over from X-2. Speaking of, for a game whose story is completely inconsequential, X-2 had the last solid combat experience that wasn't quite turn base, wasn't quite action, that played really well, and in an interesting manner. Like a grown up version of X.

My impressions of this video? Pathetic. Square usually nails these teasers, I mean shit even the one for 12 was goddamn amazing, nailed the aesthetic, intrigue, even with its chibi and bunny ears. Unfortunately for 12, like 8, the real enemy is pretty detached from the story until the very end. I like that unique, weird shit that's present in most good FF. 12 combat was just an automation simulator, you didn't even have to do anything during combat if you set it up well enough. That's very poor design.

This is a scratch video that shows off poor animation, modeling is fine, texturing is plastic and poorly done in a lot of places. You can clearly see the Devil May Cry combat aspect, which I assume means it's going to play like XV'ish. The aesthetic feels like XV. I didn't like pretty much anything about XV. MMO trash style. It's also loaded with MEMBA BERRIES: Ifirit, Shiva, Malboro, castles, oh goody crystals! Memba those from FFV? Capped off with 2010's gritty, somber version of the FF theme. To be fair, the crystals were apart of nearly every game, even if they weren't specifically named such, or used for the same purpose - like material, espers, etc.

FF1: Castles, getting killed by sharks on a ship in the first 15 minutes. Lots of farming menial shit. Pure turn based. No action meter. Regular leveling by killing monsters.
FF2 (J): More of the same, but with leveling by using abilities or weapons.
FF3 (J): Same as 1, with JOB system.
FF4: Fully realizes the last 3 games. Best experienced on the PSP.
FF5 (J): FF4 with job system. Best experienced on the GBA.
FF6: Another leap, graphically, but a very different aesthetic. Still pretty solid turn based.
FF7: Weapon equipped materia, again with the psuedo ancient/future aesthetic, Midgar like a future "castle". Somewhere in the previous games, the turn meter was added, and 7 added the action meter, making combat more "active". Limit meter.
FF8: Only real change was sucking spells out of shit. Card game. Very modern aesthetic.
FF9: Simplified combat compared to 7 and 8. Very fantasy mixed with castles and knights and shit.
FF10: Introduced the sphere grid.
FF11: MMO. Very FF aesthetic, but Wii graphics.
FF12: Combat automation. Interesting visual aesthetic. Not properly realized, since it released on the cusp of the PS3 overtaking the PS2.
FF13: Active combat, paradigm shifting, paradigm assignments sort of like having various available "jobs" per character. Combos. Aerial attacks.
FF14: MMO. Again, very FF aesthetic. Late gen PS3 graphics.
FF15: What even is the combat. I played 20 hours just spamming the x button. Maybe a dash here or there. Modern fantasy - cars and castles.
FF7R: Active combat, synergies with different characters. Forced, limited team dynamics. Made the sun shine in Midgar slums (artificially).
Great post, ypu left off the best FF game though. FFT
 
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a c i d.f l y

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Great post, ypu left off the best FF game though. FFT
Tactics is really a whole other genre, and I can't say I've played one that I've really enjoyed. Not sure what it is about that style of game play. Something I might actually enjoy now that I'm older. It's not for lack of trying. Dating back to Ogre Tactics, to Xcom. I know people love FFT, and oft tout it as the best ____.
 
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Merrith

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Tactics was great. Not at the top of my list, but it's definitely Top 3 or Top 5. JP Scroll Glitch ups replay value considerably if you don't like grinding out all the job abilities.
 

Phazael

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Who needs that when you can just beeline for Dancers or Bards? But yeah I guess if I were ever going to play the remastered one I would not want to fucking grind out Dark Knight on characters again.
 

joz123

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The problem with Square Enix and making action games, is that they just fucking suck ass at it. Really started at 13. The intricacies of the paradigm system flowed well enough. It just got obnoxious trying to farm. "Why can't I auto this spawn over and over?" When you had to run this 23 aerial combo bullshit to kill a single good xp mob. It was like how Blizzard did BFA. Designed the game with all your abilities, then cut back on em. So your play feels like shit until you get a solid set of combos with the various paradigm shifts.

XIV is XIV, I didn't really play it much, just enough to know it was 100x better than XI. Kind of a different genre for combat from what I'd call "action".

XV with its Press the X Button simulator, if you want to call that "action".

VII Remake, you can tell they're coming to grips with converting their ideas into usable, real world actions, though it's still clunky as fuck, simplistic as fuck, where even on Hard the combat was still mostly a joke. One thing that makes or breaks a game for me is how the controls work. Precision, think Mario 64. Or "clunky" and unforgiving like The Witcher? It was more towards the clunky side, but didn't have enough monster density to let you really get comfortable fighting. Nothing lasted long enough, except for big boss fights that were pretty critical about movement and proper spells, in a way it ends up being a lot to chew on in the moment. And it was very short. So playing the whole thing never gave that comforting satisfaction when you level, gear, and feel like a badass in combat. Remake also made me hate Aerith, love Jessie, become ambivalent about the main character, and generally not care about the story because they decided to fuck it all up. Though the graphics and emotional response fried my brain when I watched that opening cinematic for the first time, just like it did back in 1997.

