Finding a body

Cutlery · May 25, 2023

Yeah, the dad told me no one was allowed to go with the search party, not even law enforcement.

Nothing yet, but it's only been 6ish hours, and that's a lotta ground for 4 dogs. They'll eliminate a good chunk of territory to make the weekend easier though.

BrotherWu · May 25, 2023

Hoss said:
When i did it, the only training I had was CERT. Which is basically no training at all when it comes to searching. I think in CERT they taught us to fan out and stay within sight of each other, and that's about it. We did not work with the dogs though. We had our own areas and called in the dogs when we found a bone to determine if it was human. But the dogs also had their own area they were doing themselves.

The CERT teams I have seen are quite a bit lower on gear and training than a typical SAR team. We're registered on SARTech levels through a national org called NASAR. That and the team requirements is an unbelievable amount of training. Orienteering, mapping, fine search techniques, survival, GPS, wilderness first aid, crime scene awareness, FEMA IS, scent theory, HAM radio protocols, night nav, lost person behavior, etc.

That's just some of the basics. From there, you can branch out further into advanced medical, coms, k9 training/handling, search management, etc. We have a full day drill once per month and K9 handlers are usually training an additional day or two per week. We can be a little dorky but most of the team members are pretty competent. As far as I can tell, CERT teams can shine a flashlight and do a line search.

It's a bunch of fun and if you think you'd be into it, I'd say do it but be ready for a big commitment over a long haul. My first callout, we were out looking for an older gentleman who had been missing in the woods for a couple of nights in 20-degree temps. We found him alive within about 90 minutes. I was hooked man. Seeing that message from his happy family made it all worth it. And, honestly, even when you find people who have passed, the families are grateful to have closure.

A couple of weeks ago, a team in the western UP found an 8-year-old who had been lost in the Porkies for a couple of days. That's legit wilderness and it could have ended badly. Cool shit.

Wisconsin boy found after days in Porcupine Mountains

A dayslong search came to a happy end Monday when an 8-year-old missing in Porcupine Mountains Wilderness State Park in the western Upper Peninsula was found safely and reunited with his family.

www.woodtv.com

Hoping for the best

Cutlery

Hoss · May 25, 2023

Cutlery said:
Yeah, the dad told me no one was allowed to go with the search party, not even law enforcement.

Nothing yet, but it's only been 6ish hours, and that's a lotta ground for 4 dogs. They'll eliminate a good chunk of territory to make the weekend easier though.

They do things way different there. I've got a number and can join the group that handles our county anytime I want. I just don't have the time to commit to it. We just had another call out to help tomorrow but I can't make it. Most of the time they do not need help to search, but when it's a national forest, they take all the help they can get.

BrotherWu said:
As far as I can tell, CERT teams can shine a flashlight and do a line search.

Flashlights are in the advanced CERT course, sir! In case I wasn't clear, we were line walking. I just spoke to the dog handlers and other full timers as much as I could. Each volunteer team was lead by someone (actually 2 IIRC) who knew what they were doing and given an area to search.

Cutlery · May 25, 2023

JFC, GF just called and said she swore our buddy was following her home from work, driving a car that's not his.

Goddamned stress is getting to people!

BrotherWu · May 25, 2023

Cutlery said:
JFC, GF just called and said she swore our buddy was following her home from work, driving a car that's not his.

Goddamned stress is getting to people!

You said he drove to this park so I assume they know where his car is? Is anyone searching right now?

Cutlery · May 25, 2023

BrotherWu said:
You said he drove to this park so I assume they know where his car is? Is anyone searching right now?

The car, as far as I know, is still at the park.

4 dogs out there right at this moment. They haven't found anything yet. Which, if it was a boxed in area, I'd say was a bad sign. But, it's got the river, so there's always the chance he just waded out into that.

Or, he faked his own death.

But, let's be serious, it's just my GF wanting to believe shit. Even if he did....a dude who fakes his own death is gonna be none too happy with a person who ruins all of that.

BrotherWu · May 25, 2023

Cutlery said:
The car, as far as I know, is still at the park.

4 dogs out there right at this moment. They haven't found anything yet. Which, if it was a boxed in area, I'd say was a bad sign. But, it's got the river, so there's always the chance he just waded out into that.

Or, he faked his own death.

But, let's be serious, it's just my GF wanting to believe shit. Even if he did....a dude who fakes his own death is gonna be none too happy with a person who ruins all of that.

You could probably listen to their radio traffic on a scanner app.

Cutlery · May 25, 2023

Looks like no news on the cadaver dogs, guess they're going back out tomorrow. Story keeps fucking changing on the possible sighting, tired of listening to 3rd hand bullshit, I'm discounting it completely now.

Me and half a dozen dudes going out and walking the bush Saturday morning unless they find him tomorrow. Also, reddit is a bunch of fuckwads. Looks like someone made a post over there about it and got a bunch of "it's fake cuz it's not on the news." Yeah, sure, news all of a sudden started covering random missing 31 year old white males. Plus the post can't be someone too terribly close to him, it's full of all sorts of inaccurate information.

Whole thing just pisses me off. My other gaming buddy and I have both been in very, very similar positions, but the difference is that we had kids - we had someone to work for, a reason to live for. This dude was right smack dab in the middle of that generation where all of the women are whores, no one is worth marrying, and he looked to guys like us and our failed marriages and thought "What a waste of time, just gonna do my own thing." Except when the going gets rough, you really can start to fall into the mindset of "no one cares about me at all, might as well just go end it" and there's no hugs from your kids or support of a caring woman to help pull you up out of it, or at least prevent you from falling further. My youngest all of a sudden outta the blue started hugging me every day lately, and even though it ain't gonna change anything, it reminds me that I've gotta get up every day and keep going for someone other than myself.

