Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

I'll never understand why some people feel like they run out of shit to do in this game.

If you aren't sitting at level 60 on every single job (with full 240 gear, mind you), M1-4S cleared, NidEx on farm, farmable mounts collected, every beast tribe rep maxed, crafters/gatherers in fully melded BiS tradeskill gear, and a Relic for every single job completed, you have something to do. Does it get boring to re-do this shit? Sometimes, yeah, but unless you have it all done you don't get to claim there's "nothing to do" simply because you're too lazy to put in the fucking effort.

If you honestly believe FFXIV's end-expansion lull is on the same level as WoW's, you're crazy as shit.

ronne said:

I wound up just making completely new toon, mostly cause I couldn't really figure out what to do at 50 and also so I can be a weeby catboy.

Made it to 15 on lancer and am dicking around on botanist now. I think I want to go rogue/ninja, but I don't see guilds for them anywhere? Are they expansion only?

Click to expand...

The Rogue Guild is in Limsa Lominsa Lower Decks, right by the Fisherman's Guild. You're looking for a building called "The Dutiful Sisters of the Edelweiss" or something.

Yea, like any game when you hit max and there is only 1 raid sure it gets a little boring but I too disagree that this game doesn't have a lot to do. I don't play current WoW so maybe my experience is outdated but I think they are pretty damn near equal. So it comes down to which gameplay/artwork/classes or whatever that you like best.

I remember end game WoW was 1-2 different raids you could do weekly too. How is that any different? We can probably nitpick different areas in each game but as I said, they are fucking close in quality and "polish" and content. What puts me over the edge in FF vs pretty much any game is the one toon many class system. I hate alts, always have and will. But I do like that I can dick around on other classes when bored on the same character. If someone needs me I'm right there on the same account I'm always on and if something cool is going on I can switch back to my "main" instantly. I just wish all games did this from now on. I hate having multiple characters(for friend communication, achievements, factions, and whatever other systems are in the game).

The difference from what I remember in the end-expansion lull in WoW, for example, was that after you clear the raids on WoW, you literally had NOTHING else to do aside from PvP. Tradeskills were easy as balls to get maxed out, so most people who were geared enough to even clear the raids had those already maxed.

My time spent on WoW between mindlessly farming raids, was spent either farming transmog, PvP'ing, or farming old ass reps from previous expansions just for completitions sake. Or doing the exact same thing, on one of the many max level alts (which most people also had). Aside from getting raid loot, I never really felt any sense of accomplishment doing anything else. Sure you could do Challenge mode dungeons until your eyes bled, but what did that actual do in the sense of advancement of your character, aside from bragging rights and MORE transmog?

That's the beauty of FFXIV's system in my mind. Not only is the job system all-in-one-char convenient and superior to having mulitple alts, but SE is smart when it comes to keeping old shit alive. New players having problems leveling via Fates due to a lack of people doing them anymore, whatdo? Launch a seasonal event that requires people to go farm old Fates for new rewards, killing two birds with one stone. Need more people doing lower level dungeons? Implement a weapon questline that makes people farm old dungeons for poes/eso, thus giving bored people something to do, and helping out newer players at the same time. Those are just a few of many examples I could give.

I don't recall seeing this type of synergy anywhere in WoW. It's fucking genius and it's the reason why FFXIV has seen a surge in subs in the past year or more.

I'm not even talking about fucking raids, I'm talking about actually just things to do, IE dungeons, grind points of whatever kind, etc.

FF14 starts every expansion with literally 1-2 dungeons. 1 raid with like 4 bosses, and now heavensward has bounties and shit to do. It's night and fucking day. The fact that neither of you actually have played wow in years is telling. We're not talking about end of expansion lulls, we're talking about BEGINNING of expansion lulls. FF14 is a shit game.

Malakriss said:

I left TOR to come play this again so I am literally laughing IRL right now at your first statement. I'm sure you'll follow up with a qualifier but we all wish even half of the other MMOs out there released content patches as often and consistently as Square.

Even cherry picking the lowest point of their cycle of leveling, progression, and catchups still puts many companies to shame. But we would all love to know which super awesome games you've been playing that are pouring down content by the week.

Click to expand...

Comparing it to TOR isn't doing you any favors - we all know TOR sucks and is a husk of a game.

Square patches often, but adds virtually nothing. A major patch for square is putting in the Asthetician. They usually add 1 more endgame dungeon (A heroic version of a previous dungeon that is, IE: The game launched with 1 or 2, now it has 2 or 3! OH BOY, shit that shoulda been in at launch), like 1 boss to a raid, 1 questline with 5 steps, etc.

Yeah, frequent patches with literally nothing in them.

We both said we have not played WoW in years, so why don't you tell us all about it instead of just claiming we are wrong?

And you are clearly biased in an extremely non-objective way. You don't like the game, that's fine...but patches add nothing?

