Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling
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I don"t think you can compare the EQ2 launch to VG, the MMO market has exploded since then thanks to WoW. There"s 5-6 million people in north america playing mmo"s now which was unheard of back then. I think VG"s peak subscribers will be quite high as a result.
I don"t for a second think they will maintain a number of subs anywhere near the peak but I think in the first month they will sell quite a bit as people try to expand on their new MMO/WoW affections
I don"t for a second think they will maintain a number of subs anywhere near the peak but I think in the first month they will sell quite a bit as people try to expand on their new MMO/WoW affections
While this thread is primarily about Curt"s new company, other MMOs and events within the industry can have an effect on how he goes about running GMG. While it may seem like a trivial question to many, gaining an insight into how gamers perceive Vanguard"s launch (in terms of numbers and success) could certainly be utilized and applied to GMG"s upcoming title.Khane said:
me, personally. I have tried to go back to eq2 a couple timesbut no fun there for me after a week. It is like wow for me in that regard for a week it is a great game that it just dies in terms of fun and becomes repetitive and boring.Plorkyeran said:
I still play alot of AO on and off as it is really the only original MMOG on the scene that isnt a eq clone. It at least feels like I am playing a different game, but it is still very flawed.
Been playing VG beta the last couple months i got in around halloween. But cant play hardcore as i know it is all for nothing and will be wiped.
Played some LOTRO but i havent given that more than maybe 5 hours and I was bored solid already.
Mostly i have had to turn to single player and console gaming coupled with shitty TV.
Keep in mind, the vast majority of people who were done with EQ and wanting to move on were -pissed- at Sony in general if I remember correctly, and the hype was coming from WoW, not Sony at the time anyway. The early adopters of EQ2 were probably by and the large people who still had active EQ accounts and were hoping it would be a continuation of their previous experience.
At least Vanguard isn"t titled EQ3!
At least Vanguard isn"t titled EQ3!
Wrong and largely diffused assumption. WoW has exploded, not the MMO market.bitch are your retarded? said:
You want WoW players for your own MMO? Good luck. The market today is HARDER than how it was three years ago.
All the recently released MMO pretty much failed. Vanguard won"t be different.
The idea that WoW opened up the market for other companies is a myth that devs are using as a way to find foundings from all those people out there with lots of money but no brain. And it works.
So. WoW was a good thing because now it"s easier for MMO companies to find the monies. But it"s a dream with short legs.
WoW is a MMO. The market has increased due to it being released, as there are more MMO players.. there"s no way you can win this argurment. Also, don"t think that every player still exists in the WoW world, there"s probably more that have quit than those that are subscribed to it now. They may or may not be willing to give another MMO a shot.Abalieno said:
But really there hasn"t been a hyped MMO to release since WoW"s release. And I don"t count DDO or Guild Wars as MMO"s really. I know you can argue with that, but they aren"t even close to being alike. Vanguard will be the first big thing to release since WoW, we"ll see if it fails or not.
I agree and disagree -Abalieno said:
I"d agree that the market is harder, in that a "better" MMO needs to be released now in order to gain even a portion of the subs that WoW has. Wasn"t it reported that WoW cost almost 4 times to develop than many of the MMO"s which were created at roughly the same time?
More cash, more development time, easier access (i.e. solo content, decent questing system, well laid out zone structure) to a larger base of players is whats needed. Gameplay and the UI needs to be spot on.
I"d disagree that its not possible for another MMO to achieve similar results. Sure - Blizzard had a good name, and probably quite a few subs from Bnet.
But if you have a kick ass game with a killer release- players will come - hell they will come in droves, WoW already brought them to the market.
I even think the Beta for WoW was one of its biggest draw"s. People loved the game in Beta (with a couple gameplay exceptions, like the exp penalty for long periods of play time.. but I think most folks understood it was beta)
We all have our gripes - but WoW is a damn good game, especially pre-max level. But its still got a lot of room to improve. Find a way to do that - and you"ll have no problems getting players.
-V
The problem with the MMO"s released recently is that they are all trying too hard to capitalize on the new market share WoW has opened up, and these companies are barely putting a year or two into these games, and expect it to compete with WoW? WoW was under dev for 5+ years? Millions upon millions were spent bankrolling this game - and it paid off in spades. When companies realize they can"t just push out some pile of crap, then maybe we"ll see some successful mmo"s, but unfortunately I see alot of the same, same, same. The only shining light of hope being EvE of course.
If anything Curt - look towards EvE/CCP for inspriation, they have their heads on straight. Between that and WoW you can"t really go wrong.
If anything Curt - look towards EvE/CCP for inspriation, they have their heads on straight. Between that and WoW you can"t really go wrong.
Rather than a bunch of scheming developers looking to take advantage of investor naivet?, often it"s a case of venture capitalists looking for ways to compound their money seeking out hot trends like WoW"s splash in the MMO market.Abalieno said:
But anyway, I question the notion that WoW has a unique market that won"t shift to any other MMO. Whenever there is a huge success in a given movie genre (fantasy, superhero, horror, etc.) there are a dozen similar movies released afterward. Those that are good films become hits while the poorly made ones tank. But to say that no fantasy movie could be a huge hit after the Lord of the Rings trilogy"s success would be absurd; it all depends on the quality of the movie.
With games, I believe a game that is fun, polished, well-marketed, and easily available for purchase and play can absolutely attract WoW players as well as a huge segment of the population that never tried MMOs before. It comes down to the quality of the game and the ability for the average person to see it, want it, buy it, install it, and enjoy it.
