Finding a body
- Thread starter Cutlery
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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OK OK, I got it he faked his death to get away from the cartels he screwed over.
I'm only playing along because I know this is a stage of grief.
Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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No dice. Story hit the news finally. They searched the water and found nothing too. So we're down to either he jumped a fence onto private property, he got picked up/left somehow, or he really did just say "fuck it" and leave and start over. Start over from what, I'm not sure. Dude had no relationship, no kids. No real reason to do that. So I'm sure he's dead somewhere, just kinda baffled at the lengths he went to in order to not be found.
Oh, and the GF saw the guy again... And surprise surprise, wasn't him. But at least she doesn't have to wonder for the rest of her life.
Oh, and the GF saw the guy again... And surprise surprise, wasn't him. But at least she doesn't have to wonder for the rest of her life.
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Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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The best my gaming buddies and I can come up with is he sent us on one last quest.
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Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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tree-fitty on my private property theory.
and hope nobody notices the all the obvious signs of digging
and hope nobody notices the all the obvious signs of digging
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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Yarp. Borzak said it's pretty easy to walk past something in the thick bush, so if the dogs can't smell the body, I'm not sure how close someone would need to be to notice signs of digging.
I've been hiking/hunting in a few various biomes, but I cant say I was ever actively looking for something while walking, to remember how hard it would be to spot human activity. Additionally, outside of the few hunting trips and exploring some friend's/family's heavily wooded property as a kid, I mostly staying on trail while hiking.
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Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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A) we're talking about people actively searching for a body, not someone randomly stumbling upon it
B) where exactly are you planning to hide the mountain of dirt from your elaborately rigged tunnel that you dug?
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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A) Borzak said they had active search parties for the dude that was killed during his time as a park ranger/employee and they never found him, so things can be missed.
B) I don't know the terrain of the park. If there are hills, cliffs, and slopes that are not easily accessible or areas that have a lot of natural erosion, you could find a place where digging could blend in. If someone was planning this for a while, they could go dig the hole/tunnel and cover up any signs of it, in advance.
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Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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I was thinking someone might walk by a well hidden bone or body part in a bush or under some brush. Not a recent hole big enough to hide a live person. I don't think so and guessing dogs would pick up on that. Not to mention the obvious. If he made it big enough to get down into who is going to shovel the dirt to cover him up or camo it up?
If dogs didn't find him in a small search area I'd lean towards he noped out and won't show up. Even in todays super digital world you read about people changing their identies and starting over. Hell pretty sure I could get down closer to the border and buy new SS cards and papers by the pound.
Ditch the phone and get a new one. Most of the January 6th people they were ID'd by the FBI asking the phone companies for info on what phones used those towers that day, not facial ID.
Worked as a silvicultarist/forester, not a park ranger lol.
If dogs didn't find him in a small search area I'd lean towards he noped out and won't show up. Even in todays super digital world you read about people changing their identies and starting over. Hell pretty sure I could get down closer to the border and buy new SS cards and papers by the pound.
Ditch the phone and get a new one. Most of the January 6th people they were ID'd by the FBI asking the phone companies for info on what phones used those towers that day, not facial ID.
Worked as a silvicultarist/forester, not a park ranger lol.
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Burns
Avatar of War Slayer
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Ranger and forester are both Druid adjacent, so close enough!
It sounds like it's rather difficult to evade the dogs, if they are called out within a week or two of something happening. So burying ones self was about the only thing I could think of, that would hide the smell for the dogs and still be in the search area. Obviously, a vertical hole would be rather difficult to cover up, without some elaborate contraption set up, but I was thinking more of tunneling into the side of a deep washout gully, if the park has a bunch of elevation changes. Collapsing the entrance, once inside, might seal it off from the dog's superlative sense of smell.
Regardless, anything he did, to disappear that well probably took some pre-planning and work. So, maybe he took his phone with him on his planning hikes. I don't remember if this came up already but how far back do the phone companies keep their tracking data and do they actually release GPS tracking, or is it all tower pings? If they have 5 years of data and it's put in a data file, it should(?) be easily searchable, to look for locations in the park, even if he did the planning last year, or the year before?
