Gun control

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922
3
It's semantic bullshit. If we FORCE the teacher to carry, then we are FORCING them to take on more responsibility. If we allow them to VOLUNTARILY carry, then they're NOT taking on more responsibilities because they're doing it of their own volition ! Except for the fact that a teacher that volunteers to carry a gun around little kids has a much greater responsibility than a teacher that does not. Ooops !

In Derg's imaginary world, you allow someone to carry a gun and the tacit enforcement authority that follows and expect the teacher not to use it. So if the teacher carrying the gun is in his room with his students and he hears the kids next door being slaughtered by a gunman, he won't leave his room to confront said gunman and would only use his gun if that gunman barges into his room. Smells like some awful bullshit.
Why are you so hung up on the added responsibility it would add to volunteers. Does it make you feel inferior that somebody might be able to handle more responsibility than you?

How would you know what a teacher would do? It's just as bullshit for you to think every teacher would try to turn into a commando and strafe / dodge across campus to get into a firefight.

There is a reason they teach classes, they can teach some pretty common sense stuff like, IDK

Lock the door, hide behind desk. Don't shoot unless you are sure?

Unless there is some full scale cut the phone lines I'm sure an all clear can be called into a classroom. Even if they did cut the phones, who doesn't have a cellphone these days.
 
922
3
/eyeroll. Like how the "proper training" in getting a CHL still didn't prevent either of those incidents I mentioned, right ?
So people accidentally discharging their weapons is your major concern?

One of those links was a person cleaning their weapon. So hmm.. way to mitigate that risk, no gun cleaning in schools?

The other link was a person having a gun in their pocket. Way to mitigate that risk, don't keep a gun in your pocket?


Do you have any other concerns that we could try to discuss?
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
/eyeroll. Like how the "proper training" in getting a CHL still didn't prevent either of those incidents I mentioned, right ?
You obviously missed the entire point. Newsflash, accidents happen. Even with things we consider normal and mundane. If your argument is that there may be an accident sometime somewhere and that's you're only reasoning for not allowing conceal carry, it's not very convincing.
 
558
0
Why are you so hung up on the added responsibility it would add to volunteers. Does it make you feel inferior that somebody might be able to handle more responsibility than you?

How would you know what a teacher would do? It's just as bullshit for you to think every teacher would try to turn into a commando and strafe / dodge across campus to get into a firefight.

There is a reason they teach classes, they can teach some pretty common sense stuff like, IDK

Lock the door, hide behind desk. Don't shoot unless you are sure?

Unless there is some full scale cut the phone lines I'm sure an all clear can be called into a classroom. Even if they did cut the phones, who doesn't have a cellphone these days.
I've answered this a million times. A gun is a huge responsibility.I do not want someone to have a gun around kids when that gun is not their sole and only focus. It is not about whether or not someone "feels" confident enough to carry a gun in schools -- I don't think they can, not when you're not a law enforcement official or a guard who's only purpose is to carry that gun and keep the peace.

Yes, people who have a CHL often have to take classes. But that doesn't mean anything. Look at the articles i linked up top. Both of those accidental shootings took place by people who have had classes and training to carry their gun. But if I find 1 instance in which "classes" didn't instill someone with enough common sense to not disassemble and reassemble their weapon in front of her co-worker just for show, do you REALLY think a class would prepare a teacher for a riffle toting shooter in a school ? You're deluding yourself.

The problem (school shootings) are small. The solution that YOU people propose (teachers with guns near kids) is lunacy. I mean, it's quite ironic, actually. The gun control nuts with their kneejerk reaction to ban all "ASSAULT RIFFLES" ! and the pro-gun nuts with their kneejerk reaction to ARM TEACHERS ! You're both opposite sides of the same coin. You're just as bad as they are, you just don't realize it.
 

Fyro

Golden Squire
127
0
I like guns
Either add something of substance or gtfo. It seems you are trying to hit the magic 5 to enter screen shots. Good riddance.

What's awful is not being afforded options. The alternative to your fantasy scenario is the classroom gets slaughtered and then probably the next until the police arrives with their guns and then the maniac blows his own brains out. Now that smells like awful bullshit.
Or we could lock the door to the classroom so the shooter goes on looking for easier prey?
 
558
0
You obviously missed the entire point. Newsflash, accidents happen. Even with things we consider normal and mundane. If your argument is that there may be an accident sometime somewhere and that's you're only reasoning for not allowing conceal carry, it's not very convincing.
No, I understand the point. It's just your point is bullshit. For you to analogize a death from a football to a death from an accidental discharge shows how idiotic of a stretch you are making to save your shitty position. If accidents happen, why do ANYTHING ? Why even require people to have a CHL before they carry their guns on campus ? Why require training ? Why restrict automatic weapons ? WHY DO ANYTHING I MEAN ACCIDENTS HAPPEN RIGHT ?!
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
I've answered this a million times. A gun is a huge responsibility.I do not want someone to have a gun around kids when that gun is not their sole and only focus. It is not about whether or not someone "feels" confident enough to carry a gun in schools -- I don't think they can, not when you're not a law enforcement official or a guard who's only purpose is to carry that gun and keep the peace.

