Hearthstone

Pyros · Jan 1, 2014

The Master_sl said:
Experimenting with a spell damage Shaman... it isn't good. Trying to come up with some consistent decks that are different from what is currently being played so I can do some climbing when the reset happens.

Well not enough spells to kill people with, only Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt hit players I believe so yeah. For spell damage I think it's mostly mage(obviously), rogue with evisc/sinister strike/headcrack and weapons, also synergy on spells cast with auctioneer and mana addict by spamming 0-1 cost spells like coldblood/backstab/shadowstep/prep and druid with starfire/swipe/moonfire, lots of board clearing spells and big creatures if spells are failing, good draw potential too with ancient of lore/regrowth. Priest maybe if you can find a decent way to stall, feel they lack in board clearing though but their spells are pretty strong.

Shamans are better off using their spells for control and using creatures to win I feel, since they lack direct damage options but have pretty good control spells. You could play spell board control then try to finish with creatures, but at that point it's just normal board control so you might as well drop the spellpower stuff and get better minions.

Bit like paladin, you could in theory run a spellpower paladin, but I don't think it's gonna be very good, the spells are either too expensive or don't do enough damage(or random damage). End up playing mostly a control paladin with a bunch of inefficient mobs for spellpower instead of stronger mobs.

That said, Geomancer is pretty good even if you don't put a large focus on spellpower. Especially if you can't afford a thalnos, but even with a thalnos, one geomancer can be nice as it will surprise people if you aoe for +1damage than what they expected.

As for arena, I feel I must have the worst luck possible. Everytime I draft a stupidly OP deck, I end up losing around 7-9 due to either drawing the most retarded stuff(have 5cards over 5, draw 4 of them in the first 2turns+mulligan hand) or people having crazy shit, which I could be ok with if it was all of it since that shit is gonna happen. I do lose every now and then to personnal mistakes and that angers me too, but I fucking hate not drawing a single 2 or 3 when I have 8 2s and 7 3s. Also always fucking happens when I'm going first.

My last 8wins paladin I think I had the best deck I've ever had for a paladin, hell I'd play it in constructed, I had a perfect curve, a good amount of draw, 3consecration+1truesilver, a decent amount of lategame(ogre, stormwind, guardian of kings, archmage, cairne and the 4/4+2/2 one). I won the first 8games by complete stomp besides losing one to a mage who "surprised" me by playing antonidas+mirror image, I couldn't remove antonidas due to the 2taunters and no consecration, then he played flamestrike, double fireball, flamestrike so no way to come back from that shit. That's ok though shit happens, and then I lost 2 games going first and drawing nothing for the first 3 turns in both games. I have a starting hand with 4 5 7, mulligan into 4 6 6, draw more 4+ cards. I had 18cards under 4 so I don't know, it seems the odds of not drawing a single one should be fairly low. If at least I go second when that happens I can coin a 4 on 3, 2 is hero power so it's not THAT bad, but going first it's basically losing the game from RNG. I'd need to write it down to see but I feel 2/3 of my losses is to drawing shit and getting raped the first 3turns because of it, even though I build my decks to draw decently during those turns.

Frustrating shit. Worst is when it happens in the first 3-4games though.

drtyrm · Jan 1, 2014

What's wrong with it? I would guess super strong vs aggro.

Arch · Jan 2, 2014

Pyros_sl said:
Well not enough spells to kill people with, only Lava Burst and Lightning Bolt hit players I believe so yeah. For spell damage I think it's mostly mage(obviously), rogue with evisc/sinister strike/headcrack and weapons, also synergy on spells cast with auctioneer and mana addict by spamming 0-1 cost spells like coldblood/backstab/shadowstep/prep and druid with starfire/swipe/moonfire, lots of board clearing spells and big creatures if spells are failing, good draw potential too with ancient of lore/regrowth. Priest maybe if you can find a decent way to stall, feel they lack in board clearing though but their spells are pretty strong.

Shamans are better off using their spells for control and using creatures to win I feel, since they lack direct damage options but have pretty good control spells. You could play spell board control then try to finish with creatures, but at that point it's just normal board control so you might as well drop the spellpower stuff and get better minions.

