Holy fuck this is long. But please read it. I try my best to give long and thoughtful advice to a lot of you guys, so I ask you try to return the effort and suffer through the length and read all of this.
If it makes you feel any better, I almost broke up with the new gf yesterday, and am still kinda on the verge of breaking up. A couple weeks ago everyone was in great shape, now we"re all fucked haha.
We live on opposite sides of Seoul, I work normal 9-5 hours and she works early 6-3 hours. So with the distance and the different work hours, on the weekdays our time is pretty much restricted to 7-10, which is about the same as the travel time its takes me. Plus she has a million god damn friends that all make plans with her a full week in advance, she work(ed) 2 jobs (quit one a few weeks ago though) and has school.
In the beginning everything was completely 1 sided. I put in all the effort, made all the plans, and she didn"t seem to make any effort. My Korean male friend advised me that"s how it is here, you gotta win them over and at some point it becomes flipped where the girl is trying to spend time with you always and you are the one being more distant. Normally I don"t buy the idea that the male has to impress the female; I think both need to impress each other and both need to put in effort to see the other person if they are interested. I had a bad habit of breaking things off with girls really early if I got even the slightest sense that they weren"t putting in enough effort, so to learn a good boundary, I decided to do the opposite and be patient as hell.
Fast forward, it turned out to be a good idea, or so I thought. She started showing a ton more interest and about 2 weeks ago we had the super awkward "will you be my girlfriend" conversation. She was really happy and translated something in her phone that came out in English to "walking on air." I"m thinking that"s a little extreme of a statement, but I was happy to hear it.
About 11 days go by until we hang out again (yesterday). And before that, it was another 1 1/2 weeks. We average 2 dates a week planned, and 1 fulfilled. No need to be detailed, but plans get canceled a lot that, individually, have perfectly legit reasons. But if you really want to see someone, you can usually make sure it happens if you put in a little effort even despite unforeseen interferences. I don"t see her doing any of that.
Yesterday (Saturday) I was pretty clearly and openly angry with her. She had canceled Friday because she had pinkeye + novacaned up from the dentist, a day that I was really excited about because it was one of the very very few times we had a lot of time together, and she was coming to my town, hiking with me, and staying the night. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that it really was too much and she had to rest at home so we agreed to meet Saturday. The day comes and I get a text "I got called into work, so I may be a little late." She"s so fucking vague, and at this point I nearly explode because it"s almost the last straw. Text back "how late," knowing full well that if she was gonna be more than 30 min late I was going home, no response, text again, and she says 15 min. OK np, then she calls me and says she arrived, I go to find her, 2 min later calls me back and turns out she went to the wrong station (we had originally debated between 2 different places). We were seeing a movie in the station she was at in 2 hours, so instead of her coming to me I went to her (original plan was meet where I was, hang out then move to where she had gone for the movie) due to the new time constraint. I get there and go to the exit she said she was at and she was not there, so I call her "oh I moved to a different one" (ok thanks for informing me), I get to the new exit, she"s not there, call her "oh I"ll be right there" (she had been browsing the stores in the area). At this point I was fucking livid because, even though it was all little shit, I"m thinking at the end she was the one who fucked up and wasted 45 min she damn well better be sitting at the station waiting for me. Instead she makes me wait yet again because she wants to not be bored and go store browsing. Totally fucking inconsiderate.
Up until this point I have always been patient and understanding, not demanding anything (this was a mistake, I did not set boundaries of acceptable behavior with me). I asked her in a serious tone if she is actuallyattemptingto drive me crazy, and pretty much didn"t talk to her for the first hour. I thought this was preferable to yelling at her which is the only thing that would come out if I opened my mouth. She was apologizing profusely, then moved to looking really sad. I tell her she can be sorry all she wants, and I won"t be angry forever, but if we don"t change something it"s gonna happen again, so we have a problem to solve. Of course this is a foreign fucking language (no pun intended) for girls because girls only connect that problem = sad, rather than problem = find a solution, so nothing was volunteered by her.