Yes, people who have a CHL often have to take classes. But that doesn't mean anything. Look at the articles i linked up top. Both of those accidental shootings took place by people who have had classes and training to carry their gun. But if I find 1 instance in which "classes" didn't instill someone with enough common sense to disassemble and reassemble their weapon in front of her co-worker just for show, do you REALLY think a class would prepare a teacher for a riffle toting shooter in a school ? You're deluding yourself.

The problem (school shootings) are small. The solution that YOU people propose (teachers with guns near kids) is lunacy. I mean, it's quite ironic, actually. The gun control nuts with their kneejerk reaction to ban all "ASSAULT RIFFLES" ! and the pro-gun nuts with their kneejerk reaction to ARM TEACHERS ! You're both opposite sides of the same coin. You're just as bad as they are, you just don't realize it.
So send your kids to a gun free zone then. I'll take the risk of an accidental discharge over a school shooter. Schools should have the choice to decide as should it's citizens. You just want to say no because soysauceonrice knows best.
 
558
0
So send your kids to a gun free zone then. I'll take the risk of an accidental discharge over a school shooter. Schools should have the choice to decide as should it's citizens. You just want to say no because soysauceonrice knows best.
Kay. So we agree to disagree, which is fine. I don't need teachers with guns in my schools to make me feel safe against an illusory threat. A cop does the job just fine.

I'll just add this. A crazed gunman shooting up a school, that's almost a freak of nature, an act of god that few people could predict. An accidental discharge of a gun in a school by someone who is allowed to carry in a gun is a tragedy that we as society have invited upon ourselves. If what you want actually happens on a large scale, it will only be a matter of time before this happens. When it does, there will be hell to pay.
 
922
3
So your biggest concern is accidental discharge.

There are plenty of ways to manage that risk. How about don't have a loaded concealed weapon. Magazines can be concealed beside a gun.

This is simply an idea that would allow a teacher to defend themselves and their classroom. I'm all for the do nothing approach also.

Although there are a shit load of "lets do something like ban semi automatic weapons" retards out there so we are left with trying to come up with ideas that might actually do something if a school shooter situation comes up again.

Allowing teachers who are qualified and responsible enough to carry a personal protective firearm would certainly be a better idea than adding a massive and costly police force to all schools. Each community would have to come up with what constitutes "responsible and qualified" but I'd be ok with a somewhat baseline federal law I suppose.


I'm fine with school districts deciding they don't want teachers to be allowed to carry guns in schools. I think that should be up to the communities people live in. I don't think federal law should outright ban guns in schools.

Comprehensive gun bans don't do shit is what I'm pointing out and if communities want to allow teachers to defend themselves I have no problem with it.

An accidental discharge of a gun in a school by someone who is allowed to carry in a gun is a tragedy that we as society have invited upon ourselves. If what you want actually happens on a large scale, it will only be a matter of time before this happens. When it does, there will be hell to pay.
The same could be said about many things people are allowed to do legally. The idea that you can be 100% safe is where you are arguing from and I find that position untenable. The point here is to manage risk.

Would allowing armed teachers in schools be less risky than having no armed teachers in schools? So far the armed teacher statistics show less risk than unarmed teachers.
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
Either add something of substance or gtfo. It seems you are trying to hit the magic 5 to enter screen shots. Good riddance.



Or we could lock the door to the classroom so the shooter goes on looking for easier prey?
Lock the doors during recess, lunchtime, gym class? They're not going to announce, " Hey, I have a gun. Lock your doors if you have one before I get there!"
 
558
0
So your biggest concern is accidental discharge.

There are plenty of ways to manage that risk. How about don't have a loaded concealed weapon. Magazines can be concealed beside a gun.

This is simply an idea that would allow a teacher to defend themselves and their classroom. I'm all for the do nothing approach also.

Although there are a shit load of "lets do something like ban semi automatic weapons" retards out there so we are left with trying to come up with ideas that might actually do something if a school shooter situation comes up again.

Allowing teachers who are qualified and responsible enough to carry a personal protective firearm would certainly be a better idea than adding a massive and costly police force to all schools. Each community would have to come up with what constitutes "responsible and qualified" but I'd be ok with a somewhat baseline federal law I suppose.


I'm fine with school districts deciding they don't want teachers to be allowed to carry guns in schools. I think that should be up to the communities people live in. I don't think federal law should outright ban guns in schools.

Comprehensive gun bans don't do shit is what I'm pointing out and if communities want to allow teachers to defend themselves I have no problem with it.



The same could be said about many things people are allowed to do legally. The idea that you can be 100% safe is where you are arguing from and I find that position untenable. The point here is to manage risk.

Would allowing armed teachers in schools be less risky than having no armed teachers in schools? So far the armed teacher statistics show less risk than unarmed teachers.
The accidental discharge is just one of my concerns. Take Switzerland, for example.