The last patch added:

-2 max level dungeons
-Entire new "faction"(beast tribes in FFXIV)
-new Raid
-2 new duties(like single boss raid so it's quick)
-a series of new quests(ffxiv does pretty good at quests being nice stories, not collect 10 bear asses)
-upgrade to epic weapon lines
-Treasure hunts, which are like special double group dungeons with good rewards(could just call this another dungeon)
-bunch of new housing/crafting stuff for those people
-new stuff to the casino(gold saucer) for people that dig that
-new pvp encounter
-some new dungeon of the dead thing where you start as level 1 and work your way through floors and xp
-and the typical patch stuff of any MMO, new clothes, mounts, pets, minions, blah blah....

That's just a patch, not a major expansion. You are being completely unfair in your comparisons.

I like how you say 'typical patch stuff' at the end, EVERYTHING YOU LISTED is 'typical patch stuff'

Yeah, FF14 adds new max level dungeons each time, know why? Because they don't have them when expansions launch.

New dungeons? Oh, and now the old ones give less tomestones so that you're actually STILL stuck only doing 2 over and over. That's solid. 1 new dungeon, 1 hardmode every time.

new 'faction'....k?

Like, all of the shit you're listing is stuff that is a lot more meaningless than you give it credit for, and in the case of things like dungeons SHIT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN AT LAUNCH.

Let's look at the last wow patch, a 'bad' patch that had relatively little in the same kinds of dicksucking terms you're putting them:

1 new raid zone, 4 difficulties, 13 bosses.
Mythic dungeons (In FF14 terms, you could say 8 max level dungeons, it's still bullshit to claim that)
3 new reps
Multiple new long questlines, including steps of the legendary ring questline (equivilent to the new story questlines in FF)
A new world zone with dozens of rare mobs and treasures to kill and collect
New vendors to spend Apexis crystals on sweet new gear
A new world boss
Timewalking (Scale yourself down into old dungeons but get level appropriate gear, with their own currency and tons of rewards to earn. Let's call this 18 more MAX LEVEL ENDGAME dungeons since you're that faggoty about what you consider a dungeon addition).
The Shipyard - a major new addition to your garrison, send your ships into battle over the high seas to collect rewards and take back Draenor!

And all the minor shit to be expected wtih any patch (items, crafting upgrades, mounts, pets, etc).

Yeah, even a shitstain patchl ike that sounds epic when you want to make it so, and none of that is wrong, I just presented it as disingenuously as you did. FF14 patches 4 times a year. That Hellfire patch is 4 times as big as an FF14 patch, yet came once in a year, and they got a lot of shit for it. FF14 patches are not as cool as you're trying to present them as being.

What constitutes "shit that should be in at launch" anyway? Would you rather them have given us EVERY SINGLE dungeon we have now at launch, and then go a year+ with NOTHING new because they shot their load all at once?

Even if they did that, and still thought we'd want a new dungeon mid-expansion, what's to stop you from pointing at it and saying THAT should have been in at launch too?

You're just a delusional fuckwad who's trolling for attention. You can't even logically apply that line of thought to anything. FFXIV is a bad game because they give us content on a regular basis, all because you feel that's stuff they should have given us already? Give me a fucking break, dude.

Are you shitting me? Hard mode versions of all of the expansion dungeons should absolutely be in at launch, having TWO available at any given moment that are meaningful is the definition of bullshit. How can you try to defend that?

TheYanger said:

Are you shitting me? Hard mode versions of all of the expansion dungeons should absolutely be in at launch, having TWO available at any given moment that are meaningful is the definition of bullshit. How can you try to defend that?

Click to expand...

I'm going to reiterate a key thing Pyros said in the last post, just so you don't miss this.

Pyros said:

Hard mode is just the name for the dungeons, they're different dungeons, using some of the same assets. It's not like they take an existing dungeon, slap a few mechanics, maybe add a boss, and that's your hard mode. It's a full new dungeon.

Click to expand...

Exactly! Something everyone who's ever stepped foot in those dungeons can attest to.

Yanger, when was the last time you even logged in? I ask this because your gut impulse had you bring up the aesthetician as your first example of "shit content patches" but that was uhhh, a good while ago - almost 3 fucking years ago. To be specific that was actually the very first content patch post re-release? 2.1 I think? That tells me it's impossible to try and reason with you. I pointed out reasons why the end of an expansion in WoW is miles worse than anything FFXIV has ever experienced, and Pyros has done the same which I'm willing to bet you won't even make mention of.

If you hate the game so much, stop shitting up the thread and go back and enjoy your fresh and ever-so-plentiful Legion content (lol). You're not going to convince those of us here who are actually playing the game that the game sucks. And given your completely idiotic view on it, I wouldn't want interested new players seeing your biased opinions either.

chalk me up as another favoring ffxiv as having faster/more content cycles than wow, and by a pretty significant amount. Have played both an equivalent amount of time now. I think if someone is equating / using ffxiv hard modes as a point of comparison/ argument to hard modes in other mmos doesn't really play ffxiv or they would know it's not a valid comparison.
My memory is fuzzy but I think this was the same doofus who angrily defended that terrible wow clone from carbine with the 'rainbow vomit ' art style (credit to kreugen on that one) so some people just have poor taste it's just who they are

FFXIV has a lot of things that suck about it but it's still a really solid game.

