Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

I think this thread is split between people who played FFXI and have (painful) experience of S-E's thought processes and those who didn't and are trying to apply a WoW tier logic to the content releases. Saying that, even EQ released non-raiding/max level content. Luclin, LDoN, Ykesha, etc. Just because it's new doesn't mean it has to be progression from the previously released content.

I'm not disagreeing that there needs to be more to engage people at max level but going from experience of S-E that is usually achieved by artificial lockouts (zone timers/tome caps) and punch-in-the-balls painful drop rates.

My biggest gripe right now is the pitiful choice of levelling additional jobs. Fate grinding isn't cutting it for me and I don't see how the addition of daily quests is going to significantly alleviate that. It'd be far simpler to massively boost the exp gained from duties. Exp gain in FFXI was awful as well and they had dailies but the difference there was the players were expected to party to grind exp and it was rewarding to do so. There is really no mechanic in place in this game to encourage or reward party play outside of duties. Granted, the class depth is comical compared to FFXI. Look at the arsenal of spells a Blm had in that game compared to ARR. I don't think there's a single class in FFXIV that feels meaty ability-wise. I feel like I'm playing in a familiar world but using a character from a tablet-based game.

Is that true? I haven't played WoW for years but when I played MC was at release, they added a pug-able dungeon in like the 40's, then BWL, AQ, Naxx. Each one progressively getting harder. I guess you could argue MC was about equal to BWL's difficulty.

While I think it's weird to release a lower tier (this early into the game especially), I just find it more odd that the raid sizes are all different. I don't know what that's supposed to achieve.

It feels like another case of where FFXIV mostly copies the WoW model for damn near everything, but does it a little worse often enough (see: ability responsiveness, telegraph funkiness, loot tables, etc). Sure, WoW has different raid sizes, but all raids support those sizes.

Having one tier be 24 man, then the next tier up be 8 man is just....that's just dumb.

I'd very much like something like a big xps bonus in a duty when leveling lower classes/jobs.

Would personally enjoy trying all the different dungeons as different classes and also would make the finder pop quicker for everyone.

Maybe thrown in Gil bonus also.

Bruman_sl said:

Having one tier be 24 man, then the next tier up be 8 man is just....that's just dumb.

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Haven't played WoW since the end of Cata, but the raiding scene there was quickly compressing down from 25man to 10man there also. Running a logistical operation to support a 25 man is a huge chore, and was shitawful for 40 mans back in the day.

The point of the 25-man LFR style raids is so people can casually jump into it without being having massive queue times due to the ratio disparity of DPS:Healer:Tank that you find in Trinity-MMO's.

http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/21/tg...sh-translation

i have said this every time but, FFXIV ARR just started and this Binding Coil of Bahamut is like a mountain in which no one have climbed before, as time goes on this mountain will have hills which makes it into more of a hiking course.

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YoshiP said this recently at TGS, and again it's not really different than what you see with WoW. They release some moderately difficult raiding tier, that eventually has a heroic mode, and also pug-able mode that everyone can participate in to catch up with their friends or get welfare epics. The only difference in this specific case is it isn't The Fall of Deathwing LFR/Normal/Heroic.

axeman_sl said:

Listen, I'm not just making this shit up.

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Not saying you're making shit up. Just taking issue with the poor assertion you make to trash on the game because you whip out some quote made 2-3 months ago that went through 2-3 cultural/language barriers about design intent as if it were absolute and etched in stone.

axeman_sl said:

Sometimes I think most of this forum's userbase is just here to disagree with everything for the sake of it.

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Lol.

Yeah dungeon exp needs to be increased - or give a bonus for queueing for random dungeons.

InterSlayer_sl said:

Haven't played WoW since the end of Cata, but the raiding scene there was quickly compressing down from 25man to 10man there also. Running a logistical operation to support a 25 man is a huge chore, and was shitawful for 40 mans back in the day.

The point of the 25-man LFR style raids is so people can casually jump into it without being having massive queue times due to the ratio disparity of DPS:Healer:Tank that you find in Trinity-MMO's.

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Is CT going to be through the Duty Finder?

The difference with WoW (last time I played was even before you - start of Cata) is that all raids were scalable. That's my point. If you wanted to progress "as designed" through the tiers, the size goes 4man (dungeons), 8man (last story raids, hm primals), 24 man (CT), then back to 8man (BC). That's what doesn't make sense.

WoW is doing it much better, as usual.