Switzerland is often held up by gun rights activists as a shinning model of a country with a strong gun culture but low violent gun crimes. While this is true, the Swiss also lead all of Europe in gun suicides. The reason is clear -- when you are in a mentally unstable state, enough to consider suicide, you reach for the most convenient method to kill yourself -- the gun. People who commit suicide often go for a quick or painless method to do so. But if you swallow a bottle of tylenol, there is plenty of time to change your mind and have your stomach pumped. A bullet to the head doesn't offer much time for introspection.

Where am I going with this ? The point I'm making is that introducing guns into the hands of civilians in a sensitive place with children is a dangerous and unpredictable proposition, especially when the problem we are trying to combat -- the THREAT of a school shooting -- remains extremely low. A teacher with a gun could accidentally discharge the gun, or he could blow his head off when he finds out that his wife is cheating on him, or he could snap and shoot a student that's giving him lip. The likelihood of any of this happening is extremely low, but it isn't any less likely than a heavily armed shooter storming your school. And while accidents and mistake happen, most accidents and mistakes can be rectified. It's much harder to take back a bullet.
 
558
0
This entire discussion has been about allowing individuals the right to choose. I never once said it should be mandated.
Where exactly did you read the word "mandated" in anything that I've said ? It would be beneficial for you to read what i actually said, as opposed to what you think i said.
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
I'll just add this. A crazed gunman shooting up a school, that's almost a freak of nature, an act of god that few people could predict. An accidental discharge of a gun in a school by someone who is allowed to carry in a gun is a tragedy that we as society have invited upon ourselves. If what you want actually happens on a large scale, it will only be a matter of time before this happens. When it does, there will be hell to pay.
Cops aren't infallible. They shoot the wrong people all the time. There's probably more physical evidence of this than the random ccw holder discharging a round into his leg. Yet you're OK with that risk when it happens.
 

Big Derg_sl

shitlord
126
0
Where exactly did you read the word "mandated" in anything that I've said ? It would be beneficial for you to read what i actually said, as opposed to what you think i said.
Well it took you an awful goddamn long time to get the point then. Perhaps it would have been beneficial if you read what I was saying and actually took time to grasp the concept before replying and me having to repeat myself.
 
558
0
Well it took you an awful goddamn long time to get the point then. Perhaps it would have been beneficial if you read what I was saying and actually took time to grasp the concept before replying and me having to repeat myself.
I don't get it. You put words in my mouth and then tell ME to work on my reading comprehension. I've repeated my point time and time again. If it took you imagining words I did NOT use to finally understand the words that I DID use, perhaps I should stop engaging you, since it seems like a lost cause.
 
922
3
The accidental discharge is just one of my concerns. Take Switzerland, for example.

Switzerland is often held up by gun rights activists as a shinning model of a country with a strong gun culture but low violent gun crimes. While this is true, the Swiss also lead all of Europe in gun suicides. The reason is clear -- when you are in a mentally unstable state, enough to consider suicide, you reach for the most convenient method to kill yourself -- the gun. People who commit suicide often go for a quick or painless method to do so. But if you swallow a bottle of tylenol, there is plenty of time to change your mind and have your stomach pumped. A bullet to the head doesn't offer much time for introspection.

Where am I going with this ? The point I'm making is that introducing guns into the hands of civilians in a sensitive place with children is a dangerous and unpredictable proposition, especially when the problem we are trying to combat -- the THREAT of a school shooting -- remains extremely low. A teacher with a gun could accidentally discharge the gun, or he could blow his head off when he finds out that his wife is cheating on him, or he could snap and shoot a student that's giving him lip. The likelihood of any of this happening is extremely low, but it isn't any less likely than a heavily armed shooter storming your school. And while accidents and mistake happen, most accidents and mistakes can be rectified. It's much harder to take back a bullet.
I'm not sure why you bring suicide into this. Sure, there needs to be better mental health care in general and especially for any teacher who decides to CC in a school imo.

Most people who commit suicide don't turn it into a public spectacle and this situation you bring up with a teacher committing suicide in front of a class room is even more unlikely than a school shooting. It still wouldn't stop a person intent on committing suicide though and this really is a red herring lol.
 
558
0
I'm not sure why you bring suicide into this. Sure, there needs to be better mental health care in general and especially for any teacher who decides to CC in a school imo.

Most people who commit suicide don't turn it into a public spectacle and this situation you bring up with a teacher committing suicide in front of a class room is even more unlikely than a school shooting. It still wouldn't stop a person intent on committing suicide though and this really is a red herring lol.
I'm tired of spoonfeeding you my conclusions. Why don't you re-read the last paragraph and think REALLY REALLY HARD !
 
922
3
So basically you are trying to tie a correlation about gun suicides to a potentially mentally ill teacher going on a killing spree?

I've thought really really hard about it, and I think better mental health care would manage that risk. People committing suicide in classrooms has nothing to do with gun violence.

If you are going to continue grasping at straws and bringing up anything your erratic mind can latch onto to try and prove guns are evil I don't see the point of discussing guns with you.

You obviously can't challenge the way you think and see that gun's don't cause the violence.