That"s a rather simplistic way to put it, but there is no shortage of companies that managed to screw up one or more of those steps horribly.
I"m going to have to agree with Steve on this one. WoW has turned so many of my non-gaming friends into gamers. One of my best friends is someone who was never into fantasy novels, roleplaying games, or fantasy movies. She"d never seen LoTR, Star Wars, or any of those types of movies. She"d never owned a console game in her life, and only tried The Sims once for a week when it first came out. She watched me playing a Night Elf in WoW and the next day went out to Best Buy and bought a "brand new super awesome computer!!!!" (It was an HP for like 500 bucks) and bought WoW. She became quickly addicted and now because of the game she"s now out reading fansites and forums, she bought a PS2 and a DS, she rented LoTR and Star Wars and bought a couple fantasy novels by RA Salvatore.
She also now is all about trying other MMO"s. I tried to explain to her that the computer she bought may run WoW perfectly, but its not going to run EQ2 or VG:SoH for shit. She"s not the only one I know who started out with WoW as their first MMO and then moved to EQ2 or another game. I"d say that WoW did a fantastic job of getting these people through the door and welcoming them to the land of MMO addiction -- but I wouldn"t say these people are stuck with WoW. There is a definite potential for something truly awesome to be released that could end up gaining a lot of WoW"s subscribers. Its not beyond the realm of possibilities.
She also now is all about trying other MMO"s. I tried to explain to her that the computer she bought may run WoW perfectly, but its not going to run EQ2 or VG:SoH for shit. She"s not the only one I know who started out with WoW as their first MMO and then moved to EQ2 or another game. I"d say that WoW did a fantastic job of getting these people through the door and welcoming them to the land of MMO addiction -- but I wouldn"t say these people are stuck with WoW. There is a definite potential for something truly awesome to be released that could end up gaining a lot of WoW"s subscribers. Its not beyond the realm of possibilities.
Like World of Starcraft?Cuppycake said:
On a more serious note, I have a friend exactly like that, too. He had never really played any video games seriously (dabbled a bit in a few, but never addicted to anything) and certainly never read fantasy books or cared much for Tolkein-esque games.
After watching me and my former roommate play WoW for a month, he asked to create a character on one of our accounts, got addicted, levelled the char to mid 30"s (at which point we started getting annoyed that my roommate could not play while he was on his account) and then he went out and bought his own copy.
I bet there are millions of such stories.
WoW was great for the genre. Period.
The market has a lot more exposure due to WOW which is a good thing all around and should have created a larger player base that other companies can pull from. However, as Moorgard said, companies tend to screw up the execution of facets of their game and thusly can"t get subscribers to migrate.
You also have the "strike while the iron is hot" in these games and that is your launch window and the first few hours of play. By all accounts EQ2 is a much better game now than it was at release, yet it hasn"t benefitted from the WOW exposure to any noticeable degree due to the fact all of its changes came years after its initial launch.
The degree of polish and fun that WOW provides makes the subscriber a much harder sell for other games even as it is bringing in new people to the genre. In some ways it is a double edged sword; WOW brings new folks to the table but it gives them a set of expectations for a game that very few publishers have been able to provide.
You also have the "strike while the iron is hot" in these games and that is your launch window and the first few hours of play. By all accounts EQ2 is a much better game now than it was at release, yet it hasn"t benefitted from the WOW exposure to any noticeable degree due to the fact all of its changes came years after its initial launch.
The degree of polish and fun that WOW provides makes the subscriber a much harder sell for other games even as it is bringing in new people to the genre. In some ways it is a double edged sword; WOW brings new folks to the table but it gives them a set of expectations for a game that very few publishers have been able to provide.
Not as an assumption.Moorgard Mobhunter said:
It"s a mistake to consider that as an open market.
1- It WAS a mistake thinking that this market didn"t exist before WoW.
2- It is a mistake NOW to believe that this market is independent from WoW.
BOTH are mistakes. What people think change with the wind. You have to figure out what"s real and what"s perception. The fact that the MMO market grew for everyone is a wrong perception.
SURE. But that"s the point.
To be wrong is the assumption that you automatically have WoW"s players and that today the MMO market is easier because there"s a larger public to feed.
The "Vision" isn"t about stealing someone else"s pie. The Vision is anticipating something that isn"t here yet. A successful game has to move past WoW, not behind it.
The product makes the market. First you have the product, then you have the resulting market. The STUPID idea is that there"s a market that can be fed every sort of product just because there"s an implicit demand.
What I"m saying is: the market may be slightly bigger due to exposition, but it"s not as big as people think to justify all this enthusiasm and all sort of stupid start ups. It"s a growth, but it"s a growth completely compensated and overwhelmed by the stronger competition.
Making a MMO today isn"t simpler than how it was five years ago. Arguably, it"s HARDER, more risky and likely to fail.
Not to mention cheaper, I know if it weren"t for the extra 200+ bucks a year I"d love to subscribe to EQII to play on occasion. It is hard to be casual when you"re paying near the cost of a new game every 2 months.
But to say that the market is closed to new games if foolish. Blizzard is a humongous name, but Bioware is very large, R.A. Salvatore is another big name. Star Wars done right would do very well too. Basically it is very difficult for new games to come out of no where but similarly big names can compete for the large numbers Warcraft has.
But to say that the market is closed to new games if foolish. Blizzard is a humongous name, but Bioware is very large, R.A. Salvatore is another big name. Star Wars done right would do very well too. Basically it is very difficult for new games to come out of no where but similarly big names can compete for the large numbers Warcraft has.