And of course 10 mans are phasing out 25 mans in WoW. It's much easier to find 9 other people to play with than 24 other people. Just like 24 is easier than 39 other people (WoW launch raiding), which was easier than the 50-75 other people (EQ raiding when WoW launched). But that's all besides the point - they're not phasing out anything. They're preventing (or at least making it difficult) for a guild to progress through raiding tiers together. My raiding guild in WoW actually broke up when our 25 man group could no longer really progress in hard modes, because of too many shitty players. We started doing some of it as a 10 man, which just added drama and cliques, and reaaaally pissed off the people who weren't good enough to keep going on (although we were kinda sick of carrying them too).

It's still early in FFXIV's life though, they have time to fix it, I just still don't see the logic of a 24-man raid in this game. Maybe I'm missing the bigger picture.

CT is, by design, for the Duty Finder. Premades in allagan will crush through it.

Alkorin_sl said:

I don't understand the confusion here. This has been the model in WoW for years, axeman. Content is released that will be doable only by the high end of the player base. The next major patch includes content with loot that will help the lesser plebs do the higher end content, and also even harder content for those that have already progressed to the end of the existing stuff.

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This is definitely not "how WoW has done it for years." This would be like if WoW had launched WotLK with an untuned Ulduar that wasn't meant to be doable and so most people didn't, but the hardcore raid guilds did, and then Naxx wasn't released until months later. It would fuck everything up because those who did Ulduar would have little interest in then doing Naxx afterwards but would have to wait until ToGC for more progression, yet can't be sligthed for having done Ulduar early because it was the only raid content available for months, while those who didn't do it early are robbed of the opportunity to do it when it's new, yet can't be slighted for not having done it early because they basically weren't supposed to. As a consequence, the competitive part of progression will be fucked for both sides. I highly doubt that the new primal fights will provide much progression material.

Is it that difficult to understand? I think I'm expressing myself very plainly. There's no fucking confusion except on the part of people who refuse to acknowledge that the content was released out of order and keep trying to insist that it was always intended this way and therefore nothing can be wrong with it, arguing from a platform of assuming that CT isn't supposed to precede BC and is just filler newbie content despite my repeatedly pointing out that this is not the case. This forum has always had a naysayer atmosphere, but it really is getting to the point of denying that water is wet just for the sake of being contrary.

I have not read every post, but Im pretty sure any post worth replying to is not denying it was intended to be released at the same time. CT was originally planned to be in on release. They delayed it last minute.

I don't believe that's his point, Alkorin. I think there's still value in them releasing the content too.

However, his point is not that, I don't believe. It seems that others, including yourself, is saying this is the INTENTIONAL plan on their behalf, when it's not. They fucked up. They MEANT to release this at launch. They had to change it. This is not their intended release order. And that's not an opinion - that's a fact. His opinion comes into play with it being pointless to now do so.

I think the extravagant, over-written complaint is the reason for the nay saying. If you're going to write an essay it will be picked apart.

Its true that they delayed CT last minute and the biggest problem with it is new BC bosses and other content is most likely being delayed while they finish it up. I really don't think most folks that aren't doing BC care how the tiers go and which has higher ilvl. If they did they would do BC for the 90 gear anyway.

Artifa_sl said:

I think the extravagant, over-written complaint is the reason for the nay saying. If you're going to write an essay it will be picked apart.

Its true that they delayed CT last minute and the biggest problem with it is new BC bosses and other content is most likely being delayed while they finish it up. I really don't think most folks that aren't doing BC care how the tiers go and which has higher ilvl. If they did they would do BC for the 90 gear anyway.

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Agreed. His complaint is valid, but he's just putting a bunch of extra whatever-the-fuck into it. Releasing CT after BC doesn't make any sense, the group sizes are all F'd up. But claiming that people who never did BC won't want to do CT because it's easy for um, other people? Yeah.

Oh, and yeah very few people did end game TBC raiding (sunwell). The reason was not that they just didn't want to gear up to do it. The reason is that it came on pretty late, it was really difficult, and when the next expansion released (scratch that, when the beta for the next expansion started) everyone knew it would be COMPLETELY OBSOLETE!! it's not the grind leading up to it that was obsolete - that progression still had a place. It was Sunwell itself that was made obsolete by the solo quest rewards of the following expansion.

Live Letter is going on right now, looks like next batch of Veteran rewards are FF1 chibi class minions, and then a Behemoth mount.

Man0warr_sl said:

Live Letter is going on right now, looks like next batch of Veteran rewards are FF1 chibi class minions, and then a Behemoth mount.

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AF2 armor looks pretty sweet, new actual model.

Intrinsic_sl said:

Oh is there actual AF2 now? I thought people were just referring to the Myth armor as AF2 and it was just recolored AF1.

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Actual AF2. Other stuff is technically Relic armor I think, who knows though.