Final Fantasy 16

joz123 · Sep 23, 2020

Enob said:
My interpretation of the ending to 9 is that it's the beginning of the Final Fantasy universe/multiverse.

In Memoria, you keep going back in time until you get to the Crystal that is the singularity before the FF big bang. When Kuja Ultima nukes the singularity to try and end everything, the party wakes up on the hill of despair which is an outside of time and space purgatory nothingness thing.

There they encounter Necron as the embodiment of death. If the party loses, the crystal is destroyed and the big bang doesn't happen, or even have ever had the capacity TO happen. If the party wins, Ultima hits the crystal and big bangs the FF universe into existence.

This is also a way to tie in all the nostalgia throwbacks cleverly to the story. Like the buster sword being on the wall of the weapon shop in Lindblum wasn't just a fan service callback. The FF9 world was shattered to become the rest of the universe/multiverse so the FF7 buster sword was the "memory" of that weapon from 9.

It's actually pretty ironic that Lenas turned the game off and quit after losing to Necron once as that was symbolically the characters' dilemma also. Would be even more fitting if you never played any FF ever again lol.

As far as the story importance of summons, they are either very important to the world building or absolutely essential to the stories in 4, 6, 9, 10, and 15. The rest they're mostly a common theme. In some you just find Leviathan in the basement of a weapon shop or something and no mention is ever made. In 6 the entire esper race and their relationship to the warring triad is a huge part of the plot and every esper has a place in the story. Many are still inconsequential but at least were part of a research experiment or in Ramuh's party that gave up their lives for you. Then Terra is half esper and it's her entire character arc with her parents, her dad being temporarily playable and then later summonable.

Totally down for 17 being the tie in to 10 and 7. They're already a part of the same solar system/universe and with how beloved both games are to fans, would print money.

Us FF lore nerds showing our colors in here. It's still a JRPG series so it doesn't make total sense but it's not as bad as you're all saying.

Now explain how FF Mystic Quest ties in with the rest of the series.

Ritley · Sep 23, 2020

Look at all these fucking nerds trying to argue about nonsensical FF plots

kaid · Sep 23, 2020

Ritley said:
Look at all these fucking nerds trying to argue about nonsensical FF plots

Ff14 amused me with the three tutorial recaps on their soul nonsense at the end of arr even the writers thought nobody was following the wack story.

Cybsled · Sep 23, 2020

FF14 at least has an in-game lore reason to explain that there is a multiverse and the other FF games happen in those other worlds.

Chris · Sep 24, 2020

Enob said:
My interpretation of the ending to 9 is that it's the beginning of the Final Fantasy universe/multiverse.

In Memoria, you keep going back in time until you get to the Crystal that is the singularity before the FF big bang. When Kuja Ultima nukes the singularity to try and end everything, the party wakes up on the hill of despair which is an outside of time and space purgatory nothingness thing.

There they encounter Necron as the embodiment of death. If the party loses, the crystal is destroyed and the big bang doesn't happen, or even have ever had the capacity TO happen. If the party wins, Ultima hits the crystal and big bangs the FF universe into existence.

This is also a way to tie in all the nostalgia throwbacks cleverly to the story. Like the buster sword being on the wall of the weapon shop in Lindblum wasn't just a fan service callback. The FF9 world was shattered to become the rest of the universe/multiverse so the FF7 buster sword was the "memory" of that weapon from 9.

It's actually pretty ironic that Lenas turned the game off and quit after losing to Necron once as that was symbolically the characters' dilemma also. Would be even more fitting if you never played any FF ever again lol.

As far as the story importance of summons, they are either very important to the world building or absolutely essential to the stories in 4, 6, 9, 10, and 15. The rest they're mostly a common theme. In some you just find Leviathan in the basement of a weapon shop or something and no mention is ever made. In 6 the entire esper race and their relationship to the warring triad is a huge part of the plot and every esper has a place in the story. Many are still inconsequential but at least were part of a research experiment or in Ramuh's party that gave up their lives for you. Then Terra is half esper and it's her entire character arc with her parents, her dad being temporarily playable and then later summonable.

Totally down for 17 being the tie in to 10 and 7. They're already a part of the same solar system/universe and with how beloved both games are to fans, would print money.

Us FF lore nerds showing our colors in here. It's still a JRPG series so it doesn't make total sense but it's not as bad as you're all saying.

Would be have great if that was actually in the game!

Grizzlebeard · Sep 24, 2020

Were there ever storyline pre-determined fight outcomes before FF9 came along? I seem to remember getting really hacked off by the number of times I was winning a fight only to be slapped down from out of nowhere by eyepatch knight girl.

Hateyou · Sep 24, 2020

Grizzlebeard said:
Were there ever storyline pre-determined fight outcomes before FF9 came along? I seem to remember getting really hacked off by the number of times I was winning a fight only to be slapped down from out of nowhere by eyepatch knight girl.