Bit like paladin, you could in theory run a spellpower paladin, but I don't think it's gonna be very good, the spells are either too expensive or don't do enough damage(or random damage). End up playing mostly a control paladin with a bunch of inefficient mobs for spellpower instead of stronger mobs.

That said, Geomancer is pretty good even if you don't put a large focus on spellpower. Especially if you can't afford a thalnos, but even with a thalnos, one geomancer can be nice as it will surprise people if you aoe for +1damage than what they expected.

As for arena, I feel I must have the worst luck possible. Everytime I draft a stupidly OP deck, I end up losing around 7-9 due to either drawing the most retarded stuff(have 5cards over 5, draw 4 of them in the first 2turns+mulligan hand) or people having crazy shit, which I could be ok with if it was all of it since that shit is gonna happen. I do lose every now and then to personnal mistakes and that angers me too, but I fucking hate not drawing a single 2 or 3 when I have 8 2s and 7 3s. Also always fucking happens when I'm going first.

My last 8wins paladin I think I had the best deck I've ever had for a paladin, hell I'd play it in constructed, I had a perfect curve, a good amount of draw, 3consecration+1truesilver, a decent amount of lategame(ogre, stormwind, guardian of kings, archmage, cairne and the 4/4+2/2 one). I won the first 8games by complete stomp besides losing one to a mage who "surprised" me by playing antonidas+mirror image, I couldn't remove antonidas due to the 2taunters and no consecration, then he played flamestrike, double fireball, flamestrike so no way to come back from that shit. That's ok though shit happens, and then I lost 2 games going first and drawing nothing for the first 3 turns in both games. I have a starting hand with 4 5 7, mulligan into 4 6 6, draw more 4+ cards. I had 18cards under 4 so I don't know, it seems the odds of not drawing a single one should be fairly low. If at least I go second when that happens I can coin a 4 on 3, 2 is hero power so it's not THAT bad, but going first it's basically losing the game from RNG. I'd need to write it down to see but I feel 2/3 of my losses is to drawing shit and getting raped the first 3turns because of it, even though I build my decks to draw decently during those turns.

Frustrating shit. Worst is when it happens in the first 3-4games though.

I really hate when this happens, I am not good at this game so I think that makes it worse, I can lose myself without getting hatefucked by RNG. Finally moving my win count up consistently in arena and have a decent constructed Druid deck too, enjoying the game still.

The Master · Jan 2, 2014

Drtyrm_sl said:
What's wrong with it? I would guess super strong vs aggro.

It just kind of dies to everything, not enough spells. You left out Frost Shock btw. I won a game by Frost Shocking someone to death. Drop Malygos, already had 7 spell damage on board, so I hit him for 13.

Zulst_sl · Jan 2, 2014

They really need to add mage pirates unless Thalnos just wants to start sailing, maybe with a Gadgetzan Auctioneer as his first mate.

Going to have to diminish the pirate purity to make the deck more standard by adding some spell power, some card draw, and a Leeroy. Seems piraty enough for me. People on the ranked ladder just won't see those 9/1 parrots coming.

When it hits a wall, probably around rank 12, I'll just switch back over to the control rogue. Maybe I'll throw in a parrot and Captain Greenskin because I love those cards now.

Proof of Concept, and I hear Pirates enjoy gold:

Morrow · Jan 2, 2014

Zulst_sl said:
They really need to add mage pirates unless Thalnos just wants to start sailing, maybe with a Gadgetzan Auctioneer as his first mate.

Going to have to diminish the pirate purity to make the deck more standard by adding some spell power, some card draw, and a Leeroy. Seems piraty enough for me. People on the ranked ladder just won't see those 9/1 parrots coming.

When it hits a wall, probably around rank 12, I'll just switch back over to the control rogue. Maybe I'll throw in a parrot and Captain Greenskin because I love those cards now.

Proof of Concept, and I hear Pirates enjoy gold:

Better, but don't need 2 Auctioneers with 11 spells. If he turns into a Pirate though, definitely!

