Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Steroids and HGH are both illegal drugs yes (edit - unless prescribed by a doctor)...but thats my point, they have no reason to bring Clemens to trial unless it was to put away someone like his trainer. Illegal drug or not, a conviction on something like use would be a slap on the wrist.

I dunno, some people have been trying to argue that since Clemens has been convicted of nothing all of this is hearsay and we should leave the guy alone...my point has been if you do any research at all into the guy Clemens has SUBSTANTIAL ties to, his accuser, and the timing of Clemens resurrection of his career you"d have to be real gullible to believe steroids were not involved.

People are missing the point. The report was not intended to crucify individuals, its intention was to expose how prevelant these drugs were/are in baseball and what needs to be done to combat them.

Yes, a lot of individuals were named but they are just examples, nothing more.

Draegan said:

Well technically the Mitchell Report is all hearsay. Eye witness accounts are not enough to hold someone accountable to a crime in federal courts.

I havn"t paid too much attention to this, is there more substantial proof other than a trainer talking?

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We aren"t talking about federal court in Clemens case, it"s the court of public opinion. If you don"t care what people say then it"s no problem. As a fan of his, and I do believe he"s the greatest pitcher that ever lived, I want him to clear his name.
The "trainer talking" aspect of this is why it"s where it is. Andy Pettitte and Roger"s personal trainer has stated that he injected them both with PED"s, Andy has since admitted and apologized, Roger has issued a denial.
I guess I am as jaded as everyone else in that I need more than that now to be convinced he didn"t, fair or not I can"t deny feeling that way.

Ngruk said:

We aren"t talking about federal court in Clemens case, it"s the court of public opinion. If you don"t care what people say then it"s no problem. As a fan of his, and I do believe he"s the greatest pitcher that ever lived, I want him to clear his name.
The "trainer talking" aspect of this is why it"s where it is. Andy Pettitte and Roger"s personal trainer has stated that he injected them both with PED"s, Andy has since admitted and apologized, Roger has issued a denial.
I guess I am as jaded as everyone else in that I need more than that now to be convinced he didn"t, fair or not I can"t deny feeling that way.

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Agreed. (wait, except the greatest pitcher part, thats Sandy Koufax. )

I graduated from the University of Texas and over on the texas scout board we all think he is guilty. Sucks because he is one of our own. What"s worse is that he could have come out and really helped his image by admitting use.

I do want to say that I havent put him on the cross yet, but the evidence as far as timelines go is pretty damning. Look at his career before the alledged use and after. Plus he was in his mid to late 30s when his numbers started becoming all worldly. Sounds a bit like someone else we know.

Hey Curt, how difficult would it be/ is it to rat someone out who is using steroids. I would think it would be smart of you not to comment on this question, but if steroid use is as wide spread as most people now believe, you must have seen or heard about teammates using steroids over the years. It is pretty naive to think otherwise. Again, if you comment on this, be careful

Twobit Whore said:

People are missing the point. The report was not intended to crucify individuals, its intention was to expose how prevelant these drugs were/are in baseball and what needs to be done to combat them.

Yes, a lot of individuals were named but they are just examples, nothing more.

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And I think that many of you are missing the point. The report did crucify these guys. Even if these guys have irrefutable proof that they didn"t cheat, to many fans and reporters, they will still have tainted legacies. Clemens could spend millions in a legal defense and make the gov"t and MLB look stupid. But since they were in the Mitchell Report, to some, they will always be guilty.

I feel bad for these guys. Its like Clemens said, he built a reputation for 25 years, and now they are trying to destroy it. I am not a fan of Clemens, but I still feel bad for the guy.

Lyrical said:

The report did crucify these guys.

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No ESPN and the public are doing that. Yes, that is an unfortunate byproduct but Mitchell specifically said that was not the intent and people need to try to keep it in context. Obviously that"s a practical impossibilty thanks to ESPN and sportswriters worldwide.

Ngruk said:

We aren"t talking about federal court in Clemens case, it"s the court of public opinion. If you don"t care what people say then it"s no problem. As a fan of his, and I do believe he"s the greatest pitcher that ever lived, I want him to clear his name.
The "trainer talking" aspect of this is why it"s where it is. Andy Pettitte and Roger"s personal trainer has stated that he injected them both with PED"s, Andy has since admitted and apologized, Roger has issued a denial.
I guess I am as jaded as everyone else in that I need more than that now to be convinced he didn"t, fair or not I can"t deny feeling that way.

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1- Since when is the government or MLB allowed to try someone in any court other than the legal one? This is why we have a constitution, so that one"s rights are guaranteed. When they get sued for defamation of charachter, I hope they get what is coming to them.

Taking PED"s might be illegal, but so is defamation of charachter (or some variant of that law).

2- Based on your comments, if there are multiple players found on the Red Sox (or any other team) where you have won championships to have taken PED"s, shouldn"t you have to give up your team championship? After all, in this theoretical case, the whole team benefitted from PED"s, even if it was not known by everyone on the team. How do you, as a public figure, think that it is OK to do this? Someone could do the same to you tomorrow. Assuming you haven"t taken PED"s, wouldn"t it bother you (even if you proved you didn"t take drugs), that some people would now brand you as a cheater?

Having been involved in a non-profit charity that gave me pretty high visibility in a city"s area civics (trying to help inner-city and underprivileged youths), sometimes you"d have stuff lobbed your way that made no sense. I had several people say things (and put them in writing) that had not even a shred of truth to them. And they did it for no other reason than to make their interests look better. Here I was trying to help people, and yet another entity might get jealous and try to ruin my reputation. Its nothing what a pro player goes through, but it always bothered the hell out of me. Here I am, in a non-paid position and somebody makes slanderous remarks. So am I going to need to spend my own money to get lawyers involved?