Yes. There were lots of fights in FF4 you couldn’t win, they were just scripted story fights. You could make them longer by being higher level but couldn’t win. The summoner village right at the beginning, fighting Kain later, one or two Golbez fights, Tellah vs. Edward, The Tellah death scene, and maybe some I’m forgetting. They had a lot, that game had a ton of story scripts. I’m guessing every game at least starting there and beyond had them.

Tarisk · Sep 24, 2020

Hateyou said:
.. one or two Golbez fights,..

Ever have one of those memories from childhood that just triggers you? You just brought one back. For some reason in one of my early FF4 playthroughs, the Golbez fight after Calcabrina bugged out. He would weaken my characters and even kill me and Rydia would never show up. I just got to get killed over and over until I went back to a previous save or restart.

I think one of the guys from the Nintento hotline in Redmond recommended I save twice/make use 2 save slots every time I saved.

Falstaff · Sep 24, 2020

I still have nightmares about the six dolls that become one fight.

Cybsled · Sep 24, 2020

Falstaff said:
I still have nightmares about the six dolls that become one fight.

Rajaah · Sep 24, 2020

Enob said:
Totally down for 17 being the tie in to 10 and 7. They're already a part of the same solar system/universe and with how beloved both games are to fans, would print money.

Us FF lore nerds showing our colors in here. It's still a JRPG series so it doesn't make total sense but it's not as bad as you're all saying.

FF4: The After Years gets into this a bit. You go through a massive space-dungeon and fight this Creator guy and it's implied that he created a ton of the foes from the other games and spread them throughout the cosmos. Which gives them a great reason to have bosses from the first six games sprinkled all over the space-dungeon as the Creator re-constitutes them to fight you.

It would be awesome if they retconned the FF games together as all being in the same universe, really canon-ized After Years. They could tell us which games took place on the same world and try to have it make sense. FF9 can be at an origin/nexus point and pre-date the others. FF1/3/5 on one world, FFT/Vagrant Story/FF12 on another. Maybe FF2/4 are in the same Empire-dominated world and far apart in time, FF8/13 are on one really technologically-advanced world (the moon stuff that happens in 8 ends up creating Gran Pulse or whatever). 15/6 are the same world with 15 being the "War of the Magi" that 6 mentioned and making 15 a prequel to it. 11/14/16/Type-0 could be another perpetually at war world. Last but not least, 7/10/17 can all tie together and they can actually write it that way as they're making it, which would instantly make 17 super interesting.

Tarisk said:
Ever have one of those memories from childhood that just triggers you? You just brought one back. For some reason in one of my early FF4 playthroughs, the Golbez fight after Calcabrina bugged out. He would weaken my characters and even kill me and Rydia would never show up. I just got to get killed over and over until I went back to a previous save or restart.

I think one of the guys from the Nintento hotline in Redmond recommended I save twice/make use 2 save slots every time I saved.

The first time I rented FF7 (after months of agonizing wait) I got to the Diamond Weapon fight, and every time I'd win the fight the game would freeze during the cutscene after it. Sometimes the game would get a little further with the cutscene before it froze, so I kept at it. I must have done the entire Diamond Weapon fight 6 or 7 times before I gave up and returned it and had to wait until I could buy it. That scene still triggers me. So does the Velius fight in FFT for similar game-ending reasons, we know what those are.

Hateyou said:
I honestly thought it was paying homage to some of the older games. I remember the final boss of final fantasy IV being a “wtf?” moment. Just out of nowhere “I’ve been pulling the strings of everything this whole time and I haven’t been mentioned before this” Also I am massive and way bigger than the first thing you fought that I crawled out of.

I was expecting Culex to be the final boss of FF4, so I was expecting something out of nowhere. Seriously. I played FF6 and Mario RPG first, so it's an understatement to say I was beyond stoked to go back and play FF4. Especially considering it was all over the internet that Mario RPG's "Dark Knight Culex" was an FF4 export. So I expected him to be the villain. When I played FF4 I waited for Culex to show up for the entire game. Figured he was Golbez's secret boss. Then at the end we get Zemus and Zeromus and I was just sorta like "huh". Figured Culex must be a hidden boss, so I looked all around in Lunar Subterrane for any hidden rooms. Actually did find a boss that I'd missed, Wyvern (Dark Bahamut) I think. But no Culex. Still wondering wtf was up with Culex and all of the misinformation about him at the time.

Chris said:
I never got to the end of FF4 as my emulator corrupted my save file, but it sounds like what FF8 also did.

