Gun control

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Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Yes it is the end of the world, because it doesnt stop at armed guards at schools. It leads to a lot slew of other bullshit that everyone will be dealing with in the future(hint hint, Illinois and their most recent legislation).
 
chaos

chaos

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Really? Armed guards at schools, which have already existed forever, is the end of the world? 2nd Amendment out the window because of armed guards at schools? You need to get a grip, bro.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Yes it is the end of the world, because it doesnt stop at armed guards at schools. It leads to a lot slew of other bullshit that everyone will be dealing with in the future(hint hint, Illinois and their most recent legislation).
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This is going to sound psycho/stupid, but... Man, honestly the best thing to do about what happened is nothing. Armed guards won't do shit. Honestly if some psychopath wants to kill a bunch of kids there's not much we can do to stop them at that point. Armed guards are just an illusion of security, and any shithead could pick them off from a 1/4 mile away with any rifle. Spending billions on armed guards is just like the TWA, where it's an illusion of security, but people can still sneak shit past them because they are borderline retards. Similarly, anyone who's hired to be a guard at a middle school isn't going to be some highly trained operative, they will probably be a fat retarded elderly goober. We can't ban guns because that's just idiotic to punish 99.999999% of responsible gun owners because 1 person is a psychopath.

There's just no really good answer. Shit happens, and it's fucking tragic. I don't know enough / haven't considered enough the idea of teachers being armed if they pass a gun safety course, etc, but as someone already said, the idea of a teacher having to babysit 30 kids in addition to minding their firearm sounds like a nightmare. The only thing I can think of is improved mental health care, but the truth is we aren't that good at controlling many things, and all it takes is a patient being non-compliant with medication and then they are off the deep end. During residency I saw 6 year olds with over 5 psychiatric diagnoses (bipolar, adhd, ptsd, impulse control disorder, oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, etc) being treated with a slew of psych meds. Usually born to equally screwed up parents, and usually abused physically, mentally, and sexually in childhood (being forced to have sex with a dog or else get hit by a 2x4), and these kids don't have a chance in hell in being normal growing up. I don't know much if anything about treating these types of patients, because it was completely outside of what I wanted to do and what I felt comfortable with, and I only saw them because one of my attendings was especially interested in that and ended up treating many child psych patients (basically on medicaid child psychiatrists in our area.)

Did anyone read this article?http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/ma...anted=all&_r=0

But again, what solution do have? Lock them up early? Obviously we can't do that.

(Sorry this is so scatterbrained, in a huge rush and have to poop before I head to work.)
 
chaos

chaos

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
You did read and understand the meaning behind my post, right?
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I understand the slippery slope argument, I just don't buy it. Armed guards in schools are nothing new and aren't threatening anyone's gun rights. Like Tuco said, it is just a feel good measure for the region directly effected by a horrible shooting. I don't think you can extend that same mentality that leads people wanting some measure of even false security to passing restrictive gun laws that otherwise wouldn't have passed anyway.
 
Z

Zombie Thorne_sl

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I agree with you Aych. I really hope i dont come off as some uncarring bastard, because i really do care. But... Shit happens. It sucks, it really does, but until our society as a whole changes it is going to continue to happen. Throwing more money at issues and preventative regulations RARELY help. I wish the answer was as simple as giving 500M to each states public school system. Would that help? Maybe, but probably not...

Until we can get parents to actually parent and teach thier kids some basic morality this shit is just going to become the norm. It's almost like we live in a world of internet trolls =(
I am not religious in any way, but like that black woman told Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys II, "Ya'll muther fuckers need some jeezus"
 
chaos

chaos

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Thorne_sl said:
I agree with you Aych. I really hope i dont come off as some uncarring bastard, because i really do care. But... Shit happens. It sucks, it really does, but until our society as a whole changes it is going to continue to happen. Throwing more money at issues and preventative regulations RARELY help. I wish the answer was as simple as giving 500M to each states public school system. Would that help? Maybe, but probably not...

Until we can get parents to actually parent and teach thier kids some basic morality this shit is just going to become the norm. It's almost like we live in a world of internet trolls =(
I am not religious in any way, but like that black woman told Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys II, "Ya'll muther fuckers need some jeezus"
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Do you think that parents don't parent their kids now and teach them morality? I mean, it isn't as if this is some regular occurrence at schools across the country, we know our schools are relatively safe. I don't know what will help it. Crazy motherfucker had access to weapons and for whatever reason wanted to kill his mom and a bunch of kids. I don't know how you regulate to prevent that from happening, or what program you can institute to stop a random guy from going off every now and then. That doesn't mean it isn't worth analyzing and trying to figure out if there is a hole somewhere.
 
Z

Zombie Thorne_sl

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chaos_sl said:
Do you think that parents don't parent their kids now and teach them morality?
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As a generalization across the country? Yes i think they do. In the areas of the country with the most violence? No, i dont think they do at all. Look at the worst places we have, Los Angeles, DC, Chicago parts of AL and LA... It is poor white trash/ethnics/martians that are horrible parents breeding horrible offspring. I wish it wasnt the case, because just reading that makes me sound like a racist fuck. But is it wrong?
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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chaos_sl said:
Yeah I don't think you are the best judge of how distorted someone else's perception is.
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we'll it's a good thing then than I don't care what you think you know, only what you can prove.



Milton Friendman says the same thing, placing too high a value on human life distorts reality.
 
chaos

chaos

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fanaskin_sl said:
we'll it's a good thing then than I don't care what you think you know, only what you can prove.