Fast forward, I slowly am less angry, we have a good time blah blah but I never reassured her or condoned her behavior. Towards the end of the day I brought it up again. I explained that 3 months into living here, living in Korea has become excessively aggravating (a natural phase apparently of living in another culture), and I have to deal with retards and incompetent people every day at work, plus my job was some bait-and-switch and is the most tedious job on earth. I told her I have enough aggravations, I can"t deal with more from her.
I continued saying that we also face enough difficulties living so far apart, with the work schedules that we have, AND the language barrier. Even though her English is really good, complex things are very difficult to communicate. So if we want the relationship to work, we can"t add in canceled plans and suspicious excuses to the mix. I said I think we should both (I meant just her, but I was trying to avoid coming down on her because female minds tend to turn off when they feel bad) put more effort into making plans and sticking to them, and to be more communicative with each other. She was agreeable to the suggestion, but I expect that it was only because I didn"t give her an option to not agree.
My key mistake was, once again, once I realized I liked her, I stopped being challenging and setting expectations. I always bust on her, tease her for shit, and keep my manly stature around her (contrived body language that has since become habit). But I obviously failed to convey that there is a range of acceptable behavior with me, or I must have. If things had gone perfectly, I woulda looked back and thought that I handled everything great, but its because they didn"t that I look back and think I MUST have done something poorly.
I"m not really sure how to go about it now. I don"t have a lot of confidence that our talk motivated her at all to improve. I think at best she will just do what I said to appease me. I clearly at some point lost whatever it is that would make her eager to impress me. She had me still, wanting to impress her (though obviously hiding it), until yesterday. Now though, I have more of an "I don"t give a fuck" attitude, as in I am no longer afraid to do or say anything I want and I am in a position to regain control of things, assuming I haven"t already surrendered that position permanently. No doubt if she feels me pull away she will try to win me over again, but that is hard to convey when we see each other once a week and the aggravation is due to her canceling on me. How do I convey that at times like those?
I have no problem normally just saying that this is causing me too much aggravation and just ending it. In this case though, I specifically from the get-go committed to the plan of playing it the opposite way as I usually do, being extra patient, etc. because I need to learn more patience and to be less harsh. Plus, if I cut it off now my penis will murder me in my sleep because it seems to be quite a time investment with Korean girls and I am facing my longest dry spell by a factor of 4, and the holy land is close even given the shitty behavior by her. That being said, if how I go about trying to get some change (e.g. I pull away for a long period of time and she doesn"t pursue) ends up breaking us up that is fine, and I"m not afraid to use the best option even if it is high-risk.
I may be important to recognize that reading this, it may seem like she doesn"t give a shit period. That is the impression I sometimes get when we aren"t together, but when we are together she is super affectionate and completely into me in a nervous but revealing way. I"m pretty damn honest with myself too and the chances of me being fooled by a "I just want to practice my english" or "I just like the attention" hustler are pretty damn minute. So if you have advice, at least for the purpose of discussion ignore these possibilities.
So I"m looking for suggestions on how to get her more in the position of pursuer. Keep in mind Korean girls are much more traditional and don"t just assume that position easily. BUT on the other hand, I know that it is possible to arouse any emotion in any person with the right approach. BUT again on the other hand, history with her has shown that when I show interest, so does she, and when I stop communicating, so does she. Though I have not tested the breaking point of this. If I didn"t text or call her for a week, I"m sure she would reinitiate contact. I"m not above semi-manipulative games because that may possibly be the only thing that turns it around. So help me out here. By default I am gonna give her a very very limited opportunity to change how she is handling things and if I don"t see the effort I am either gonna tell her explicitly that she is gonna have to prove it to me (by traveling to my town and doing everything on my terms) or simply stop contacting her completely and let her be responsible for saving it or letting it go. I don"t know which is best, or if there is a better 3rd option. There is of course the option of doing exactly what she"s doing, making plans and canceling them on her, which would probably be the most effective option, but that"s really childish and I lose any "you are being a pain in the ass" moral high ground by doing that.
