Gun control

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

chaos_sl said:
Right but the entire point of this is that teachers would act as tacit law enforcement. The concept goes beyond simple target practice and into the realities of what would have to happen to deal with the situation. That means using their weapons in an actual mass shooting situation, but using it intelligently, actively working to pick out the correct suspect and protect the innocent children, which at the end of the day is their charge, protect the kids. The idea is mind-bottling to me. I'm sure you have plenty of ex-Marine teachers who are up to the task but the discussion seems to go along the lines that if you spend enough time at the range you're just as prepared to deal with all of this as a cop, and I just find that ludicrous.

Teachers are already trained what to do in times of emergency. It's not an added burden for them, it's just part of the job. They know they're responsible for the safety and welfare of their students already. No one says, "Well doing fire drills means teachers now have to wear the hat of a fireman". And no one expects them to run out to battle a blazing inferno with a hose and axe. I think people need to be realistic with their expectations. In the case of a shooter, schools typically go into lock down. I don't think anyone expects a teacher to leave their students to go room clearing for bad guys.

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
You need to stop beating this straw man. I never said i would reject evidence. But you people keep yelling THIRTEEN STATES !!! without actually explaining what this means. What thirteen states ? What restrictions in these thirteen states that DO allow concealed carry, if any ? Don't fucking bitch at me telling me to do the research when YOU are the one that is making the claim in the first place.

If you're really interested, do your own research on the matter and then come back and own everyone with your extensive knowledge. I already linked you an article that you can cross check for accuracy.

TheBeagle · Jan 13, 2013

Don't teachers in America already have enough shit on their plate to deal with besides learning how to be a fucking armed security guard?

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

TheBeagle_sl said:
Don't teachers in America already have enough shit on their plate to deal with besides learning how to be a fucking armed security guard?

Straw man. No one is asking teachers to do this.

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

http://www.campuscarry.com/supporting-facts-arguments/

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Watch this. This should destroy the misconceptions most of you have about conceal carry.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KwS-sDyudZo

Fyro · Jan 13, 2013

Flunklesnarkin_sl said:
Like that Georgia mom who shot an intruder breaking into her house so she could protect her children when they were discovered hiding in a closet. Nope, that has to be ignored so they can talk about some nutjob doomsday prepper on CNN.

Not to burst your bubble- but the fuck you talking about?

The Georgia mom incident was EVERYWHERE- including CNN for days. "The new face of gun-advocates..."

Your delusions are getting the best of you when you think the media is out to get you.

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
Because this isn't just about the school shooting in isolation. You're advocating a very specific policy change -- allowing teachers to carry guns in school. I disagree because I think this is an overreaction that attempts to solve a small problem by introducing a cure that could potentially be more harmful than the disease.

I've been trying to say this same thing for a while now. Mass shootings are anomalies- and it's simply knee-jerk reaction to put more guns in school.

A teachers 1st and only job in the event of an emergency is to PROTECT the children. That means either locking the door and getting them in a corner, or getting them out of the building. You will never find a teacher that will leave their kids to go confront a shooter.

Also someone earlier said that only good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns, ignoring the overly simplistic view of 'good' and 'bad' check out the shooting a few days ago where the teacher talked the kid down.

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Fyro_sl said:
Not to burst your bubble- but the fuck you talking about?

The Georgia mom incident was EVERYWHERE- including CNN for days. "The new face of gun-advocates..."

Your delusions are getting the best of you when you think the media is out to get you.

I've been trying to say this same thing for a while now. Mass shootings are anomalies- and it's simply knee-jerk reaction to put more guns in school.

A teachers 1st and only job in the event of an emergency is to PROTECT the children. That means either locking the door and getting them in a corner, or getting them out of the building. You will never find a teacher that will leave their kids to go confront a shooter.

Also someone earlier said that only good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns, ignoring the overly simplistic view of 'good' and 'bad' check out the shooting a few days ago where the teacher talked the kid down.

For the millionth time, no one is advocating teachers go room clearing with their guns. Secondly, I don't think we should make it policy for teachers to try and talk shooters down. Those teachers are heroes no doubt about it, but they're lucky they're not dead heroes.

Fadaar · Jan 13, 2013

aychamo_aycono_sl said:
I don't know. I really think all this talk about teachers, etc, is just pointless. Why don't we focus on where the vast majority of gun related deaths are each year, and on who is committing them.

Gangs in the ghettos of large urban areas? Nah, that takes effort. Better just ban all the guns so the criminals can't kill anyone since they won't be able to get guns then.

Firemonkey · Jan 13, 2013

I like guns

Soysauceonrice_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Big Derg_sl said:
If you're really interested, do your own research on the matter and then come back and own everyone with your extensive knowledge. I already linked you an article that you can cross check for accuracy.

Your article was irrelevant to the claim made. Even your most recent link on campus carry dealt more with allowing college students to concealed carry, not teachers in k-12. I love how people make bullshit claim, and when I ask for a source, I'm told to do my own research to back up said bullshit claims. My own research shows 1 state that allows carte blanche to carry, and 6 states that have limitations. That's almost half what was claimed.

Magimaster · Jan 13, 2013

Big Derg_sl said:
For the millionth time, no one is advocating teachers go room clearing with their guns. Secondly, I don't think we should make it policy for teachers to try and talk shooters down. Those teachers are heroes no doubt about it, but they're lucky they're not dead heroes.

So..... then why have the teachers have guns? Is the teacher just to sit there pointing the gun at the door waiting to shoot the first person that enters?