Fuck clown world.

Gavinmad · May 25, 2023

Cutlery said:
Story keeps fucking changing on the possible sighting, tired of listening to 3rd hand bullshit,

That's why I asked if they had contact information on the "witness".

It's a schlep but might be able to help next weekend if you still haven't found him. Doubt I'd be any use for group searches but I've always had a knack for unconventional thinking.

Cutlery · May 25, 2023

Gavinmad said:
That's why I asked if they had contact information on the "witness".

It's a schlep but might be able to help next weekend if you still haven't found him. Doubt I'd be any use for group searches but I've always had a knack for unconventional thinking.

Hopefully we've got it wrapped up by then. Although, a couple of days with dogs, the family doing the best they can all week, and some hardcore motherfuckers going at it hard on the weekend....if we haven't found him by Monday, I'm gonna go ahead and say he's in the river.

I've got ex-military buddies for the first time in my life. This fucking guy....he's 100% disabled from the army, works only to give himself something to do, got lung cancer from some shit he got into being a tunnel rat in Afghanistan, smokes 2 packs a day, and that sonuvabitch is kicking my ass up hills. It's unreal. What a fucking animal.

When I told him about this missing buddy all he replied with was "Let me know if we need to go human hunting."

Yeah, if we don't find him after this dude gets some time in the woods, he ain't fucking in there.

BrotherWu · May 26, 2023

If they had 4 HR dogs in there all day and didn't find anything yet, that is pretty interesting. Are you sure they were all HR? Did they get a direction of travel or anything like that?

They're probably using simplex but I'll check EchoLink to see if there is a repeater in the area with traffic on it.

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

I don't have any answers to those questions.

Dunno where they searched, asked the family, got no reply. Gonna call my contact with the sheriff and see if he can narrow some stuff down for me before I head down there and waste my time double checking it.

Hes probably in the river....fits his MO of not wanting to bother anyone

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

The dad got back to me. That team of 4 cadaver dogs gridded out and searched the entire park and found nothing.

So, canceled the hike tomorrow. No sense in bushwhacking thru that if the dogs can't find anything.

Burren · May 26, 2023

Where does the river lead?

Gavinmad · May 26, 2023

Burren said:
Where does the river lead?

Into the Mississippi

Burren · May 26, 2023

Gavinmad said:
Into the Mississippi

Well shit, that's not good. Was hoping into a lake.

Gavinmad · May 26, 2023

Burren said:
Well shit, that's not good. Was hoping into a lake.

There's only about 10 miles left of St Croix before it empties into the Mississippi and the next 70 river miles has 3 Lock and Dams, the first of which is only about 5 miles past the St Croix confluence. If he went into the river he'd likely already have been found, unless he got hung up somewhere on the shore before making it to the Mississippi.

Cutlery said:
The dad got back to me. That team of 4 cadaver dogs gridded out and searched the entire park and found nothing.

So, canceled the hike tomorrow. No sense in bushwhacking thru that if the dogs can't find anything.

The back burner theory I've had was me wondering who owns the land immediately surrounding the boundaries of the park. If the park boundary is the line at which all the searchers stop and turn around, why wouldn't I just walk another quarter mile or so through the brush beyond where their searches stop? I can't tell the exact park borders on the Google Earth map but it looks like there's still a fair amount of forested cover to the north before you get to houses again.

Cutlery · May 26, 2023

Gavinmad said:
There's only about 10 miles left of St Croix before it empties into the Mississippi and the next 70 river miles has 3 Lock and Dams, the first of which is only about 5 miles past the St Croix confluence. If he went into the river he'd likely already have been found, unless he got hung up somewhere on the shore before making it to the Mississippi.

The back burner theory I've had was me wondering who owns the land immediately surrounding the boundaries of the park. If the park boundary is the line at which all the searchers stop and turn around, why wouldn't I just walk another quarter mile or so through the brush beyond where their searches stop? I can't tell the exact park borders on the Google Earth map but it looks like there's still a fair amount of forested cover to the north before you get to houses again.

The unfortunate part is that there is a gate and a sign about CCTV cameras on the trail leading to the private property.

Yeah, it's no big deal for a suicide to hop a fence, who cares. But it's a big deal for a search party to do it. Also, when we were out there Sunday, the sheriff was talking to 3 guys at the end of that trail, towards the houses. So I'm willing to bet they asked for help and either got it and it lead nowhere, or it was declined and that's that.

My back burner theory is he faked his own death and is coming over for Gloomhaven tomorrow.

Borzak · May 27, 2023

Rumors are going to go wild. The guy I mentioned that I was supposed to keep an eye open for him while on the national forest the rumors went crazy. Even the paper got into it a few years later "he was seen at a casino in AR 500 miles away working there". Yeah so a guy that has a very large and profitable company (his daughter still lives off the company almost 30 years later) faked it to go work in an Indian casino in the middle of nowhere lol. He was already divorced and after his death his wife got a large chunk of it. But a good source lol.

Cutlery · May 27, 2023

Borzak said:
Rumors are going to go wild. The guy I mentioned that I was supposed to keep an eye open for him while on the national forest the rumors went crazy. Even the paper got into it a few years later "he was seen at a casino in AR 500 miles away working there". Yeah so a guy that has a very large and profitable company (his daughter still lives off the company almost 30 years later) faked it to go work in an Indian casino in the middle of nowhere lol. He was already divorced and after his death his wife got a large chunk of it. But a good source lol.

Oh, completely...my GF already feels like this just means she really did see him on the way home from work the other day. I told her she should probably keep that story between us.

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