If it makes you feel any better, I almost broke up with the new gf yesterday, and am still kinda on the verge of breaking up. A couple weeks ago everyone was in great shape, now we"re all fucked haha.
We live on opposite sides of Seoul, I work normal 9-5 hours and she works early 6-3 hours. So with the distance and the different work hours, on the weekdays our time is pretty much restricted to 7-10, which is about the same as the travel time its takes me. Plus she has a million god damn friends that all make plans with her a full week in advance, she work(ed) 2 jobs (quit one a few weeks ago though) and has school.
In the beginning everything was completely 1 sided. I put in all the effort, made all the plans, and she didn"t seem to make any effort. My Korean male friend advised me that"s how it is here, you gotta win them over and at some point it becomes flipped where the girl is trying to spend time with you always and you are the one being more distant. Normally I don"t buy the idea that the male has to impress the female; I think both need to impress each other and both need to put in effort to see the other person if they are interested. I had a bad habit of breaking things off with girls really early if I got even the slightest sense that they weren"t putting in enough effort, so to learn a good boundary, I decided to do the opposite and be patient as hell.
Fast forward, it turned out to be a good idea, or so I thought. She started showing a ton more interest and about 2 weeks ago we had the super awkward "will you be my girlfriend" conversation. She was really happy and translated something in her phone that came out in English to "walking on air." I"m thinking that"s a little extreme of a statement, but I was happy to hear it.
About 11 days go by until we hang out again (yesterday). And before that, it was another 1 1/2 weeks. We average 2 dates a week planned, and 1 fulfilled. No need to be detailed, but plans get canceled a lot that, individually, have perfectly legit reasons. But if you really want to see someone, you can usually make sure it happens if you put in a little effort even despite unforeseen interferences. I don"t see her doing any of that.
Yesterday (Saturday) I was pretty clearly and openly angry with her. She had canceled Friday because she had pinkeye + novacaned up from the dentist, a day that I was really excited about because it was one of the very very few times we had a lot of time together, and she was coming to my town, hiking with me, and staying the night. I gave her the benefit of the doubt that it really was too much and she had to rest at home so we agreed to meet Saturday. The day comes and I get a text "I got called into work, so I may be a little late." She"s so fucking vague, and at this point I nearly explode because it"s almost the last straw. Text back "how late," knowing full well that if she was gonna be more than 30 min late I was going home, no response, text again, and she says 15 min. OK np, then she calls me and says she arrived, I go to find her, 2 min later calls me back and turns out she went to the wrong station (we had originally debated between 2 different places). We were seeing a movie in the station she was at in 2 hours, so instead of her coming to me I went to her (original plan was meet where I was, hang out then move to where she had gone for the movie) due to the new time constraint. I get there and go to the exit she said she was at and she was not there, so I call her "oh I moved to a different one" (ok thanks for informing me), I get to the new exit, she"s not there, call her "oh I"ll be right there" (she had been browsing the stores in the area). At this point I was fucking livid because, even though it was all little shit, I"m thinking at the end she was the one who fucked up and wasted 45 min she damn well better be sitting at the station waiting for me. Instead she makes me wait yet again because she wants to not be bored and go store browsing. Totally fucking inconsiderate.
Up until this point I have always been patient and understanding, not demanding anything (this was a mistake, I did not set boundaries of acceptable behavior with me). I asked her in a serious tone if she is actuallyattemptingto drive me crazy, and pretty much didn"t talk to her for the first hour. I thought this was preferable to yelling at her which is the only thing that would come out if I opened my mouth. She was apologizing profusely, then moved to looking really sad. I tell her she can be sorry all she wants, and I won"t be angry forever, but if we don"t change something it"s gonna happen again, so we have a problem to solve. Of course this is a foreign fucking language (no pun intended) for girls because girls only connect that problem = sad, rather than problem = find a solution, so nothing was volunteered by her.
