Hearthstone

The idea is you avoid completing 40g quests as long as possible in the hopes of rerolling them to 60/100/pack quests.

Please stop posting.

You only get one per day. So if you always leave one slot open, the idea is you get a 60/100 and reroll a 40 into a 60/100 before you complete it 'at worst'. You only have a net gain unless you stack 40g quests to fill your queue and fail to reroll to a 60/100 all on the same day which means you are just unlucky and need to complete a 40g one.

It hasn't seen much play and takes 11 mana without emp (so you need emp..) but the out-of-nowhere 20 face damage velen -> 2x mind blast is amazing. Like "ho hum another long ass priest fight oh wait I'm dead".

I'm normally against making too many changes to the game (i.e. nerfing things out of hand) but I'm fully on board the "nerf patron warrior" train.

I just lost a game where I went from 30 health to dead in a single turn when the Warrior had an empty board and a 1 Charge Death's Bite (which tells me that I need to be careful). I had 2 minions on board. Then the usual shenanigans with Warsong Commander, Frothing, Patron, Inner Rage and I'm dead from 30 to zero.

Here's my reasoning: Patron Warrior punishes you for playing minions. Having two minions on the board is NOT overextending. But I would have survived that turn if I had zero. You are also punished for having low attack minions. Around turn 5 you must stop playing any minion that has less than 3 attack and if you still have any 1 or 2 attack minions on the board you need to actively try and kill them off. This is not a case where Sylvanus forces less than optimal trades where you will kill off a 3 attack minion before a 5 attack minion to prevent her from stealing something. This is "If you have minions with less than 3 attack on the board, you automatically lose the game."

What if they don't draw into their combo? Half of the deck is designed around killing you in one turn with their combos. The other half is pure card draw. It's very possible for the Warrior to have drawn an additoinal 5 cards by turn 6 when they are running double acolyte of pain, slam, gnomish inventor, battle rage and even loot hoarders. In my game the Warrior Slammed my Turn 1 Mana Wyrm simply to cycle the card and the Mana Wyrm went on to live until turn 5 before being executed.

Just rush them down! Much easier said than done. Warriors are extremely durable with Armor Up and some even run Shield Block for extra survivability and the ability to cycle their deck (see above). They also pack enough removal to control the early game with weapons, Slam, Execute and so on. They can do a very good job of keeping the game locked down and keeping the opponent's side clear until they allow a few minions to build up to take advantage of the synergy from Frothings and Patrons.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm not Blizzard. It's for them to figure out. But if it was up to me I'd be taking a very close look at Warsong Commander. He's the reason that Warriors can take someone from 30 to dead in a single turn. Charge is a broken mechanic and has been the core of most game breaking combos (Original Unleash the Hounds, Leeroy Jenkins, OTK Giant Warrior). So I'd simply be in favor of removing Warsong Commander from the game and replacing him with another card. I mentioned before that Brian Kibler feels that Battle Rage is the culprit. He makes a good case but I don't really agree. Battle Rage makes the combo more consistent but Battle Rage is only used in this one deck and if you nerf it, Warriors simply replace it with other forms of card draw .

Anyway, it's just a frustrating deck to play against.

Maybe they give it the old Starving Buzzard treatment and make it a 3/3 for 6 mana or something heh.

I do agree with what you are saying and that it will probably be nerfed for that reason. I said it earlier in the thread but Patron is the new, better, Miracle.

Angelwatch_sl said:

But if it was up to me I'd be taking a very close look at Warsong Commander. He's the reason that Warriors can take someone from 30 to dead in a single turn.

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Commander is a female, misogynistic shitlord!

I still say just make commander only buff a minion if its current attack is two or less. No more charge for patrons or belchers and probably most importantly Frothing loses charge once you enrage it.

Just change her text from "when you play a minion with three or less attack" to "minions with two or less attack have charge". Simple. Just like Deckhand and existence of a weapon essentially, if two or less attack then charge, if three or more then no charge. Of course this also kills Patron as a card most likely and puts Warsong back on the unplayed minions list as well, but the shit is out of control I think everyone agrees.