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Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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I don't know if he planned this or not, or how long he did.
I said I wasn't gonna get into shit, but basically - I don't think he faked his death and fucked off anywhere. There's really no reason to. It's not like he had a family, no wife, no kids, none of that. Just a single dude who played video games. In fact, he never even talked about any past or present relationships. My GF asked me when she first met him if he was gay -- no, don't think so, just didn't have an interest in women, or maybe was never shown any interest, I honestly don't know. So there's not much motivation there to end your life here and move off somewhere else. Near as I can tell from the communication with the sheriff (which, btw, fuck those guys...never talking to them again. Fucking shitbags. I asked for one goddamned thing, which was "Where have you looked so I can go different places and cover different ground?" and couldn't get any of them to talk to me. Fuck you, I'm done talking to you useless fuckers then), our gaming group was the only people he really talked to. This seems to be corroborated, because his supposed "friends" made a reddit post which was full of inaccuracies and the family didn't really have any good information for the news story either. Basically, there's a lot of details wrong on everything I have seen everywhere else from everyone else he knew about this. Maybe that's how the news works, I dunno, but it sure seems no one knew him very well, certainly not like I did.
He "retired" a couple years ago once he saw how bleak his future would be at the company he was at. What was to look forward to, sit on a fucking forklift for 30 years? He couldn't handle it. But, since he lived a pretty spartan lifestyle, had a condo with a pretty retardedly cheap mortgage, and because he made a fuckload of money in the few years he was there (north of 80k a year), he had plenty of money banked where he didn't have to work for awhile. How long does 50k in the bank last when your mortgage is $400? These are pretty realistic numbers for what the situation probably was. We would occasionally offer him job tips we'd seen, my GF told him she could get him in at the warehouse she worked at - decent starting wage, 8-5 M-F, no OT, no weekends, and he just shrugged his shoulders at it. The only reason that we could see for doing that was that he still had money saved up and didn't need to work, so we didn't think anything of it.
Turns out, he's outta money. 3 months behind on everything, credit card maxed, checking acct overdrawn. There was zero food in his house, not even a bottle of water. Nothing. Now, that's a pretty fucking silly reason to kill yourself - shit, you own a fucking condo, sell that, pay off the rest of the shit, get a job, and you're back on your feet in under a year. But, that's what we're looking at. Maybe he was just speedrunning life - worked for a few years, retired, then died. I dunno...but it sure seems he mliked out every last day he had on the planet. Ran it until the tank was on E and he couldn't handle it anymore. The thing that sucks is that every other guy at the table has been there before - we've all been piss fucking broke. Shit, there was a year my ex and I made 19k COMBINED. And we had a kid. We were fucking POOR. But the thing that kept us going is we had someone - either a spouse we were getting support from, or a child we needed to care for. So we muscled thru, fixed the shit, and crawled outta that hole. He had none of that. No one to work for. No one to be strong for. It's real easy to just think "Whelp, no one gives a shit, so I guess I'll go eat a 9 mill." Except we did give a shit. If the motherfucker had said ONE thing, to ANY of us, we couldda helped him outta this, and it wouldn't have been a big deal. I get it though - it's probably why he did it on Saturday game day. He couldn't look me in the eye knowing what he was about to do.
The one thing I'm super fucking grateful for happened about 6 months ago. He came over and said "Hey, I'm starting to feel like a piece of shit." "Why?" "I come over here every week, you are constantly throwing food on the grill for us and I never bring anything, so here, take some money" I threw it back at him and said "Absolutely fucking not, dude, keep your money. You're here every time I ask, you come over and help me out with so much shit. I would never have gotten that Black Walnut up the hill without you, let alone get the shit milled. You help me with literally everything I need help with, the bare minimum I can do is feed you every week and send you home with the leftovers." He said "alright" and took the money back and we never spoke of it again. I'm so fucking happy I did that, because maybe I bought a few more weeks with the dude by doing so. I'd never be able to live with myself if I had known he died outta money while I took $60 from him.