Fast forward, I slowly am less angry, we have a good time blah blah but I never reassured her or condoned her behavior. Towards the end of the day I brought it up again. I explained that 3 months into living here, living in Korea has become excessively aggravating (a natural phase apparently of living in another culture), and I have to deal with retards and incompetent people every day at work, plus my job was some bait-and-switch and is the most tedious job on earth. I told her I have enough aggravations, I can"t deal with more from her.
I continued saying that we also face enough difficulties living so far apart, with the work schedules that we have, AND the language barrier. Even though her English is really good, complex things are very difficult to communicate. So if we want the relationship to work, we can"t add in canceled plans and suspicious excuses to the mix. I said I think we should both (I meant just her, but I was trying to avoid coming down on her because female minds tend to turn off when they feel bad) put more effort into making plans and sticking to them, and to be more communicative with each other. She was agreeable to the suggestion, but I expect that it was only because I didn"t give her an option to not agree.
My key mistake was, once again, once I realized I liked her, I stopped being challenging and setting expectations. I always bust on her, tease her for shit, and keep my manly stature around her (contrived body language that has since become habit). But I obviously failed to convey that there is a range of acceptable behavior with me, or I must have. If things had gone perfectly, I woulda looked back and thought that I handled everything great, but its because they didn"t that I look back and think I MUST have done something poorly.
I"m not really sure how to go about it now. I don"t have a lot of confidence that our talk motivated her at all to improve. I think at best she will just do what I said to appease me. I clearly at some point lost whatever it is that would make her eager to impress me. She had me still, wanting to impress her (though obviously hiding it), until yesterday. Now though, I have more of an "I don"t give a fuck" attitude, as in I am no longer afraid to do or say anything I want and I am in a position to regain control of things, assuming I haven"t already surrendered that position permanently. No doubt if she feels me pull away she will try to win me over again, but that is hard to convey when we see each other once a week and the aggravation is due to her canceling on me. How do I convey that at times like those?
I have no problem normally just saying that this is causing me too much aggravation and just ending it. In this case though, I specifically from the get-go committed to the plan of playing it the opposite way as I usually do, being extra patient, etc. because I need to learn more patience and to be less harsh. Plus, if I cut it off now my penis will murder me in my sleep because it seems to be quite a time investment with Korean girls and I am facing my longest dry spell by a factor of 4, and the holy land is close even given the shitty behavior by her. That being said, if how I go about trying to get some change (e.g. I pull away for a long period of time and she doesn"t pursue) ends up breaking us up that is fine, and I"m not afraid to use the best option even if it is high-risk.
I may be important to recognize that reading this, it may seem like she doesn"t give a shit period. That is the impression I sometimes get when we aren"t together, but when we are together she is super affectionate and completely into me in a nervous but revealing way. I"m pretty damn honest with myself too and the chances of me being fooled by a "I just want to practice my english" or "I just like the attention" hustler are pretty damn minute. So if you have advice, at least for the purpose of discussion ignore these possibilities.
So I"m looking for suggestions on how to get her more in the position of pursuer. Keep in mind Korean girls are much more traditional and don"t just assume that position easily. BUT on the other hand, I know that it is possible to arouse any emotion in any person with the right approach. BUT again on the other hand, history with her has shown that when I show interest, so does she, and when I stop communicating, so does she. Though I have not tested the breaking point of this. If I didn"t text or call her for a week, I"m sure she would reinitiate contact. I"m not above semi-manipulative games because that may possibly be the only thing that turns it around. So help me out here. By default I am gonna give her a very very limited opportunity to change how she is handling things and if I don"t see the effort I am either gonna tell her explicitly that she is gonna have to prove it to me (by traveling to my town and doing everything on my terms) or simply stop contacting her completely and let her be responsible for saving it or letting it go. I don"t know which is best, or if there is a better 3rd option. There is of course the option of doing exactly what she"s doing, making plans and canceling them on her, which would probably be the most effective option, but that"s really childish and I lose any "you are being a pain in the ass" moral high ground by doing that.
