Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
I think warrior will remain one of the strongest classes too, in the beginning especially. But I get that, still I see aggro shaman and hunter coming on strong as fast decks, and they aren't as reliant on stickiness. Really won't midrange suffer more from the sticky shit leaving? I guess if you're playing control that's kinda what you want though. Can't wait to see what epic fails and handful of broken nonsense the expansion brings.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
- 8,456
- 3,577
Yea, I see what you're trying to do, I wasn't really critiquing your deck but here's my thoughts now:
Even though you have Varian, you shouldnt eliminate all Battlecries. I had a deck without battlecries to try out Varian and it just isn't as good. Varian is still great value even if you lose a battlecry as long as you won't fatique out if opponent can board clear.
My changes:
+2x Taskmasters
+2x Acolytes.
+Harrison
-2x Slam
-Inner Rage
-1x Gorehowl
-1x Obsidian
I'd try to fit in a Revenge and/or Baron Geddon depending on meta.
Geddon in place of Rag if needed
Revenge in place of something
Maybe even 1x Whirlwind too for the Armorsmith benefits.
Losing Death's Bite means no more whirlwinds which was a staple for warrior pre-Naxx.
Taskmasters are too powerful early game to give up imo.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,727
- 52,269
If I was running 2 taskmasters I'd want two acolytes on top of both armorsmiths...which now that I read more closely was part of your suggested change. I dunno I feel like if you're going to run Varian you might as well be as greedy as possible. The deck needs a second brawl, and maybe geddon as well, but I'm not planning to spend much time with the list until standard actually rolls out, I already deleted it to make room for something else. Saved the SS though. My anticipated flex slots atm are Nexus Champ, Cairne, 1x Gorehowl, 1x Obsidian, and Rag.
I'm also thinking about the possibility of a more midranged taunt heavy deck, probably not with bolster though. But I do like the idea of sparring partner into black knight! Definitely expecting BK to come back to the meta with Belcher gone.
*edit*
fuckin lol @ thijs running onyxia in control warrior. He has to be my favorite deckbuilder. I kinda want to craft Deathwing, but gotta save my dust. Lotta random classic shit I've always wanted but never had the spare dust for.
I'm also thinking about the possibility of a more midranged taunt heavy deck, probably not with bolster though. But I do like the idea of sparring partner into black knight! Definitely expecting BK to come back to the meta with Belcher gone.
*edit*
fuckin lol @ thijs running onyxia in control warrior. He has to be my favorite deckbuilder. I kinda want to craft Deathwing, but gotta save my dust. Lotta random classic shit I've always wanted but never had the spare dust for.
That game was so back and forth. Only way it could have been better is if the stakes had been bigger.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,727
- 52,269
Ok so I get bored with freeze mage, switch to anyfin, lose 4 in a row. Decide to revive my older more cycle heavy anyfin deck. Lose to a priest who I'm pretty sure thoughtstole double anyfin, but either way he didn't use one when it was obvious lethal so I cast my first to clear the board and put pressure on and then this gigantic dumbfuck casts his.
I'm so fucking angry
I'm so fucking angry
Played freeze mage up to rank 5 this season and it was a blast. Then ran into a wall of Druids and people who have Loatheb in their top 10 cards constantly. Would love to play it more except this meta is shit. And not sure Standard will help freeze mage either for the reason you stated.
Replace 'fucking druids' with 'fucking control warriors' and that's going to be the new meta.
More things change ...
Angelwatch
Trakanon Raider
- 3,053
- 133
Here's my short list of things that could use a good nerfing:
Druid: Force + Roar. I think the real problem is Force just because of how powerful Charge is. Druid has some strong cards but that combo is the problem.
Hunter: Oh where to start... A few high profile streamers like Kibler have basically said the problem with Hunter is that they have access to some of the best cards at every mana point. The cards I'd really look at are Explosive and Freezing Trap. Explosive just needs to be minion damage only. Freezing needs to have the mana adjustment component looked at. Many times adding 2 mana to a minion cost, effectively, kills it. A piloted shredder is really great at 4 mana. At 6 mana it's a bad play. Animal Companion is another one to look at. Every possibility is under cost at 3 mana but Blizzard has justified this because of the RNG component. I know it's selective bias and it's only 33.33% but it sure seems like Huffer comes out more than the others (especially for Face Hunters). Now I think nerfing all 3 of these cards might be too much but these are the 3 I'd look at.
Mage: Let's re-evaluate Freeze again. As others have said fuck Freeze Mages. The one good thing is that they are hard countered by Warrior. And as Famm said, an Alexstraza nerf might be enough since their whole strategy is, Trump voice, Delay! Delay! Delay! until they can hit you with Alex and follow up with burn.
