Gravy's Cooking Thread

Gravy · Dec 14, 2013

I'm making Christmas gifts today: Spiced Roasted Pecans.

2/3 lb. Pecans
1 Tbl. Ground Red Chili - I'm using x-hot Indian
1/2 Tbl. Garlic Powder
1/4 tsp. Salt
1 tsp. Sugar
1 Tbl. oil

I scorched the second batch; you can't be impatient. Keep the heat below medium. Adjust spices as you like.

The Master · Dec 14, 2013

Hand kneading bread dough is like a 3-5 minutes process if you let it autolyse, let the flour hydrate, for 30 minutes before kneading (i.e., let it sit there while you do nothing). Even with a stand mixer you should do this step, it'll result in fluffier bread.

Is it doubling in size? Are you doing two rises? Do they each double in size?

It sounds like either the yeast are dying or you aren't forming gluten. Given that you think it isn't being agitated enough it is probably gluten formation, but autolysing will fix that 100%. This is the basic straight dough method of making bread. Great place to start.

Erronius · Dec 14, 2013

The article I pulled the recipe from only has one rise of 2 hours. The recipe is mixed throughout a 4 page magazine article in pieces so 99% of it is the literary equivalent of listening to some woman talk about her favorite soap opera while waiting for her to say something important.

The author does suggest that you refrigerate it 'for an hour or so' after the 2 hour rise to make it easier to handle. And if you do, she says"let it rest for 40 to 60 minutes to warm up. If you did not refrigerate the dough, then it is ready now!". The first time I made it I did refrigerate it and then let it sit, so that's probably part of why is wasn't as bad as subsequent attempts where I didn't refrigerate it or let it sit after putting it into pans. This time I did put it in the fridge for 60m (/boggle) and it was a little easier to handle but not enough I feel to warrant it being a necessity. As such I let it sit out for a full hour after that and it did rise again somewhat...though I'm a bit miffed that she didn't call it a rise per se and talked as if that was only needed to "warm the dough up", which is why I didn't do it for the 2nd and 3rd attempts (no refrigeration so straight into the oven it went).

I'm trying these random recipes because when I asked my mother to make me a copy of her old white bread recipe, she instead gave me a few magazines with recipes and some photocopies out of a Cook's Illustrated magazine (which I guess is a magazine spawned from the Test Kitchen show?). And the latter actually made me go "uhhhh..." after reading it, as you actually mix it, let it rise, mix it again, then pour it (yes pour) into the pan. And they actually do call it a batter and not a dough, LOL.

But anyhoo, just put the bread in the oven so here's hoping this turns out better this time around.

Great Ogre Dictator · Dec 14, 2013

Post your recipe so that we can dissect it. However, what type of flour are you using? From how little surface tension there is, I am gonna say you used AP flour; you should be using bread or high gluten flour.

As for reheating your dough from fresh out of the fridge, I recommend parking the shaped dough in your oven or microwave with some sub-boiling, steaming water to bring to room temp.

chaos · Dec 14, 2013

I wouldn't refrigerate unless you are trying to make the dough ahead of time or something. Just adds another level to the already pain in the ass process.

The Master · Dec 15, 2013

If I refrigerate it is a 24 hours rise. Just google Straight Dough Method. There are only a handful of methods for mixing anything for baking, so much so that every professional recipe is usually just a list of ingredients followed by "Combine using the straight dough method/biscuit method/creaming method/etc."

Erronius · Dec 15, 2013

I'll type this as short as possible, but this wasn't written as a discrete recipe (more mixed throughout a magazine article)

3 cups warm water
1 1/2 tablespoons salt (I omitted this a couple times, including tonight)
1 1/2 tablespoons dry yeast
6 1/2 cups all purpose flour

Pour the water into the mixer bowl
Put in the salt, let it sink to the bottom
gently pour in yeast "it will spread over the top"
Dump flour into the bowl and place under mixer
turn mixer on lowest speed until it starts to slow down
turn speed up one notch and wait until it forms a ball
let bread rise for 2~ish hours
possibly refrigerate for an hour for manageability
If you refrigerated, let it warm up for 40m-60m, otherwise "it is ready now"
350 degrees for bread pans for 60m-70m
450 for pizza stone for 30m