In this case, some of these guys are going to have to spend millions to get a shred of their reputations back. The whole situation makes me want to puke.

Ngruk said:

We aren"t talking about federal court in Clemens case, it"s the court of public opinion. If you don"t care what people say then it"s no problem. As a fan of his, and I do believe he"s the greatest pitcher that ever lived, I want him to clear his name.
The "trainer talking" aspect of this is why it"s where it is. Andy Pettitte and Roger"s personal trainer has stated that he injected them both with PED"s, Andy has since admitted and apologized, Roger has issued a denial.
I guess I am as jaded as everyone else in that I need more than that now to be convinced he didn"t, fair or not I can"t deny feeling that way.

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Oh I agree its a public opinion matter on this. I"m angry about this as well since I"m a very big fan of his as well. Being a Yanks fan I hate how some of my favorite players have cheated. I don"t like it but I tend to get protective, but I agree about everything in a public opinion aspect. He should come out and admit to it, get it over with if it is indeed true.

I can"t pass judgement.

Twobit Whore said:

No ESPN and the public are doing that. Yes, that is an unfortunate byproduct but Mitchell specifically said that was not the intent and people need to try to keep it in context. Obviously that"s a practical impossibilty thanks to ESPN and sportswriters worldwide.

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There have been many times in court where intent hasn"t mattered. I see where you are coming from, but the other side of this is that some of these guys will be known in history as cheaters. There are two sides to this coin. With a report like this, you run the risk of innocent players getting accused. And this is even though there wasn"t enough proof to prosecute them. They also didn"t fail any tests.

want to know the tell tale signs to me?

If someone says something about someone that is untrue and cuases them harm it is against the law and called slander and/or defamation of character.

So why hasn"t barry bonds files suit against the people who wrote the book against him?

The same reason Clemens didnt file suit against everyone involved in the mitchell report already. ..

put 2 and 2 together, celebrities file slander suits all the time and this is huge, they are getting their names ruined. You think if they didn"t take anything they wouldn"t have filed lawsuits already?

Bongk said:

want to know the tell tale signs to me?

If someone says something about someone that is untrue and cuases them harm it is against the law and called slander and/or defamation of character.

So why hasn"t barry bonds files suit against the people who wrote the book against him?

The same reason Clemens didnt file suit against everyone involved in the mitchell report already. ..

put 2 and 2 together, celebrities file slander suits all the time and this is huge, they are getting their names ruined. You think if they didn"t take anything they wouldn"t have filed lawsuits already?

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Wait a second. Just because someone doesn"t want to spend millions of dollars trying to prove defamation (which is harder to do for public figures because the courts have decided this), they are guilty? What is wrong with this mentality? And also, for Clemens, its only been a week. We"ll see what he does to protect his rep. As it has been said on ESPN, Clemens is one of the few players that could afford to get into a "no-holds barred" case against the gov"t and MLB. I will say it again - in the US, we are innocent before proved guilty. But this process is trying athletes in the court of opinion, and is saying that they are guilty before proved innocent. I would expect this behaviour in a socialist or communist country.

If Clemens goes to court the best he could hope for is "he said-she said" bullshit. Put his credibility on the line vs. the accuser"s. That"s best case for him and likely won"t happen. What will happen is people will get subpoenad and be forced to testify. People like Andy Pettite.

Lyrical said:

Wait a second. Just because someone doesn"t want to spend millions of dollars trying to prove defamation (which is harder to do for public figures because the courts have decided this), they are guilty? What is wrong with this mentality? And also, for Clemens, its only been a week. We"ll see what he does to protect his rep. As it has been said on ESPN, Clemens is one of the few players that could afford to get into a "no-holds barred" case against the gov"t and MLB. I will say it again - in the US, we are innocent before proved guilty. But this process is trying athletes in the court of opinion, and is saying that they are guilty before proved innocent.

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Curt would know best but wouldnt the players union supply his lawyer? so it would be free?

And even if the didn"t and it cost him millions he will lose out on far more than that in all the shit that goes along with the hall of fame and being a super star such as public speakings, endorsements, etc...

Many people are always going to see a big * next to his name regardless of how this all turns out. Does he really want to go the Pete Rose route? People are a lot more forgiving in this country if you make a sincere apology after a screw up. Granted its a screwup that (if true!) will permanently tarnish his accomplishments to a degree even if he comes clean on it.

Either way its a horrible time for baseball.

I would say Curt has already weighed in on this matter....

Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling calls on Roger Clemens to clear his name or else give back awards

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On Yahoo right now

Yeah.. that"s what we are discussing. And practically everyone on ESPN is ripping on Curt for it heh.

Why are they ripping on Curt for saying the obvious? I am a HUGE fan of baseball and previously I was a fan of Roger Clemens. Hell, I am sure there aren"t many baseball fans out there that weren"t a fan of Roger Clemens from back in the Red Sox days all the way through now. However, putting Roger"s accomplishments in the record books ahead of tremendous old school pitchers is just wrong *if* what has been alleged is true. If they would make an example of some real superstars by kicking them out of the game and banning them from the hall of fame, at least then maybe baseball will gain some integrity again.

I am truly sad about the condition of major league baseball

The only thing i dont like is that people are now guilty until proven innocent. I dont know if he did or didnt use, but no one ever gets the benefit of the doubt anymore.

gnomad said:

I would say Curt has already weighed in on this matter....



On Yahoo right now

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We know.