FF14 doesn't have 'more' content than wow in any given timeframe, that's my point. You can argue for more well-spaced content, I think wow could learn that lesson, but FF14 has SIGNIFICANTLY less over time than wow, and is flat out a worse game. What else is there to say?

And LOL Kreugen. I had always been af an of his, but he is AWFUL at wow, so it doesn't surprise me he didn't like Wildstar, he would have been the worst player in any raid, bar none.

Tanaan was basically one big daily grind, very much akin to the beast tribe stuff where successive tiers (or in WoW's case, flight in Draenor) was locked behind a daily wall. They didn't actually add a new zone (you could go into it during WoD previously, it just wasn't really populated) so there's definitely some misinformation about what was added to the game. The overwhelmingly large amount of resource expenditure is on landscape creation and melding with other areas, which was done when the xpac was originally released. Adding quests (and there was a paltry amount of actual "quests" in the zone. A few cycling repeatable dailies and that's basically it) is also overstated. Maybe 20 total, all things combined?

theYanger is definitely overstating how much was added in the last WoW content push. Basically, 1/6th of WoD wasn't finished at release, and it took them over a year to add it. FFXIV actually had you use every zone in the expansion prior to the endgame stuff, vs. the relatively static starting area>gorgrond>talador>spires>nagrand progression path that gates content (there's little/no horde content in Shadowmoon Valley, and little/no alliance content in Frostfire Ridge).

I mean it's great to have opinions and all, but I don't think theYanger's is actually based on accurate information.

What are you talking about? Of course I'm overstating how good that patch was, I literally said I was doing that, because I was pointing out that the FF14 bullshit was being overstated. FF14 patches are tiny. Saying 'two new dungeons' when one of them is ALWAYS a rehashed dungeon as a hard mode, when it launches with 2 dungeons, is pretty disingenuous. Similarly, I call Timewalking '18 new dungeons' because it's equally disingenuous. It's something you can do in both cases, but it's bullshit to pretend they're just cranking stuff out.

Not sure what your beef is with one zone being faction specific per faction, "FF14 you got o all the zones while you level"....uh....ok? Yes, since there are no factions or anything one would imagine they don't literally make zones that have no content. Heavensward had 6 zones. They're filled with the same awful fates and quests as the rest of FF14, where only the main storyline actually has compelling content. I enjoy the MSQ stuff in FF14, but the general 'quest design' is abyssmal and stuck firmly in Vanilla era wow mechanics. It doesn't surprise me they can shit out lots of those, and yet I would bet money that there were less quests in Heavensward than in Warlords, by a lot at that.

At this point I'm really confused what you guys are even arguing, does it hurt your feelings that anyone (me) might claim FF14 has small patches? They do. Yes, they do it frequently, that's commendable, but when you try to present a bullet point list that is basically bullshit, I'm going to call it out. You might as well say Guild Wars 2 is the pinnacle of this shit, for dumpstering out a new event every few weeks back in the day that always consisted of meaningless grinds for some new currency and MAYBE once in a blue moon something actually fun to do. Who cares about that shit? At the end of the day, FF14 goes years while adding a few new dungeons and a bunch of pointless quests and epic weapon grinds and other trash. Raiding is a joke, it's not faceroll easy but it's certainly not hard and it's absolutely lacking enough content for anyone to care that much. Grinding dungeons, whether they make them more often or not (they do and they don't, as I've outlined before), tends to always be reduced to 'the two newest dungeons' which makes it stupid as fuck at ALL TIMES. I don't give a shit if there are new dungeons if I'm going to grind the same new dungeons 800 times at the expense of variety.

At the end of the day, it functions like every other weeabo MMO out there, they add some new content and the only way they prevent you from blowing through it instantly is by making it grindy bullshit for mats or reps or whatever other bullshit nobody wants to do. They should focus more on the things they do well: Trials, NEW dungeons (not hard mode rehashes of old dungeons), raid bosses, and most importantly MSQs that aren't just busywork. Instead the patches introduce what amounts to basically nothing.

You're still talking about hardmodes as if they weren't completely different dungeons outside of a similar art style. It makes it very difficult to believe you have any end game FFXIV knowledge at all to draw from, so your comparisons on endgame content fall very flat.

You do type a lot of nonsense though, and then throw in random insults.

You deserve a plus 1.

Edit: WoW adds pointless currencies. WoW has pointless grinds for minimal increase (your praise of the legendary ring, specifically). WoW adds Raid content in a once a year push, while FFXIV adds similar/more content over the same timeframe, just not all at once.

Do you play either game, or just read about them on mmorpg.com?