Mures · Jan 2, 2014

Pyros_sl said:
Bit like paladin, you could in theory run a spellpower paladin, but I don't think it's gonna be very good, the spells are either too expensive or don't do enough damage(or random damage). End up playing mostly a control paladin with a bunch of inefficient mobs for spellpower instead of stronger mobs.

Just use wild pyromancers with paladin, of course it works great with eqality, but it also turns consecrate into 3 damage to all enemy minions and turns hammers into swipe with a card draw.

Angelwatch · Jan 2, 2014

Yay! My 100 gold pack had Nat Pagle in it! I know he's extremely situational but some decks really like him. I don't think I'm going to be too quick to disenchant him just yet.

The Ancient_sl · Jan 2, 2014

Nat pagle is trash. He was my first legendary and wasted too much time trying to find a way to make him useful. You are better off with a loot hoarder or a novice engineer because at least they guarantee a card and can attack. There are a number of other better two drops that don't guarantee to offer your opponent tempo.

Pyros · Jan 2, 2014

If you were using it before last patch, he was bugged at 25% instead of 50%. Think he's an alright card, definitely not top tier but decent enough in a control/lategame deck if you need some draws. The 4 defense makes him hard to kill right away(especially if you coin it on turn1 and opponent hasn't something yet) and he acts as a pseudo taunt that can also draw you cards. Also interesting if you happen to have buffs, like mark of the wild, dark iron dwarf and such. I'd rate him above the truly shitty legendaries, but below average still. Kinda like Hogger. Your deck isn't miuch stronger for having it in, but it's not really much weaker either.

Mures · Jan 2, 2014

Yeah, definitely wouldn't consider him trash. He can be really good in control decks. Had an opponent play one against me just yesterday and it managed to live past more than just one turn and he got a card draw at the end of both turns, so drawing 2 cards and soaking up 5 damage for 2 mana is even more than really good. Granted it is a little lucky he got a card draw both times, but even if you take the average and you only get 1 card out of him; drawing 1 card and soaking up 1-2 minion hits or a silence/removal is one of the best 2 drops you can have.

The Ancient_sl · Jan 2, 2014

Pyros_sl said:
If you were using it before last patch, he was bugged at 25% instead of 50%. Think he's an alright card, definitely not top tier but decent enough in a control/lategame deck if you need some draws. The 4 defense makes him hard to kill right away(especially if you coin it on turn1 and opponent hasn't something yet) and he acts as a pseudo taunt that can also draw you cards. Also interesting if you happen to have buffs, like mark of the wild, dark iron dwarf and such. I'd rate him above the truly shitty legendaries, but below average still. Kinda like Hogger. Your deck isn't miuch stronger for having it in, but it's not really much weaker either.

I'd rather use the buffs on an actual useful card to begin with. Coining him on turn 1 is a terrible play unless you don't have another 2 drop in which case, you should take Nat Pagle out and put another 2 drop in your deck. He's never good. He's a 0/4 do nothing that you might get 2 cards out of.

Big deal he soaks up minion hits. He trades nothing. It's 2 turns later, maybe you have an extra card out of the deal, but your opponent has more minions on the board because one of the cards you put out was fucking Nat Pagle.

Mures · Jan 2, 2014

Yeah, but 2 turns later in a control deck you should have a swipe/consecrate/abomination to remove piddly early minions.

Pyros · Jan 2, 2014

Board state early game tends to be irrelevant for control decks, especially druid one. Generally the only 2 drops you'll run are novice engineer, thalnos and ancient watcher+sunfury. Ancient watcher being the only one that'd be more interesting to coin, assuming you also have a sunfury or mark of the wild(if you run those) in your hand also so you can make it relevant, otherwise might as well wait next turn. The 2drops in druid control are for drawing more spells, either innervates to play bigger cards sooner or wrath/claw/swipe to remove shit from the board. Nat Pagle works just fine in that setup, you're not gonna do any damage anyway or it's negligible and he'll soak up 4 to 6 damage depending on the enemy mobs/hero power.

It's obviously fucking awful if you play aggro, and especially if you play warlock.

The Ancient_sl · Jan 2, 2014

You can't count on that at all.