Milton Friendman says the same thing, placing too high a value on human life distorts reality.
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Bro, I don't give a shit what Milton Friendman or any of your other imaginary friends think. That is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read. Literally. Everything we have or do is in support of human life. Every system, every product, every concept, EVERYTHING. It is the single most valuable and valued thing in existence. But hey fanaskin doesn't think so, and he is correct ever, so yeah.
 
Z

Zhaun_sl

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chaos_sl said:
If you project that fear onto them, sure. There is a middle ground between not caring and locking your kids in a closet. I think it is natural to put yourself into these situations that have aspects you can relate to. In the Sandy Hook shooting situation, I have young kids and can easily empathize with the situation. I think it is natural that some of those thoughts would intrude into your life and make you question your own safety or that of your children. Ultimately, yeah, you have to go on with life, you can't be a crazy shutin because something bad happened halfway across the country.

But in the case of the story I was referencing there, this is the direct vicinity of the shooting. Something horrible like this happening far away that only impacts you in some abstract, emotional way is one thing. This is literally down the interstate that this happened, or even closer. I don't think it is unreasonable for people in that community to want some kind of security.
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I think projecting emotions onto children is a very subtle thing. I think they pick up on little cues in inobvious ways and it influences them more than a lot of people realize.

I don't think vicinity matters at all. This wasn't like the DC Sniper where there is some nutter still out there shooting at elementary school kids so there is a continuing concern here. This is an unfortunate, one-off event that can happen anywhere at any time. There is no higher likelyhood it will happen again in CT than it will in FL or TX or CA.

I'm not saying "People sholdn't care about their kids!", in fact I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying there isn't much of a rasonable course to take here to protect the kids that isn't likely to traumatize them as well. The same way one needs to put on a breave face and let their kid get on a bike and ride, even though they may crash and sever their spinal column and never walk again, you have to smile when you drop your kids off for school and wait until you drive around the corner before you cry histericly that they may be shot by some nut.
 
khalid

khalid

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chaos_sl said:
That is literally the stupidest thing I have ever read. Literally. Everything we have or do is in support of human life. Every system, every product, every concept, EVERYTHING. It is the single most valuable and valued thing in existence.
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I don't know if you watched the video or just hate Fanaskin or what, but the video makes a perfectly valid point. If all you care about is the life of humans, then you end up advocating extreme positions like wanting to ban all automobiles or wanting to ban swimming pools. After all, they arent strictly "necessary" and lots of people die with them.

Same if they were to utterly ban all guns and remove them from the entire US. Yes that would probably result in a fewer number of murders and suicides. However, I happen to believe that my 2nd amendment rights and the rights of everyone else in the US is worth more than that.
 
Z

Zhaun_sl

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khalid_sl said:
I don't know if you watched the video or just hate Fanaskin or what, but the video makes a perfectly valid point. If all you care about is the life of humans, then you end up advocating extreme positions like wanting to ban all automobiles or wanting to ban swimming pools. After all, they arent strictly "necessary" and lots of people die with them.

Same if they were to utterly ban all guns and remove them from the entire US. Yes that would probably result in a fewer number of murders and suicides. However, I happen to believe that my 2nd amendment rights and the rights of everyone else in the US is worth more than that.
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This is America and we have the second amendment in our Constitution and so we're stuck with guns until we get rid of it. I get that. Agree with it or not, it is there and we have it, deal with it.

However, do people really feel that their "Right to have guns to form a militia" is really a key human right, like free speech, freedom from slavery, freedom to not be raped and murdered by other people, stuff like that?
 
khalid

khalid

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Zhaun_sl said:
However, do people really feel that their "Right to have guns to form a militia" is really a key human right, like free speech, freedom from slavery, freedom to not be raped and murdered by other people, stuff like that?
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I certainly feel that way. Having the right to bear arms in this country guarantees that collectively we have the ability to guarantee all those other rights won't be taken away.

Even separate from that is the concept of always having the right of self-defense. Without firearms suddenly everything comes down to who is stronger. Guns equalize that, which always makes me shocked that more women aren't pro-gun.
 
opiate82

opiate82

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Most of what you listed are basic human rights. I would think that freedom from tyranny is also a basic human right and the 2nd amendment helps facilitate that.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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Zhaun_sl said:
This is America and we have the second amendment in our Constitution and so we're stuck with guns until we get rid of it. I get that. Agree with it or not, it is there and we have it, deal with it.

However, do people really feel that their "Right to have guns to form a militia" is really a key human right, like free speech, freedom from slavery, freedom to not be raped and murdered by other people, stuff like that?
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yes, infact all those points are related.

the gun is the great equalizer that allows the weak to protect against the strong.


here is a simple logical diagram of a power struggle with and without guns
in this case the criminal is younger and physically stronger than the victim which isn't a giant leap from most scenarios as criminals more often than not prey on the weak.


criminal has gun ----------++--- criminal has no gun
victim has no gun----------++--- victim has gun

criminal wins--------------++---victim wins
________________________________________

criminal has no gun--------++--- criminal has gun
victim has no gun ---------++--- victim has gun

criminal wins---------------++---50/50 tie
 
Z

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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I could sign on to everyone doing 2 years of madatory service and having a locker at home with an assult rifle like several other countries do.

I still don't think our society would benefit from everyone walking around with a handgun. Maybe after a decade of us shooting each other for stupid shit we'd straighten out some though.
 
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