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chaos

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Yeah I have read the theory that Oberyn poisoned Tywin but it never seemed like there was much to go on for that.
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
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Yeah I have read the theory that Oberyn poisoned Tywin but it never seemed like there was much to go on for that.
I guess he was having such a long shit that Varys cold sneak in Shae? Since him really having a whore in there is very out of character with little scope for it to be explained or mean anything other than a confession from Varys. That and the corpse smelling more than it should have which was made into quite a big plot point.
 

Grimmlokk

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That and the corpse smelling more than it should have which was made into quite a big plot point.
Inspired me to re-read that chapter. There's certainly plenty of talk about the smell, but a bolt through the bowels could explain that. Has there ever been any mention of a specific poison that makes people rot? That would be a pretty big flag.

The only suspicious part is the Queen of Thorns prodding Cersei about it, but that could just be her being her. Other than that one chapter I don't recall the smell being "a big plot point" since there's never been anything made of it in the actual books. It's just a fan theory at this point.


edit: Here's the exchange with Olenna, just because she's awesome.

Then his mother appeared and slid her arm through his own. "It would seem that Lord Tywin did not share his plans with our regent, I can't imagine why. Still, there 'tis, no use hectoring Her Grace. She is quite right, you must write Lord Leyton before Garth boards a ship. You know the sea will sicken him and make his farting worse." Lady Olenna gave Cersei a toothless smile. "Your council chambers will smell sweeter with Lord Gyles, though I daresay that coughing would drive me to distraction. We all adore dear old uncle Garth, but the man is flatulent, that cannot be gainsaid. I do abhor foul smells." Her wrinkled face wrinkled up even more. "I caught a whiff of something unpleasant in the holy sept, in truth. Mayhaps you smelled it too?"

"No," Cersei said coldly. "A scent, you say?"

"More like a stink."

"Perhaps you miss your autumn roses. We have kept you here too long."
 

Selix

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I don't know, I think Tywin actually does treat Tyrion quite well if you look at his actions (not his words lol).

Tyrion is given a chance to prove himself as Hand of the King basically being the ruler of Westeros for a while and is then made Master of Coin which while a tough job is really fucking important as we see later with the Iron Bank and Stannis. Meanwhile he is given the best bride in Westeros which potentially promotes him to head one of the great families. I can't belive that Tywin intented for The Mountain to kill The Viper at the trial either, Dorne being happy is more important than a henchman.

The problem is that Tywin is harsh in his lessons for his children and Tyrion's ego can't get over verbal slights or the trauma of his childhood, so he moans constantly about how tough his life is and how he isn't getting recognition. If Tyrion just kept his mouth shut and worked for more than a few months without asking for more or pissing people off on purpose then everything would have been fine.

Also since Tyrion wanted Casterly Rock, all he had to do was wait for Tywin to die right? He was officially next in line, it didn't matter what Tywin thought about it unless he succeeded in getting Jamie out of the Kingsguard. Even if that happened he could have worked for Winterfel.
To add to this Tyrion's dwarf condition would make him an instant target as soon as he assumed Casterly rock by every noble/upstart under him. Tywin may have very well understood this and known for Tyrion to have any chance of taking and holding Casterly rock he was going to have to be 10x more ruthless and intelligent then even Tywin himself.
 

Needless

Toe Sucker
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I wasn't convinced by the tywin theory but this is pretty convincing lol
ALL LEATHER MUST BE BOILED: Tywin Lannister: Dead Man Shitting?

Tywin Lannister: Dead Man Shitting?
"Where will I find my lord father?"

"In the solar with Lord Tyrell and Prince Oberyn."

Mace Tyrell and the Red Viper breaking bread together? Strange and stranger.

-Jaime and Ser Meryn Trant, upon Jaime's return to King's Landing

"Widow's blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man's bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons."

-Grand Maester Pycelle, during Tyrion's trial

"To be sure, I have much to thank your sister for. If not for her accusation at the feast, it might well be you judging me instead of me judging you." The prince's eyes were dark with amusement. "Who knows more of poison than the Red Viper of Dorne, after all?"

[.]

"Your father," said Prince Oberyn, "may not live forever."

Something about the way he said it made the hairs on the back of Tyrion's neck bristle. Suddenly he was mindful of Elia again, and all that Oberyn had said as they crossed the field of ashes. He wants the head that spoke the words, not just the hand that swung the sword. "It is not wise to speak such treasons in the Red Keep, my prince. The little birds are listening."

"Let them. Is it treason to say a man is mortal? Valar morghulis was how they said it in Valyria of old. All men must die. And the Doom came and proved it true."

-Prince Oberyn Martell and Tyrion, in Tyrion's cell

He found his father where he knew he'd find him, seated in the dimness of the privy tower, bedrobe hiked up around his hips.

[.]

For once, his father did what Tyrion asked him. The proof was the sudden stench, as his bowels loosened in the moment of death. Well, he was in the right place for it, Tyrion thought. But the stink that filled the privy gave ample evidence that the oft-repeated jape about his father was just another lie.

Lord Tywin Lannister did not, in the end, shit gold.

-from Tyrion's assassination of Tywin during his escape from the black cells

The King's Hand was rotting visibly. His face had taken on a greenish tinge, and his eyes were deeply sunken, two black pits. Fissures had opened in his cheeks, and a foul white fluid was seeping through the joints of his splendid gold-and-crimson armor to pool beneath his body.

[.]