So no, I can't believe he faked his own death. He's got no reason to. He's running from nothing, from no one. The problems he had could just be solved by going back to work, but he couldn't stomach it for whatever reason. Maybe it all felt pointless - why the fuck spend the next 30 years doing shit he hates just to go home to an empty house? I don't know, and I'll never know. The only thing that I don't get is why he went to such lengths to not be found. Even if you think your life isn't worth living, and even if you don't wanna make a mess for anyone, how the fuck can you do this and not think that people won't be looking for you. He knew with his dying breath that I'd be out there looking for him. He probably didn't think it would be the same fucking day, but I'm sure he knew eventually enough pieces of the puzzle would come together. Just let us find you so we can get some peace, after you find the peace you were searching for.
I said I wasn't gonna get into shit, but basically - I don't think he faked his death and fucked off anywhere. There's really no reason to. It's not like he had a family, no wife, no kids, none of that. Just a single dude who played video games. In fact, he never even talked about any past or present relationships. My GF asked me when she first met him if he was gay -- no, don't think so, just didn't have an interest in women, or maybe was never shown any interest, I honestly don't know. So there's not much motivation there to end your life here and move off somewhere else. Near as I can tell from the communication with the sheriff (which, btw, fuck those guys...never talking to them again. Fucking shitbags. I asked for one goddamned thing, which was "Where have you looked so I can go different places and cover different ground?" and couldn't get any of them to talk to me. Fuck you, I'm done talking to you useless fuckers then), our gaming group was the only people he really talked to. This seems to be corroborated, because his supposed "friends" made a reddit post which was full of inaccuracies and the family didn't really have any good information for the news story either. Basically, there's a lot of details wrong on everything I have seen everywhere else from everyone else he knew about this. Maybe that's how the news works, I dunno, but it sure seems no one knew him very well, certainly not like I did.
He "retired" a couple years ago once he saw how bleak his future would be at the company he was at. What was to look forward to, sit on a fucking forklift for 30 years? He couldn't handle it. But, since he lived a pretty spartan lifestyle, had a condo with a pretty retardedly cheap mortgage, and because he made a fuckload of money in the few years he was there (north of 80k a year), he had plenty of money banked where he didn't have to work for awhile. How long does 50k in the bank last when your mortgage is $400? These are pretty realistic numbers for what the situation probably was. We would occasionally offer him job tips we'd seen, my GF told him she could get him in at the warehouse she worked at - decent starting wage, 8-5 M-F, no OT, no weekends, and he just shrugged his shoulders at it. The only reason that we could see for doing that was that he still had money saved up and didn't need to work, so we didn't think anything of it.
Turns out, he's outta money. 3 months behind on everything, credit card maxed, checking acct overdrawn. There was zero food in his house, not even a bottle of water. Nothing. Now, that's a pretty fucking silly reason to kill yourself - shit, you own a fucking condo, sell that, pay off the rest of the shit, get a job, and you're back on your feet in under a year. But, that's what we're looking at. Maybe he was just speedrunning life - worked for a few years, retired, then died. I dunno...but it sure seems he mliked out every last day he had on the planet. Ran it until the tank was on E and he couldn't handle it anymore. The thing that sucks is that every other guy at the table has been there before - we've all been piss fucking broke. Shit, there was a year my ex and I made 19k COMBINED. And we had a kid. We were fucking POOR. But the thing that kept us going is we had someone - either a spouse we were getting support from, or a child we needed to care for. So we muscled thru, fixed the shit, and crawled outta that hole. He had none of that. No one to work for. No one to be strong for. It's real easy to just think "Whelp, no one gives a shit, so I guess I'll go eat a 9 mill." Except we did give a shit. If the motherfucker had said ONE thing, to ANY of us, we couldda helped him outta this, and it wouldn't have been a big deal. I get it though - it's probably why he did it on Saturday game day. He couldn't look me in the eye knowing what he was about to do.
The one thing I'm super fucking grateful for happened about 6 months ago. He came over and said "Hey, I'm starting to feel like a piece of shit." "Why?" "I come over here every week, you are constantly throwing food on the grill for us and I never bring anything, so here, take some money" I threw it back at him and said "Absolutely fucking not, dude, keep your money. You're here every time I ask, you come over and help me out with so much shit. I would never have gotten that Black Walnut up the hill without you, let alone get the shit milled. You help me with literally everything I need help with, the bare minimum I can do is feed you every week and send you home with the leftovers." He said "alright" and took the money back and we never spoke of it again. I'm so fucking happy I did that, because maybe I bought a few more weeks with the dude by doing so. I'd never be able to live with myself if I had known he died outta money while I took $60 from him.