Also, I LOVE how your all being so very specific about 'No, we arn't saying teachers should be FORCED to have guns, just that they should be allowed to carry!" You know what that argument sounds like? It sounds like when the cops come to house and arrest you for your children underage drinking and you tell them "No officer, see I didn't force them to drink, I just left the liqueur cabinet unlocked. You can't hold me responsible for their actions!" You don't get to play that word game; you say teachers should be allowed to carry, you are implicitly approving them using said weapons, PERIOD.

Soysauceonrice_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Magimaster_sl said:
So..... then why have the teachers have guns? Is the teacher just to sit there pointing the gun at the door waiting to shoot the first person that enters?

Also, I LOVE how your all being so very specific about 'No, we arn't saying teachers should be FORCED to have guns, just that they should be allowed to carry!" You know what that argument sounds like? It sounds like when the cops come to house and arrest you for your children underage drinking and you tell them "No officer, see I didn't force them to drink, I just left the liqueur cabinet unlocked. You can hold me responsible for their actions!" You don't get to play that word game; you say teachers should be allowed to carry, you are implicitly approving them using said weapons, PERIOD.

It's semantic bullshit. If we FORCE the teacher to carry, then we are FORCING them to take on more responsibility. If we allow them to VOLUNTARILY carry, then they're NOT taking on more responsibilities because they're doing it of their own volition ! Except for the fact that a teacher that volunteers to carry a gun around little kids has a much greater responsibility than a teacher that does not. Ooops !

In Derg's imaginary world, you allow someone to carry a gun and the tacit enforcement authority that follows and expect the teacher not to use it. So if the teacher carrying the gun is in his room with his students and he hears the kids next door being slaughtered by a gunman, he won't leave his room to confront said gunman and would only use his gun if that gunman barges into his room. Smells like some awful bullshit.

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
Your article was irrelevant to the claim made. Even your most recent link on campus carry dealt more with allowing college students to concealed carry, not teachers in k-12. I love how people make bullshit claim, and when I ask for a source, I'm told to do my own research to back up said bullshit claims. My own research shows 1 state that allows carte blanche to carry, and 6 states that have limitations. That's almost half what was claimed.

I didn't make the claim. I was posting links to help you verify the claim. So either you can go do your own research or you can continue to say the same exact thing you've said in your last three posts by rearranging words. Personally, I don't care if the claim is true or not. You're not the yard stick by which I measure success so I don't see much point in finding material for your personal research project.

Soysauceonrice_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Big Derg_sl said:
I didn't make the claim. I was posting links to help you verify the claim. So either you can go do your own research or you can continue to say the same exact thing you've said in your last three posts by rearranging words. Personally, I don't care if the claim is true or not. You're not the yard stick by which I measure success so I don't see much point in finding material for your personal research project.

Really, a gun owner living in Texas isn't the yardstick by which you measure success ? So who exactly are you trying to convince ? These guys ?

http://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn...rhood-fortress

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
It's semantic bullshit. If we FORCE the teacher to carry, then we are FORCING them to take on more responsibility. If we allow them to VOLUNTARILY carry, then they're NOT taking on more responsibilities because they're doing it of their own volition ! Except for the fact that a teacher that volunteers to carry a gun around little kids has a much greater responsibility than a teacher that does not. Ooops !

In Derg's imaginary world, you allow someone to carry a gun and the tacit enforcement authority that follows and expect the teacher not to use it. So if the teacher carrying the gun is in his room with his students and he hears the kids next door being slaughtered by a gunman, he won't leave his room to confront said gunman and would only use his gun if that gunman barges into his room. Smells like some awful bullshit.

What's awful is not being afforded options. The alternative to your fantasy scenario is the classroom gets slaughtered and then probably the next until the police arrives with their guns and then the maniac blows his own brains out. Now that smells like awful bullshit.

Soysauceonrice_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Big Derg_sl said:
What's awful is not being afforded options. The alternative to your fantasy scenario is the classroom gets slaughtered and then probably the next until the police arrives with their guns and then the maniac blows his own brains out. Now that smells like awful bullshit.

Not when that option brings baggage with it. Your "option" to carry a gun around kids to prevent something as anomalous as a school shooting could very well end up getting a kid killed. Imagine this happening in a small room of 2 dozen 6 year-olds.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/08...-shooting.html

Or this:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword...cal_campus.php

As we noted in our coverage, on view below, the incident is especially noteworthy, because it appears to be the first accidental discharge of a gun on a Colorado campus by someone with the proper permit since the Colorado State Supreme Court ordered CU to allow such individuals to bring guns on campus.

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
Not when that option brings baggage with it. Your "option" to carry a gun around kids to prevent something as anomalous as a school shooting could very well end up getting a kid killed. Imagine this happening in a small room of 2 dozen 6 year-olds.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/08...-shooting.html

Or this:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword...cal_campus.php

We better remove playgrounds and football from school then since they carry baggage with them.

http://sammamishreview.com/2012/08/2...-at-playground

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/102330324.html

Soysauceonrice_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Big Derg_sl said:
We better remove playgrounds and football from school then since they carry baggage with them.

http://sammamishreview.com/2012/08/2...-at-playground

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/102330324.html

I'll let you throw a football at my head if you let me shoot you in the head with my handgun. Deal ?

Big Derg_sl · Jan 13, 2013

Soysauceonrice_sl said:
I'll let you throw a football at my head if you let me shoot you in the head with my handgun. Deal ?

Sure, you're probably a terrible shot anyways since you don't have the proper training or you'll kill yourself by accidental discharge before we meet.

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