Red-eyed and pale, Cersei climbed the steps to kneel above their father, drawing Tommen down beside her. The boy recoiled at the sight, but his mother seized his wrist before he could pull away."Pray," she whispered, and Tommen tried. But he was only eight and Lord Tywin was a horror. One desperate breath of air, then the king began to sob."Stop that!" Cersei said. Tommen turned his head and doubled over, retching. His crown fell off and rolled across the marble floor. His mother pulled back in disgust, and all at once the king was running for the doors, as fast as his eight-year-old legs could carry him.

"Ser Osmund, relieve me," Jaime said sharply, as Kettleblack turned to chase the crown. He handed the man the golden sword and went after his king. In the Hall of Lamps he caught him, beneath the eyes of two dozen startled septas. "I'm sorry," Tommen wept. "I will do better on the morrow. Mother says a king must show the way, but the smell made me sick."

This will not do. Too many eager ears and watching eyes."Best we go outside, Your Grace." Jaime led the boy out to where the air was as fresh and clean as King's Landing ever got. Twoscore gold cloaks had been posted around the plaza to guard the horses and the litters. He took the king off to the side, well away from everyone, and sat him down upon the marble steps. "I wasn't scared," the boy insisted. "The smell made me sick. Didn't it make you sick? How could you bear it, Uncle, ser?"

-Jaime, Cersei, and Tommen, during Tywin's funeral.

I'm just saying: means, motive, opportunity.
 

Noble Savage

Kang of Kangz
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Yeah I think its been pretty well established in this show that this isn't the kind of world where women really get a choice if they get fucked or not. I saw this more as Cersei holding out sex against Jamie as a power play and Jaimie just finally having enough of it. It wasn't like Cersei wasn't ever going to fuck him again.

That part wasn't what felt awkward about it, what felt awkward was that Jaimie decided to do it right in front of his dead son. That was a weird time to get the urge to lay that pipe.
 

spronk

FPS noob
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Why now are people raising flags about 'rape'? There has been rape left and right in this show since the first episode.
fat bitches love jaime on the show so they are up in arms against their hero being a rapist

more seriously the showrunners, writers, directors, and even GRRM have said "oh, well, that scene started out kinda rapey but by the end cersei wanted it and it was mutual wincest!" I guess some women didn't see that as a thing and now are angry at the show crew for something something feminist misogyny perpetuating something something

my wife is one of those and super pissed at the show, she is seriously considering not watching it anymore after that. she didn't watch it until every fucking person on the planet started talking about it, basically a 49ers or Lakers kinda fan
 

spronk

FPS noob
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Wasn't there something in those chapters that indicated Tywin intended to send Tyrion off to Castle Black? I think Jaime telling Tyrion or something close to that. Tywin was a really, really, really harsh dad but he sorta meant well - wanted his children to be better than him, wanted stability for Westeros, and wanted his family to be #1. He did fuck his children up quite a bit by being so unemotional and distant, and warped Tyrion quite a bit, but they were pretty much worthless degenerates who rebelled at everything too.

Just goes to show how good GRMMs writing is, usually the villains and heroes are all so lop sided in their traits.

It will be fascinating to see if the show finally answers the question of whether Tywin was poisoned or not, I have to imagine it'll happen this season finale or early next season while they still got Dance and the other characters in viewers minds.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
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Right, the whole "not all women are like that" trope. Anyway, so as not to risk driving this thread too far off course, I'll simply state that I categorically disagree with your assertions that "not all women are like that". If you'd like further insight as to why, feel free to PM me.
No thread can escape Kirun's misogyny. He can't even be happy with this rape scene, he has to hope that all women really want to be raped.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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No thread can escape Kirun's misogyny. He can't even be happy with this rape scene, he has to hope that all women really want to be raped.
Aren't there studies that show an alarmingly high amount (overwhelming majority) of women do indeed have rape fantasies? I mean, not like real rape... like a man they want just taking them and doing whatever he wants to them in a very aggressive manner.
 

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
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Aren't there studies that show an alarmingly high amount (overwhelming majority) of women do indeed have rape fantasies? I mean, not like real rape... like a man they want just taking them and doing whatever he wants to them in a very aggressive manner.
The number jumped 10000% after 50 shades.

However there is a huge distinction between wanting to be dominated and rape fantasy.
 

Alex

Still a Music Elitist
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Are we so kindergarten that we have to act like rape isn't a thing or something? I don't get outcries when tragic events like that are portrayed. That kind of shit actually happens.
 

Grimmlokk

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Wasn't there something in those chapters that indicated Tywin intended to send Tyrion off to Castle Black?
Tywin tries to placate him with that right before Tyrion shoots him.

If it shows him pale and sweaty while he tries to take a shit, we'll know.
If that's all it takes I've apparently been poisoned really often.


I do hope it turns out we get some indication it's true though, adds some more intrigue=)
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Fewer people seemed to care he pushed a child out a window than he raped the women who already had his children. Then again people have short memories and all of season 03 was his redemption. They seem to forget he is a sister fucker who killed the person he swore to protect.
 

Feanor

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sucks that Belwas didn't make the cut. new Daario looks like a normal, scawny guy. The last Daario was Flavio-ish but he sold the arrogant vibe pretty well which this new guy does not. I don't see how a viewer's supposed to connect that they're even the same character.
I wasn't convinced by the tywin theory but this is pretty convincing lol
ALL LEATHER MUST BE BOILED: Tywin Lannister: Dead Man Shitting?
The only convincing theory I've heard (that I recall) is the Lyanna/Rhaegar/Jon one