So no, I can't believe he faked his own death. He's got no reason to. He's running from nothing, from no one. The problems he had could just be solved by going back to work, but he couldn't stomach it for whatever reason. Maybe it all felt pointless - why the fuck spend the next 30 years doing shit he hates just to go home to an empty house? I don't know, and I'll never know. The only thing that I don't get is why he went to such lengths to not be found. Even if you think your life isn't worth living, and even if you don't wanna make a mess for anyone, how the fuck can you do this and not think that people won't be looking for you. He knew with his dying breath that I'd be out there looking for him. He probably didn't think it would be the same fucking day, but I'm sure he knew eventually enough pieces of the puzzle would come together. Just let us find you so we can get some peace, after you find the peace you were searching for.
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Fucker
Log Wizard
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I know a guy that checked out mentally a few years ago. Was married for a short time, then divorced. No career and doesn't work much if at all any more. I don't know for sure what he did for money, but I bet it involved selling everything he owned. He could make good money woodworking. He used not to be lazy. No retirement, no inheritance coming up. Watches tv all night, sleeps all day.
Strange. Also, he's not the type of person who can be talked at about important things.
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Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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Yeah, no reason for anyone else to start investing a bunch of time into this. It's been 2 weeks, no sign no trace of him. Where he's at now, he'll still be when some hunter kicks a skull.
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I'm sad that this happened to both of you. I wish I was as good a friend to mine as you were to him. Lord have mercy
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Burren
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Shitty situation man, really sorry for your loss. Truly good friends are a precious resource, it sucks losing one.
I'd be curious to know his relationship with his father. As a 31 year old white male, he's at the very top of the list of "people our society is failing." And not just failing, but actively killing. We give our young men no purpose, take away their essence and claim it's toxic while making them act more like women, all while telling them they're the reason for everything bad in the world. Good fathers (and to a lesser extent good mothers) can reign this in and strengthen resolve, but it really can be pretty fucking harsh, especially if the man doesn't understand some key truths of how the world works.
Fuck Clown World indeed.
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Cutlery
Kill All the White People
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So, from everything I can tell, he had a very normal, very healthy childhood. He talked fondly of all the things he did with his dad (building a boat, hunting, fishing, etc). But lately, he's been slightly tired of dealing with their covid-mania. That being said, I still felt like he had a passable relationship with his parents - his dad came out with him when his car was hit parked in front of my house, and things like that. So I never had any reason to believe that he had anything other than a reasonable relationship with his parents. However, when I met them at his place the day he went missing, they said that he doesn't really talk to them, didn't come over for Mother's day, and didn't cash the check they gave him for christmas. This is slightly contradicted by the fact that his mom said she spoke with him Thursday (when the last day I spoke to him was Tuesday), so I don't know how much they are just being overdramatic about things.
When I consider my own relationship with my parents (haven't spoken to either of them in 12 years), this seemed pretty normal to me.
Honestly, it never really stops sucking. A lot of guys at work who never talk to me are now coming up and asking about him, and pretty much everyone laments losing one of the good ones. So it seems like there wasn't a single person who thought he was a bad guy, except himself, apparently. My GF uses Threema to chat with me all day because she has no cell signal inside her work, so the only person I'd talk to and share memes with was this dude all day. Every day I get an actual text message, I open the phone hoping it's him, and it never is. And even browsing the board - who the fuck am I gonna share all these juice memes with now? It's just brutal. I've lost a good chunk of my stable male relationships in the last few months. I used to get seasonal depression in the fall, I imagine the spring is gonna be pretty rough from here on out.
I talked to his Dad Tuesday, no new updates. They got permission to search the private property surrounding the park, found nothing. They're taking the boat out every third day. He's been gone for 3 weeks now, and not a fucking trace of him anywhere. It's like the earth just swallowed him up. Or maybe that was the plan.
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