Paladin: Fine as is. They're going to lose too many staple cards from Naxx and GVG that, if anything, they're going to need help from the xpack.
Priest: We're back to really slow control Priests again. Yay... Luckily slow control Priest was never all that popular. They lose a ton of stuff though. Dark Cultists, Shrinkmeisters, Velen's Chosen, Vol'jin and Light Bomb. I'd really like for Blizzard to move away from the "thief" play style but that seems to be where they want their niche to be. It's just not fun to play against at all when your stuff is constantly stolen and used against you. I've said it before, many Priests decks have no win conditions. They simply play to not lose. And that's terribly frustrating to play against. So on one hand they're going to need help but on the other hand it doesn't take much to really make them incredibly annoying.
Rogue: Oil Rogue is gone since they lose Oil and the sticky minions they relied on to utilize oil properly. I see a lot of people who try to keep Miracle alive with Auctioneers but since they were nerfed it's a lot harder for them to go off. I think after Standard they will be fine as is and possible need help. I'd really like to see a good Tempo or Mid-Range Rogue come back but the class just doesn't seem designed for it.
Shaman: They're going to be hurting again. Mech Shaman is gone. Aggro Shaman will need to be reworked but the loss of Crackle might be a death knell for them. They lose a lot of burst with that.
Warlock: Thank God they lose Imp-Plosion. 4 mana for 4 damage and 4 1/1s was stupid (Selective bias again but I NEVER see anything other than that when I'm playing against them). I don't think Warlocks are going to need any nerfs but I also don't think they're going to need any help either. Zoo will always be a solid concept for them.
Warrior: I honestly don't know. Control Warrior might become a Tier 1 deck again. The problem is that they are combo oriented but their combos are very easy to pull off compared to other classes. I think any change to them could push them too far in one direction or another. I think playing against them the worst part is the constant armor. You don't need to do 30 damage to them. It's a lot closer to 50 or 60. But if you make changes to armor than you radically change the class.
Neutrals: The usual suspects here. Leper Gnome and Knife Juggler are both really powerful for their cost. Based on what they've said in the past I wouldn't be surprised to see Ironbeak nerfed too. I think we're going to see even more Defenders of Argus again and Azure Drakes (an already popular card). I fully expect Alex to be tweeked. And, finally, I know they love the Giant concept but I still think they could be reworked.
Finally I am VERY happy to see Antique Healbot be sent to the scrap heap. I think it was a mistake to give every class that much healing. And it was absolutely bonkers for decks like Hand Lock who wanted to get their life really low for cheap Moltens and then heal right back up with a Healbot.
Druid: Force + Roar. I think the real problem is Force just because of how powerful Charge is. Druid has some strong cards but that combo is the problem.
Hunter: Oh where to start... A few high profile streamers like Kibler have basically said the problem with Hunter is that they have access to some of the best cards at every mana point. The cards I'd really look at are Explosive and Freezing Trap. Explosive just needs to be minion damage only. Freezing needs to have the mana adjustment component looked at. Many times adding 2 mana to a minion cost, effectively, kills it. A piloted shredder is really great at 4 mana. At 6 mana it's a bad play. Animal Companion is another one to look at. Every possibility is under cost at 3 mana but Blizzard has justified this because of the RNG component. I know it's selective bias and it's only 33.33% but it sure seems like Huffer comes out more than the others (especially for Face Hunters). Now I think nerfing all 3 of these cards might be too much but these are the 3 I'd look at.
Mage: Let's re-evaluate Freeze again. As others have said fuck Freeze Mages. The one good thing is that they are hard countered by Warrior. And as Famm said, an Alexstraza nerf might be enough since their whole strategy is, Trump voice, Delay! Delay! Delay! until they can hit you with Alex and follow up with burn.
Paladin: Fine as is. They're going to lose too many staple cards from Naxx and GVG that, if anything, they're going to need help from the xpack.
Priest: We're back to really slow control Priests again. Yay... Luckily slow control Priest was never all that popular. They lose a ton of stuff though. Dark Cultists, Shrinkmeisters, Velen's Chosen, Vol'jin and Light Bomb. I'd really like for Blizzard to move away from the "thief" play style but that seems to be where they want their niche to be. It's just not fun to play against at all when your stuff is constantly stolen and used against you. I've said it before, many Priests decks have no win conditions. They simply play to not lose. And that's terribly frustrating to play against. So on one hand they're going to need help but on the other hand it doesn't take much to really make them incredibly annoying.
Rogue: Oil Rogue is gone since they lose Oil and the sticky minions they relied on to utilize oil properly. I see a lot of people who try to keep Miracle alive with Auctioneers but since they were nerfed it's a lot harder for them to go off. I think after Standard they will be fine as is and possible need help. I'd really like to see a good Tempo or Mid-Range Rogue come back but the class just doesn't seem designed for it.