I'll do the math so you guys understand it better. Let's be a little generous and say Nat Pagle last 3 turns(counting when you play him) and draws you 1.5 cards. He costs you a card to play him so that's a net .5 card to you. He trades nothing so that's a +1 board to your opponents. If you think .5 card is better than a minion on the board I don't know what to tell you, but I think you are nuts. There are better 2 drops to put into your deck including a number of commons. I'll take an Amani or an Acidic Ooze any day.

Even if you have a control deck where you clear the board after Nat dies, you don't have the mana to play anything else and your opponent still has the tempo advantage since it's now their turn with an empty board and you've already dumped a removal spell out of your deck.

Angelwatch · Jan 2, 2014

He's not great but he's not terrible. I doubt I'll get a lot of mileage out of him but I'm a bit leery on disenchanting Legendary cards (though I had no issue of disenchanting 2 of my 3 Malygos). We'll see. I'm a bit low on dust right now and don't have a ton of other cards I want to disenchant right now so I'm not in a hurry. Besides you never know when the meta is going to shift and he suddenly becomes a MUST HAVE IN ALL DECKS kind of guy (unlikely but possible).

elidib · Jan 2, 2014

I agree with the ancient, and go further to say that they may not even have an empty board after that if they had harvest golem or argent squire. Even in a control deck, for 2 mana, I'd rather have like a faerie dragon to be sure that they have to trade it instead of being able to use a removal spell and keeping tempo.

Zulst_sl · Jan 2, 2014

I like Nat Pagle in a Warrior deck. You really don't care what their board looks like anyway and him soaking up the early minion hits gives you an extra turn or two to get the right cards in your hand.

Mures · Jan 2, 2014

The Ancient_sl said:
You can't count on that at all.

I'll do the math so you guys understand it better. Let's be a little generous and say Nat Pagle last 3 turns(counting when you play him) and draws you 1.5 cards. He costs you a card to play him so that's a net .5 card to you. He trades nothing so that's a +1 board to your opponents. If you think .5 card is better than a minion on the board I don't know what to tell you, but I think you are nuts. There are better 2 drops to put into your deck including a number of commons. I'll take an Amani or an Acidic Ooze any day.

Even if you have a control deck where you clear the board after Nat dies, you don't have the mana to play anything else and your opponent still has the tempo advantage since it's now their turn with an empty board and you've already dumped a removal spell out of your deck.

Meh, as Pyros has said board state early game isn't really all that important in late game control decks. For example, the popular late game control paladin deck I believe its only 2 drop minions are argent protectors, fairie dragons, and wild pyromancer, which you pretty much always want to hang onto and play with another card. Having a better chance to have the right card in hand and stalling is probably more important than trading 1 for 1 with an early minion although it is highly debatable if he is worth running or not.

Warrior deck is another deck he could fit well into since they are just trying to draw the cards to kill you in one turn anyway.

The Master · Jan 2, 2014

The Ancient_sl said:
You can't count on that at all.

I'll do the math so you guys understand it better. Let's be a little generous and say Nat Pagle last 3 turns(counting when you play him) and draws you 1.5 cards. He costs you a card to play him so that's a net .5 card to you. He trades nothing so that's a +1 board to your opponents. If you think .5 card is better than a minion on the board I don't know what to tell you, but I think you are nuts. There are better 2 drops to put into your deck including a number of commons. I'll take an Amani or an Acidic Ooze any day.

Even if you have a control deck where you clear the board after Nat dies, you don't have the mana to play anything else and your opponent still has the tempo advantage since it's now their turn with an empty board and you've already dumped a removal spell out of your deck.

Assumes your opponent plays no cards to remove it. If you run into a control deck that has nothing but spell removal, they have to. I've seen it absorb Shadow Words, Claws, Wraths, half of a Deadly Poision+one monster attack. I did have a guy ignore it all game once, it drew me 4 cards and he died on turn 7. Also had it get silenced and then ignored... won me the game, gave me an Argus target. Those are anecdotal of course, but in practice it almost always absorbs a silence, forces your opponent to use a card, etc.

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