Adebisi
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Health Care Thread
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Competition to force the military system to improve is provided by external threats.You stay up to date with latest trends in the military sector are you risk being defeated by those that are up to date. A single payer medical system has no competition and no real reason to change.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Really? As long as there are career politicians there's the external threat of the constituency voting them the hell out for starters. You know, the entire reason why England did so well on knees amongst other things.
Politics isn't an ivory tower they're born into where they can ignore their constituency. Now if they're already content, sure - but then again - the constituency is content.
Politics isn't an ivory tower they're born into where they can ignore their constituency. Now if they're already content, sure - but then again - the constituency is content.
Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Lets pretend for a moment that your statement isn't pants on head retarded, single payer even without incentive to get better is 1000x better than the shit we have today.
Sebudai
Ssraeszha Raider
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Competition to force the healthcare system to improve is provided by external threats. States which needlessly squander their resources on inefficient healthcare systems that provide worse healthcare outcomes for their citizens are disadvantaged compared to those states who do not.
There's also the little matter of there being nearly infinite and universal domestic demand to improve since people tend to like living longer, healthier lives, you fucking idiot. "No real reason to change"? Are you for fucking real?
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Another reason single payers try to remain competitive and innovate as well is to lure in rich internationals that are willing to pay through the nose for the best care for X condition in the world. Cost becomes immaterial to them pretty much, so you can use those willing to pay $200k for a $10k cost procedure and use that to as a means to keep costs down for citizens. (Or whatever other hypothetical large profit margin - note, this already happens at places like John's Hopkins today - premium care at a much slimmer price than you'd expect because of "healthcare tourism" that is almost always handled in cash)
Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Really 1000x better really?
Here is a question if US had a single payer system for past 100 years would US healthcare system be better then it is now are would it along with the rest of worlds systems be worse?
Siddar
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Single payer doesn't really exist if you allow wealthy to go to another country and acquire healthcare service that they can't get at home. In fact you drive down the quality of care faster by allowing people to travel to other countries to acquire services that there home countries wont provide. Health tourism allows single payer systems to provide substandard healthcare while avoiding the political backlash by allowing the elites who have money to go somewhere else to acquire services they can't get at home.
In a free market system health tourism is just market forces providing a mix of quality and price choices for any given medical service.
Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Yes it would be better, single payer has proven to be better THAN giving middle men money for no apparent fucking reason.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Sit back, learn to read and learn rather than quoting diatribes that you have clearly been listening to from your media preferences that aren't actually correct.
I'm not talking about our wealthy doing health tourism - I'm talking about getting others from other nations to come here and spend their money to make our system cheaper for the users. Case in point with what happens with John's Hopkins right now - they get nearly $3b a year from international clients that come to John's Hopkins neurology - all that money goes into a cool little trust that they use to give expensive treatment to US citizens (and rarely poor internationals that are willing to pay for the flight) for free when they find either the education gained from the client or the need to to make sense for using up that "free money". (And note that $3b is for that one department, I know Wilmer - their eye section - does as well although not the value)
You saw one word and literally talked about the opposite side of the spectrum from us. How to fuck would that variant of HC tourism even fit the context I was using? Honestly - use that grey matter between your ears that keeps telling you to be retarded for more than just primal reaction and Drudge quoting.
Vaclav
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We had the best HC in the world on most topics and the most innovation when our system was the psuedo-single payer it was previous to the AMA fucking around with things depending on the era because of doctor's treating people freely with no repercussions to test new procedures in early eras and because the Fed funneled them so much research money later (largely from battlefield related money and testing but not always)
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Then you are on some hardcore meds. I don't think you understand what I wanted a citation for. It was the bit about how the US government 'usually' tries to save money.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Really? The government doesn't have parts that are always trying to trim budgets, etc?
Guess Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Paul Prudhome and every other Paul out there didn't try to trim budgets at all, right? I'm the one on "hardcore meds".... /rolleyes (And note: Unmedicated since about August of last year since I found my meds were making me too sluggish and tried being off them for a while - found I do better without them - pain sucks but it's tolerable without the meds making me sluggish, that realization that the meds were screwing me is what started my return to looking for work again)
Success rate is hit or miss - but there's almost always at least a few bills going through Congress a year that have some attempt at a budget trim, as well as a few suggestions that never see the floor. I don't think you seem to understand what the word "TRIES" means.
Hell, even the agencies within their own semi-independent structures try to save money - i.e. USPS, FDA, USDA, SSA - but that's not even the topic I was meaning to reference just a sidenote that also coincides.
Guess Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, Paul Prudhome and every other Paul out there didn't try to trim budgets at all, right? I'm the one on "hardcore meds".... /rolleyes (And note: Unmedicated since about August of last year since I found my meds were making me too sluggish and tried being off them for a while - found I do better without them - pain sucks but it's tolerable without the meds making me sluggish, that realization that the meds were screwing me is what started my return to looking for work again)
Success rate is hit or miss - but there's almost always at least a few bills going through Congress a year that have some attempt at a budget trim, as well as a few suggestions that never see the floor. I don't think you seem to understand what the word "TRIES" means.
Hell, even the agencies within their own semi-independent structures try to save money - i.e. USPS, FDA, USDA, SSA - but that's not even the topic I was meaning to reference just a sidenote that also coincides.
Hoss
Make America's Team Great Again
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Oh I see. So you're just an idiot. Pro tip for ya. Slowing down the rate of increase is not really a cut. The culture among the department heads in the government is to waste money because if they don't use their entire budget, they are afraid they'll be cut next year.
This guy doesn't actually run any governmental department. Apparently, you think he runs them all.
This guy doesn't actually run any governmental department. Apparently, you think he runs them all.
Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Yes, I'm the idiot - I use the word "Try" and you try to say that a lack of success means they're not trying - WHAT LANGUAGE IS YOUR PRIMARY LANGUAGE? BECAUSE IT'S NOT FUCKING ENGLISH.
And on department heads - I said exactly that, but you apparently don't understand English - that they'll find savings then they'll use those savings to start a new program or bolster another rather than creating a net savings.
And on department heads - I said exactly that, but you apparently don't understand English - that they'll find savings then they'll use those savings to start a new program or bolster another rather than creating a net savings.
Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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T
So what you are saying is that capitalism will save our single player system (if we get one). /boggle.... The idiot pretzel logic of desperate Obama supporters continues...
Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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"Save it", absolutely not - I said there's a reason to continue innovating to help curb costs. It's why SP nations continue to innovate right now.
And it has nothing to do with "capitalism" as a societal thing really - it has everything to do with giving preferential treatment to your citizens, which is quite anti-capitalist frankly. But the idiot pretzel logic of desperate Obama supporters continues...