Shaman: They're going to be hurting again. Mech Shaman is gone. Aggro Shaman will need to be reworked but the loss of Crackle might be a death knell for them. They lose a lot of burst with that.
Warlock: Thank God they lose Imp-Plosion. 4 mana for 4 damage and 4 1/1s was stupid (Selective bias again but I NEVER see anything other than that when I'm playing against them). I don't think Warlocks are going to need any nerfs but I also don't think they're going to need any help either. Zoo will always be a solid concept for them.
Warrior: I honestly don't know. Control Warrior might become a Tier 1 deck again. The problem is that they are combo oriented but their combos are very easy to pull off compared to other classes. I think any change to them could push them too far in one direction or another. I think playing against them the worst part is the constant armor. You don't need to do 30 damage to them. It's a lot closer to 50 or 60. But if you make changes to armor than you radically change the class.
Neutrals: The usual suspects here. Leper Gnome and Knife Juggler are both really powerful for their cost. Based on what they've said in the past I wouldn't be surprised to see Ironbeak nerfed too. I think we're going to see even more Defenders of Argus again and Azure Drakes (an already popular card). I fully expect Alex to be tweeked. And, finally, I know they love the Giant concept but I still think they could be reworked.
Finally I am VERY happy to see Antique Healbot be sent to the scrap heap. I think it was a mistake to give every class that much healing. And it was absolutely bonkers for decks like Hand Lock who wanted to get their life really low for cheap Moltens and then heal right back up with a Healbot.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
- 43,727
- 52,269
Handlock isn't even a viable deck atm. If it weren't for healbot the meta would literally be 100% aggro.
Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
- 8,456
- 3,577
losing healbot and belcher are the two most scary things that will happen.
and while i agree with a lot of your points, I don't agree that every class is a "problem".
The problems are the frustrating & unfun decks.
Face decks are unfun simply because you are required to draw into your heals/taunts and even then a lot of times it feels like whatever you do is pointless. 0 Strategy involved a lot of times.
Freeze is similar, but not as bad, because you have many more turns to formulate a plan to try to win, but it is definitely frustrating if you can never use your minions.
OTK/Combo decks are unfun because they simply stall out the games until they get their combo. Anyfin/Freeze/old Patron/Combo Druid, etc
I don't agree Hunter is a problem at all. Sure, they have powerful class cards, but so do all classes. The issue is when face hunter is relevant, which will be solved if they nerf some of the stronger neutrals (Knife Juggler/Owl/Leper/Abusive), and by losing creeper.
and while i agree with a lot of your points, I don't agree that every class is a "problem".
The problems are the frustrating & unfun decks.
Face decks are unfun simply because you are required to draw into your heals/taunts and even then a lot of times it feels like whatever you do is pointless. 0 Strategy involved a lot of times.
Freeze is similar, but not as bad, because you have many more turns to formulate a plan to try to win, but it is definitely frustrating if you can never use your minions.
OTK/Combo decks are unfun because they simply stall out the games until they get their combo. Anyfin/Freeze/old Patron/Combo Druid, etc
I don't agree Hunter is a problem at all. Sure, they have powerful class cards, but so do all classes. The issue is when face hunter is relevant, which will be solved if they nerf some of the stronger neutrals (Knife Juggler/Owl/Leper/Abusive), and by losing creeper.
Famm
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 11,041
- 794
Preist:
I know you've said repeatedly how much you hate playing against priest, so you're probably happy. But I never got as salty with the stealing mechanics as you, though it can definitely piss me off at times too. The thing is I really love playing priest, have over like 700 ranked wins, and it grinds my fucking gears that they are taking such a massive step backwards. Losing Velen's and Lightbomb are absolutely murder on the class and like you said it reverts to slow ass shitty control like in the past with few options for other archetypes.
Even control is getting shit on without deathlord, which was never a perfect solution in the first place since it wrecks you more often than not in midrange and control matchups. I have faith that maybe a dragon deck will remain viable, but without Velen's its really going to be tough to manage. I have zero faith in Blizzard to rectify this with a single expansion, but maybe by the end of the year with an adventure plus second x-pack.
War:
I've long wished for an anti armor tech card. Nothing too crazy, but seems like there should be some interaction especially now that tank up is a thing. That shit is as demoralizing as freeze mage.
Junkheap:
I disagree on healbot, yes its obnoxious in freeze mage, hand/reno lock and oil, but those decks (fuck freeze mage tho) need that shit to be able to survive and add variety in HS's bursty ass metagame. I worry aggro will be out of control without chow/belcher/healbot, and I think most of us don't want to go back to tons of face hunters.