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Gun control
- Thread starter Saladus
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
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Republican Sen. Greg Ball:
"We haven't saved any lives tonight, except one: the political life of a governor who wants to be president," said Ball who represents part of the Hudson Valley. "We have taken an entire category of firearms that are currently legal that are in the homes of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. ... We are now turning those law-abiding citizens into criminals."
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Prediction, gun violence will increase in NY state because there will be fewer guns, etc, to be a warning. Then they'll look at these increased violence and use it as a way to ban all guns. NY state is already 9/10ths of the way there.
"We haven't saved any lives tonight, except one: the political life of a governor who wants to be president," said Ball who represents part of the Hudson Valley. "We have taken an entire category of firearms that are currently legal that are in the homes of law-abiding, tax paying citizens. ... We are now turning those law-abiding citizens into criminals."
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Prediction, gun violence will increase in NY state because there will be fewer guns, etc, to be a warning. Then they'll look at these increased violence and use it as a way to ban all guns. NY state is already 9/10ths of the way there.
Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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That's only one section of the bill, read on and there's other defnitions.
And quit using the word CLIP. The only firearm anyone is likely to still use that requres a clip is a WWII surplus M1.
Also Heller Vs. DC specifically addressed gun registration as "an undue burden". Both the McDonald case and Heller case the supreme court put in their decision that any regulation on firearms needed to be based on function rather than appearance, which is exactly what this law does.
One of the key points of the Heller case was that they didn't want to restrict guns that civilians could own if law enforcement could use them. Since in most areas you can own and purchase a fully automatic rifle thru the 1934 National Firearms Act I would be curious to see what they do with these restrictions which will apply on to civilians and not law enforcement.
It is vague in the sense that there is so much overlap you cant make out exactly what weapons could actually be legal. Instead of saying "ban semi automatic firearms" , it specifically bans individual features of every single semi auto i can think of. And they know this. Now they can say, hey we didnt want to ban semi auto weapons! We just didnt like those particular features.
Cant believe i just wrote a sentance with ban, and semi auto in it... What a horrible time for the 2A.
Cant believe i just wrote a sentance with ban, and semi auto in it... What a horrible time for the 2A.
The other definitions are similar. The next one reads:
Maybe link some of the sections you find vague.
My bad on "clip". I hope using that word instead of magazine did not make my point difficult to understand. As I said before, I haven't actually read Heller, but from what I've gathered, words in Heller about registration may be non-binding discussion beyond the scope of the case. I'm not sure and not concerned enough to go read Heller. The NY law will certainly be attacked in court on 2A grounds. It's vagueness grounds that seem like a stretch to me.
/edit to address Throne
I'm far from a gun guy, but I did get a single shot youth .22 as a Christmas gift back in the day. At the shooting range I saw a .22 rifle where one loaded bullets into a small tube found below the barrel (again, not a gun guy, no idea of the proper term). One could then fire multiple times without reloading. I don't see why such a rifle would be illegal under the law.
Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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Here's a perfect example of vague.
Under the new law....is a 8 or 9 shot revolver legal or not?
Nobody knows.
Get to the part where they ban a semi automatic firearm is there is a fully automatic version. Production version or able to be converted to fully automatic or what?
Some model glocks are available from the factory so the semi automatic version would be illegal. But you can buy a full auto 1911, does that all make all 1911's illegal or not?
Under the new law....is a 8 or 9 shot revolver legal or not?
Nobody knows.
Get to the part where they ban a semi automatic firearm is there is a fully automatic version. Production version or able to be converted to fully automatic or what?
Some model glocks are available from the factory so the semi automatic version would be illegal. But you can buy a full auto 1911, does that all make all 1911's illegal or not?
Oh, no. By example I meant link me language from that law that you find vague.
But because I'm such a charitable interlocutor:
Note the new law is an update to an older law. Caps are additions to the statute. Bracketed items will be removed from the statute.
8 or 9 shot revolvers do not use magazines, belt drums, or feed strips, as I understand them. Also, I think it's explicitly exempting the type of rifle I mentioned seeing at a range as a child.
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Where exactly are you reading this from ? The Heller case dealt specifically with handguns used in the home for self defense. DC barred the possession of a handgun without registration, but when Heller tried to register his gun, his registration was denied, which in effect resulted in a prohibition of the handgun. So it goes like this:
1. Want hand gun ? You have to register
2. Try to register ? We won't give you registration.
3. Because you can't have handgun if you don't register, and because you can't register because we won't let you register, then this is an effective ban on having handguns.
So if anything, the plaintiff in this case wanted to register his gun, because registration was needed before he could possess his handgun. I don't see the words undue burden anywhere in the decision. The case I'm reading is 128 S. Ct. 2783.
Edit: Found the second case, reading now.
Only if you assume that "the government" only applies to the federal government. But that would be ridiculous.
That's normal for most laws.
Also, on a reasonable reading of that statute, a stripper clip that contains more than seven rounds of ammunition is a large capacity ammunition feeding device because it is a device similar to a magazine and it contains more than seven founds of ammunition.
I don't know what a strip loader is so I can't address that one.
Courts work that sort of stuff out and it becomes case law.
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I'm just commenting on one part of your post, I haven't followed whatever debate you're in the middle of. NYS could take this exact same approach to outright ban assault weapons. All existing ones have to be registered. They can simply deny the registration for whatever reason. Ouch. Fucking nazi state.
Zodiac
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Just fyi, stipper clips don't feed guns - they are a device to load magazines.
Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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I'll have to look up my notes on the Heller case. I'm about to crash. I was up late reading the law in NY and spent the day out of town at a hospital with a relative.
I'm going on about 36 hours with no sleep so maybe I am confused on the actual case.
I'm going on about 36 hours with no sleep so maybe I am confused on the actual case.
khalid
Unelected Mod
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Borzak
Bronze Baron of the Realm
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Nobody knows. A "feed strip" is a term which has no real meaning. Maybe they mean stripper clip which loads a magazine.
Maybe they meant a speed strip which is used to load a revolver. It will get hammered out in court I imagine.
One loads a magazine, another loads the cylinder of a revolver. I have a pretty good idea what they thought they were saying, but they threw a bunch of terms out there that really didn't mean anything.
Stripper clip
Speed strip