I suppose you could change the mechanic for frothing and leave the three attack part so they can still summon charging patrons, that's a compromise.

My theory for the biggest reason Blizzard might not want to nerf: it removes the only other viable archetype for warrior and the only one of the two that doesn't cost a million dust to create.

Famm_sl said:

Commander is a female, misogynistic shitlord!

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Shows how much I pay attention to card artwork... And I play with the sound off because I'm usually watching TV or something.

slippery_sl said:

This is the only thing that matters and why they will probably end up changing something (likely Warsong Commander, 3 mana 2/1 anyone?!). Their design philosophy has always been they want you to fight for the board.

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The most sensible fix to Commander would be for her to have the ability after she's been sitting around a turn. If they could find the means to code that.

Anything else will be an occasional problem or nerf it into uselessness. The problem is she allows no chance of reaction right now instead of a short window of opportunity to disrupt.

For those who haven't read it here's a link to Brian Kibler's thoughts:

On Patron Warrior and Nerfs: Everyone Get Out of Here! - BMK Gaming

I like Kibler a lot. He has a strong MTG background and he understands the game at a fundamental level. His thoughts are also well reasoned and he backs them up. He makes a very compelling case for Battle Rage being the culprit in Patron decks. The short version is that it gives too much upside for no downside. At worst it cycles itself for 2 mana 99 times out of 100. At best it can draw 4 or 5 cards for 2 mana and that's the type of hyper-efficiency that Blizzard doesn't like based on their nerfs to Buzzard and Auctioneer. Like I said those are good points.

But I still think that Warsong Commander is the real problem. SHE just allows for some crazy combos that can burst down an opponent from full health to zero too easily. Like I said, card draw usually isn't an issue for Warrior and with Emperor T in the mix even more devastating combos are possible. And for the record I agree with Kibler that while Emperor can create some brutal combos, he's not the issue in this deck. Just a symptom of a larger problem. Nerfing Commander so that she only gives charge to 2 attack minions (and if they go over 2 attack they lose the charge) simply kills Commander. I can live with that but I think it's better for Commander to be scrapped and rewritten. But that takes a lot of work from Blizzard's part and they seem really reluctant to do that. Charge is simply such a powerful ability that it's too easy for abuse.

Make the Warsong Commander's charge ability into a battlecry and call it a day?

Completely change Warsong Commander to have a different ability entirely unrelated to charge so that she isn't used in a THIRD broken combo deck some time in the future? And I do agree with Kibler when he says that Battle Rage is an incredibly broken card in the context of the deck, but the deck does function quite well even when you don't get a broken Battle Rage turn, and Commander is the lynchpin.

Just played another Patron Warrior. Again, I had two minions down and here comes Warsong, Frothing, etc, etc, etc. If they nerf Patron Warrior it has to be by hitting Warsong Commander. She's the reason it works.

Patron Warrior is, bar none, the most frustrating deck to play against (and this comes from someone who despises any and all priest decks). It's infuriating to get punished so heavily for actually having the gall to play minions in a game. It's been awhile ago but the devs stated that Hearthstone was meant to be a game based on minions and fighting for board control. They don't like "non-interactive" gameplay. That's the reasoning behind nerfing Pyroblast, Unleash The Hounds, and charge mechanics. Remember this quote: "We want the game to be about playing minions and fighting for board control rather than just waiting until you can play your big combo and win in one turn with no interaction from your opponent." Unless they have changed their philosophy (and it's possible since that quote was from Closed Beta), Patron Warrior goes directly against that idea.

I hate Priest Decks but, thankfully, they're a weak enough class that you don't see too many of them. I despise Face Huntard but games against them are often a coin flip and they're over fast. It's not fun losing to them when they get nut draws and there is, literally, nothing you can do. But they have enough limitations in place that they're beatable. Patron Warrior is simply not fun to play against. It's everything that Blizzard says they are against: Non-Interactive Gameplay, losing from an opponent's empty board, inability to play minions, etc.

OK. Rant off. I just needed to vent.