FF4 is worth a replay. I just did one recently for giggles and discovered that the game is like ten hours long now. And that's without fast-forwarding. The American SNES version is short and super-easy compared to the later versions (Japanese, Advance, DS etc). I even took another few hours and grinded to level 99 trying to get a Pink Tail (nada).

Fadaar · Sep 24, 2020

Rajaah said:
The first time I rented FF7 (after months of agonizing wait) I got to the Diamond Weapon fight, and every time I'd win the fight the game would freeze during the cutscene after it. Sometimes the game would get a little further with the cutscene before it froze, so I kept at it. I must have done the entire Diamond Weapon fight 6 or 7 times before I gave up and returned it and had to wait until I could buy it. That scene still triggers me. So does the Velius fight in FFT for similar game-ending reasons, we know what those are.

I had to borrow a friend's disc for a similar issue in I think FF8. Shit like that makes me not miss physical discs being required.

Koushirou · Sep 24, 2020

Is there some actual lore reason for people linking FF7 and 10 together or is it more just fan wishful thinking?

Hateyou · Sep 24, 2020

Rajaah said:
They could tell us which games took place on the same world and try to have it make sense.

Man they can’t even make a single FF make sense within itself, it would take some serious fucking brainpower and stretches to tie them all together.

I’ve never played FF4: After years, is it good or just a gimmick to play old bosses? I haven’t played many FF offshoots. After 8 I was pretty meh overall with FF and they’ve lost me pretty hard with the action game direction they’ve switched to. So I haven’t really spent any time looking into games I’ve missed from the series over the years.

Chris · Sep 24, 2020

Koushirou said:
Is there some actual lore reason for people linking FF7 and 10 together or is it more just fan wishful thinking?

In FFX-2 there's a character called Shinra who, as an easter egg, mentions wanting to experiment with something like Mako power. But then the scenario writer fucking confirmed it as canon that people from FFX later travelled to the planet FF7 is on lol.

In FF7R in the President Shinra museum, there's a group picture of early Shinra employees and one, maybe even President Shinra himself, is the chatacter model of Shinra from FFX-2. It's just trolling though, the timeline doesn't match up.

TLDR: It's a joke.

Hateyou · Sep 24, 2020

Chris said:
In FFX-2 there's a character called Shinra who, as an easter egg, mentions wanting to experiment with something like Mako power. But then the scenario writer fucking confirmed it as canon that people from FFX later travelled to the planet FF7 is on lol.

In FF7R in the President Shinra museum, there's a group picture of early Shinra employees and one, maybe even President Shinra himself, is the chatacter model of Shinra from FFX-2. It's just trolling though, the timeline doesn't match up.

TLDR: It's a joke.

How does the timeline not match up? Is there a final fantasy universe calendar and times tracked when each game takes place?

Axiel · Sep 24, 2020

Hateyou said:
How does the timeline not match up? Is there a final fantasy universe calendar and times tracked when each game takes place?

FF7 had to be a long, long time after X or there'd be monuments of their saviors from a 1000 year oppressor everywhere.

spronk · Sep 24, 2020

i can't wait for final fantasy 1111111111111111

wormie · Sep 24, 2020

spronk said:
i can't wait for final fantasy 1111111111111111

Damn, FF65535 feels kind of far away.

Rajaah · Sep 24, 2020

Hateyou said:
Man they can’t even make a single FF make sense within itself, it would take some serious fucking brainpower and stretches to tie them all together.

I’ve never played FF4: After years, is it good or just a gimmick to play old bosses? I haven’t played many FF offshoots. After 8 I was pretty meh overall with FF and they’ve lost me pretty hard with the action game direction they’ve switched to. So I haven’t really spent any time looking into games I’ve missed from the series over the years.

After Years is definitely one of the better FF spinoffs. Can play it on Wii with really old-school graphics or you can play it on PSP with enhancements. Think it's on a few other systems and phones too, but it might be a 3D version, dunno. Make sure you play the 2D version because it looking like FF4 is kinda the point. I played it on Wii and again on PSP myself.

You get a bunch of character scenarios (6 I think) that you can do in any order like a SaGa game. Each has a main character, but you get other characters as well. One has you play as Golbez, one has Cecil and Rosa's son, one has grown-up Hot Porom, one has Rydia, etc. Enjoyed all of them except the one where you have to play as Edward. After they're all done, you go to the final chapter which is the super-massive space dungeon with like 30 floors or something and tons of boss fights. Half of the game kinda takes place in that one giant dungeon, and the six? character scenarios function more as intro chapters so you can power up your characters and have them not get wasted in the final chapter. Overall I might find it more fun than FF4 because you can mix and match all of your party members at the end to form your own super-group of FF4 alumnus.

Can't think of any FF spinoff I enjoyed more actually. I've played every FF and spinoff at this point except for FF Dimensions (the phone game that feels like an FF5 sequel). I should get on that.

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