Salt didn't seem to make a difference. Nor did yeast really, and I first used up the old packets that I had. I bought a new jar of yeast the other day and used that tonight. For flour I admit that I actually haven't been using AP, but I've been using actual bread flour instead (tried both King Arthur Flour and some other "Gold" brand). The mixer did work better tonight (derp) but I still wonder if it just isn't going to be as good as having an actual large dough hook or paddle. If I do need to just knead then I'll prob just dig around for recipes that call for kneading instead. Tonight's loaves weren't quite as bad as the last ones, but they were close. They rose before I put them in the oven but once baked they were about the same volume (didn't rise in the oven). Crust finishes ok but tastes for like a cracker in a way, but the insides still taste like...well really heavy, like a brick of sourdough. The one loaf I cut into tonight (tasted ok hot with butter) I could see a huge gap where the middle fell down after the top crust had set so that there was a continuous void running under the top crust almost the entire length of one loaf.

I did some googling and found almost the same exact recipe, and I think that is where the author in the magazine I have got hers from. I didn't stop to think that she had mentioned the authors from this site and their book in her magazine article but she did now that I've gone back and looked.

The crunchiest-crackliest-chewiest-lightest-EASIEST bread you??Tll ever bake. | Flourish - King Arthur Flour's blog

I did try adding ice cubes for steam on the first batch but that didn't make a difference that I could tell. All I can think of is let it rise much, much longer or add less water maybe, I dunno. Might just move to a different recipe.

Big Phoenix · Dec 15, 2013

Sounds like you need a tablespoon or two of sugar. Yeast need food if they are to make the spice flow.

Great Ogre Dictator · Dec 15, 2013

Give your yeast a chance to grow before adding the salt: mix the water, flour and yeast together and let them sit for 30-mins before mixing in the saltand forming into a ball and kneading. Give it a first rise until it doubles (start checking after about 20-30-mins), then divide, shape, and place in your pans. Let it get a bench proof in a steamy oven until it doubles again.

Edit: Actually, most of what I typed won't work. You have a 80-85% hydration; it's a batter. Just give the yeast time to work before adding the salt.

chaos · Dec 15, 2013

Yeah, proof the yeast in a bowl prior to mixing all of your ingredients. From what I understand, salt will stop the proofing process so you want to get nice and santorumy yeast before you add your salt.

Great Ogre Dictator · Dec 15, 2013

Found some videos for working a 80% hydration dough; they are using the strech and fold method of kneading (not to be confused with the slap and fold).

The Master · Dec 15, 2013

Omitting salt from bread will make it taste a little like cardboard.

You're not blooming your yeast. Since you aren't using fresh yeast, that is going to be an issue.

No second rise is a problem. That is some really wet dough. Bread is usually 60-75% hydration.

Gravy · Dec 15, 2013

I feel like a food newb. I've never wondered what the hydration of the bread dough I've made is, before now.

Erronius · Dec 15, 2013

I mentioned the second rise in my last post - but that didn't make a noticeable difference this time around. The original recipe (that I've now found after the fact) does specifically say to let it rise when you remove it from the refrigerator, but I have to assume that the author who took this recipe and reprinted it in the magazine that I have didn't seem to think it to be that important. Proofing the yeast doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially when the link I posted last night had a pic where you can see that they just dumped it in with the rest of the ingredients.

The only thing I really see them touch on as a potential issue is the measurement of the flour. I've tried both sifting out 6 1/2 cups flour and just scooping 6 1/2 cups and I got the same results, though they mention that if you "sprinkle" it then use 7 1/2 cups. One would think that if this was the problem though that my attempts when being lazy and just scooping out 6 1/2 of flour would have been close to ideal, whereas in reality the failure has been kind of consistent. I guess I could either increase the flour or lower the amount of water but after this many tries with essentially the same exact results I'm questioning the wisdom of wasting even more materials on it versus moving on to another recipe.

It actually pisses me off because they're just trying to sell a book and products with this recipe, so I imagine that's why their blog for the recipe contains zero complaints or failures. "Foolproof" and "easiest recipe ever" my ass.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recip...e-bread-recipe

Talked to my mother about this this morning and of course she's never tried a recipe like this LOL (but they said it's foolproof so it must be true!). And I guess the reason she was reluctant to give me her old bread recipe is that it's purportedly far more involved than this (she mentioned scalded milk, wtf lol). I'm so glad she decided to give me recipes that she's never tried herself instead.