Going back to XIII, I really didn't mind the combat, it's just that *everything else* was flat stupid or ridiculous. Levels and areas were pretty uninspired. Characters were pretty much all annoying. And the pink hair, woke, girl power that carried over from X-2. Speaking of, for a game whose story is completely inconsequential, X-2 had the last solid combat experience that wasn't quite turn base, wasn't quite action, that played really well, and in an interesting manner. Like a grown up version of X.

My impressions of this video? Pathetic. Square usually nails these teasers, I mean shit even the one for 12 was goddamn amazing, nailed the aesthetic, intrigue, even with its chibi and bunny ears. Unfortunately for 12, like 8, the real enemy is pretty detached from the story until the very end. I like that unique, weird shit that's present in most good FF. 12 combat was just an automation simulator, you didn't even have to do anything during combat if you set it up well enough. That's very poor design.

This is a scratch video that shows off poor animation, modeling is fine, texturing is plastic and poorly done in a lot of places. You can clearly see the Devil May Cry combat aspect, which I assume means it's going to play like XV'ish. The aesthetic feels like XV. I didn't like pretty much anything about XV. MMO trash style. It's also loaded with MEMBA BERRIES: Ifirit, Shiva, Malboro, castles, oh goody crystals! Memba those from FFV? Capped off with 2010's gritty, somber version of the FF theme. To be fair, the crystals were apart of nearly every game, even if they weren't specifically named such, or used for the same purpose - like material, espers, etc.

FF1: Castles, getting killed by sharks on a ship in the first 15 minutes. Lots of farming menial shit. Pure turn based. No action meter. Regular leveling by killing monsters.
FF2 (J): More of the same, but with leveling by using abilities or weapons.
FF3 (J): Same as 1, with JOB system.
FF4: Fully realizes the last 3 games. Best experienced on the PSP.
FF5 (J): FF4 with job system. Best experienced on the GBA.
FF6: Another leap, graphically, but a very different aesthetic. Still pretty solid turn based.
FF7: Weapon equipped materia, again with the psuedo ancient/future aesthetic, Midgar like a future "castle". Somewhere in the previous games, the turn meter was added, and 7 added the action meter, making combat more "active". Limit meter.
FF8: Only real change was sucking spells out of shit. Card game. Very modern aesthetic.
FF9: Simplified combat compared to 7 and 8. Very fantasy mixed with castles and knights and shit.
FF10: Introduced the sphere grid.
FF11: MMO. Very FF aesthetic, but Wii graphics.
FF12: Combat automation. Interesting visual aesthetic. Not properly realized, since it released on the cusp of the PS3 overtaking the PS2.
FF13: Active combat, paradigm shifting, paradigm assignments sort of like having various available "jobs" per character. Combos. Aerial attacks.
FF14: MMO. Again, very FF aesthetic. Late gen PS3 graphics.
FF15: What even is the combat. I played 20 hours just spamming the x button. Maybe a dash here or there. Modern fantasy - cars and castles.
FF7R: Active combat, synergies with different characters. Forced, limited team dynamics. Made the sun shine in Midgar slums (artificially).
13 was a good idea but executed terribly. Every fight for about the first 20 hours of gameplay felt like a boss. 13-2 was way better and the monster recruiting was great.
 
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Kriptini

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XV with its Press the X Button simulator, if you want to call that "action".

This could not be more incorrect. With weapon swapping, air combos, and perfect phases you could do some absolutely nutty things in this game.

 
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Barellron

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So did the game teach you or require you to fight like that to win or is that just some fancy shit people figured out after the fact?
 

Asshat wormie

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This could not be more incorrect. With weapon swapping, air combos, and perfect phases you could do some absolutely nutty things in this game.

Can’t think of a less appealing thing for a FF game. Jesus glad I didn’t spent money on this garbage.
 
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a c i d.f l y

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So did the game teach you or require you to fight like that to win or is that just some fancy shit people figured out after the fact?
Sort of, and no, not really. At least, not in the 20'ish hours that I could stand playing. That warp->slash ability is basically two buttons, one button to warp, the other to slash. Targeting and specific ability are based on joystick directions. I was obviously oversimplifying what it is, but it plays clunky. It's like if someone tried to copy Devil May Cry, but is actually its retarded little brother with fucked up timing, a little unforgiving on chains, and annoying and lacking in satisfaction - the guy does all these fancy moves to kill a simple trash mob for 3 XP. And you do the same thing on bosses.

The car management, map, characters (save tits mcgee at the gas station), even the music felt ...off. Like, I hated most of FF XIII, while FF XV left almost no impression other than I just felt incredibly bored playing it.
 

Barellron

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Ok, thanks for clarifying.

So if it's not required for victory, and from the looks of it the enemies don't even react to being attacked in that way, then it's equivalent to speedrunner shenanigans - ie. it's not part of the basic combat loop for people with un-mangled genitalia.
 

Rude

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Can’t think of a less appealing thing for a FF game. Jesus glad I didn’t spent money on this garbage.
I wasted twenty bucks on it sadly. Won't be bothering with 16 barring some miracle. 15 was shit. Hold x and win. Magic was utter trash, didn't even use it. I also played it thoroughly enough to kill that turtle that was the size of a mountain. Not sure if I did it because the platinum didn't seem difficult to get or what the deal was there.