Gun control

aychamo_sl said:

Thank you. And look who is sitting up there at #6. I'm trying to find data for the U.S., I seem to find around 475 per 100,000. Jeez, about half of Canada even. So, thank you Canadians who post in this thread telling us about all our troubles. Tell me, how did your own country end up with such a ridiculously high violent crime rate?

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What part of ""violent crime" is typically pretty tough to compare from one country to the next as the definition is often not the same" is so hard to comprehend? The most obvious and easily compared one is murder. The US murder rate is triple that of Canada's. Congratulations! Otherwise it's generally accepted that the US has much higher violent crime than Canada, while Canada has somewhat higher property crime:

http://web4.uwindsor.ca/users/m/mfc/41-240.nsf/0/10ff8b04ff3a317885256d88005720f6/$FILE/ATT8BNDV/0110185-002-XIE.pdf

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85f0035...001000-eng.pdf

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...11218b-eng.htm

So in return for your car being slightly less likely to be stolen, you're three times as likely to be murdered and far more likely to be robbed or assaulted. A fair trade, I'd say!

Not that I doubt Canada has less crime, can you find stats from the last decade Eomer?

Nah, not really. As someone of a scientific background, I'm sure you can appreciate a more well thought out statistical analysis that paints the big picture, rather than baseless massaged statistics. That chart makes no fucking sense. The top murder rate countries don't even make their top ten..

Here's some real stats with real evidence for you to chew on:

http://www.publications.gc.ca/collec...85-002-XIE.pdf

EDIT: Looks like eomer beat me to it

aychamo_aycono_sl said:

Thank you. And look who is sitting up there at #6. I'm trying to find data for the U.S., I seem to find around 475 per 100,000. Jeez, about half of Canada even. So, thank you Canadians who post in this thread telling us about all our troubles. Tell me, how did your own country end up with such a ridiculously high violent crime rate?

(shaking magic 8 ball)I'm going to predict the anti-gun nuts will 1. try to find a way to molest the data so that the US is actually worse in violent crime, by whatever means, or 2. ignore the violent crime and talk about school shootings, or 3. ignore violent crimes and only talk about homicide by guns. Honestly, if we eliminated gangs, we'd be one of the safer places in the world. Despite our "gun crazed culture."

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I hear the territories and the West of Canada are full of murderers.

aychamo_aycono_sl said:

Don't be so butthurt that your country's violent crime rate is twice as high as ours.

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Yeah, except it's not.

Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

1+2)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...nership/table/
3) I raise you a question mark ????
4) Any gun beyond the effective minimum needed to protect yourself from a home intruder. No guns are allowed outside your home.

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You've misunderstood me. I'm not asking you to substantiate 1 and 2. I'm asking you to link them to 4 (since 4 doesn't actually follow directly).

So again,

1. The US has 10,000+ gun homicides a year.
2. Other modern civilized nations have in the range of 50-100 gun homicides in a year.
3. ???
4. Some subset of "Guns" should be banned from private ownership.


Please fill in 3 as needed.

Japan limits almost all gun ownership.

Japan has as little as two gun related deaths a year.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...deaths/260189/

I feel like this article has been linked about a dozen times in this thread already

OkieDokie
1. The US has 10,000+ gun homicides a year.
2. Other modern civilized nations have in the range of 50-100 gun homicides in a year.
3. Since these other nations have far less guns in circulation, and these homicides are a product of two variables--a) gun quantity and b) humans, then one of two things must hold true: Increased gun proliferation leads to greater gun homicide rate, and/or Americans for whatever reason like shooting people more than people in other countries. Even should you somehow favor the latter as an explanation, nevertheless variable a) gun quantity has a clear mathematical effect on the quantity of gun homicides.
4. Therefore, Some subset of "Guns" should be banned from private ownership, thereby at least in the LONG TERM there will be a diminishing gun homicide rate

Mikhail Bakunin_sl said:

You've misunderstood me. I'm not asking you to substantiate 1 and 2. I'm asking you to link them to 4 (since 4 doesn't actually follow directly).

So again,

1. The US has 10,000+ gun homicides a year.
2. Other modern civilized nations have in the range of 50-100 gun homicides in a year.
3. ???
4. Some subset of "Guns" should be banned from private ownership.


Please fill in 3 as needed.

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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:

Therefore, Some subset of "Guns" should be banned from private ownership, thereby at least in the LONG TERM there will be a diminishing gun homicide rate

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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

Too bad the banning of guns goes directly against the 2nd Amendment. Now to your next idea?

I'm not saying to ban all guns. As I've stated, you've got so many guns, rifles, machine guns, and other assorted hand cannons in circulation that outright banning citizens from obtaining guns at this point effectively does only benefit the "bad guys". Gun bans in other countries work because they never had a mass proliferation in the first place. Any plan in the US has to be a progressive slow tightening of the noose over years..

Begin with a ban on assault weapons. Can't buy them, can't transport them, illegal to fire them. Couple that with an aggressive federal buyback program where the government will give you cold hard cash for your assault rifle. Ban any ammo that is exclusively used by these weapons. Over the years only the gun collector, survivalist, organized crime, and affluent gun owner will still be holding onto them. Not random psycho and not some law abiding mom that "liked guns".

Proceed to institute strict regulations and checks for the purchase of any handgun. Medical record checks, neighbor interviews-- this is the shit other countries do when you want a handgun. Again institute a federal handgun buyback program.

It will take decades, but it will make a material difference, and in a way that does not encroach on a law abiding citizen's ability to own a handgun.

Tuco_sl said:

Please explain more about this long term plan. In how many generations are you planning with this ban on all new sales of guns?

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Another school shooting today, at Taft Union High School in Taft, California, but luckily no deaths. Shooter brought a shot gun and got off two to four shots before being "talked down". One student is in critical but stable condition and a teacher was grazed with a pellet. The school employs an armed guard, but the guard was not at school today because he or she was "snowed in".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2450710.html