Thanks for bringing me to the thread chaos, I'ma go back to canned soup now.

Great Ogre Dictator · Dec 15, 2013

Never made a no knead bread before, so I decided to educate myself on some recipes. Here is one that looks damn good, and that you shouldn't have a problem with:

Food Wishes Blog_sl said:
Ingredients:
For the sponge:
1 1/2 teaspoon dry active yeast
1/2 cup AP flour
1/2 cup warm water (about 100 degrees)
Then:
12 oz bottled beer
18 ounces AP flour (about 4 cups)
1 1/2 teaspoon fine salt

chaos · Dec 15, 2013

Erronius_sl said:
I mentioned the second rise in my last post - but that didn't make a noticeable difference this time around. The original recipe (that I've now found after the fact) does specifically say to let it rise when you remove it from the refrigerator, but I have to assume that the author who took this recipe and reprinted it in the magazine that I have didn't seem to think it to be that important. Proofing the yeast doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, especially when the link I posted last night had a pic where you can see that they just dumped it in with the rest of the ingredients.

The only thing I really see them touch on as a potential issue is the measurement of the flour. I've tried both sifting out 6 1/2 cups flour and just scooping 6 1/2 cups and I got the same results, though they mention that if you "sprinkle" it then use 7 1/2 cups. One would think that if this was the problem though that my attempts when being lazy and just scooping out 6 1/2 of flour would have been close to ideal, whereas in reality the failure has been kind of consistent. I guess I could either increase the flour or lower the amount of water but after this many tries with essentially the same exact results I'm questioning the wisdom of wasting even more materials on it versus moving on to another recipe.

It actually pisses me off because they're just trying to sell a book and products with this recipe, so I imagine that's why their blog for the recipe contains zero complaints or failures. "Foolproof" and "easiest recipe ever" my ass.

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recip...e-bread-recipe

Talked to my mother about this this morning and of course she's never tried a recipe like this LOL (but they said it's foolproof so it must be true!). And I guess the reason she was reluctant to give me her old bread recipe is that it's purportedly far more involved than this (she mentioned scalded milk, wtf lol). I'm so glad she decided to give me recipes that she's never tried herself instead.

Thanks for bringing me to the thread chaos, I'ma go back to canned soup now.

Bro, baking is hard. But it is one of those things that once you learn you know it forever.

The Master · Dec 16, 2013

Flour should always be done by weight, not volume. That'll easily lead to inconsistent results.

Bread isn't difficult, just finnicky. Unlike cooking where you can add a little of this, a little of that, baking is more like carpentry. Measure everything, then measure it again. If you're a little off at any point, the whole thing just won't fit together right.

@Gravy: For ease of scaling bakers always refer to a "baker's ratio" or "baker's percentage" where everything in the recipe is measured relative to the amount of flour. So if you have a recipe which is 65% hydrated, that is for every 100g of flour, you add 65g of water. Different water levels give different, very predictable, results. If you ever want to add another liquid, just replace some of the water. Makes it very easy to adjust recipes, scale recipes, etc. Every ingredient is scaled relative to the flour, so the totals will always add up to over 100% because the flour is 100%.

Gravy · Dec 16, 2013

I think I've been extraordinarily lucky then, because I basically do everything wrong.

I measure sloppily, and by volume. I've got a scale that would measure in grams, but I can't be arsed to get it out to bake.

Heck if I know. I've always been lucky with baking.

Big Phoenix · Dec 16, 2013

On that topic whats a good scale and thermometer at a decent price?

Tea_sl · Dec 16, 2013

Gravy_sl said:
I think I've been extraordinarily lucky then, because I basically do everything wrong.

I measure sloppily, and by volume. I've got a scale that would measure in grams, but I can't be arsed to get it out to bake.

Heck if I know. I've always been lucky with baking.

I half ass all my measuring, and I don't even own a kitchen scale. I also make bread all the time. It's all about the feel of the dough.

Gravy's Cooking Thread

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