Home Improvement

Yeah, as you can see there's already conduit running exposed in the area. I was just going to have them add a dimmer switch and a bit of conduit on the right hand side on the wall near that big iron corner plate, and then the 24v wiring can just be fished behind/through the various shelving. Should be slick.

Picasso_sl said:

On light color i recommend buying several and seeing which one you like. I like 3500 but it is fairly clinical i think. 2700 is pretty standard yellowish

Were you involved with construction in warehouse conversion?

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No. Wish I was. The mechanical systems in the building are a fucking farce. The mechanical consultant who designed it has long since been out of business, but unfortunately there's about 20-30 projects sprinkled around Alberta with his shit in them. Service guys love him, though.

As far as DIY for the lighting, it needs to be integrated with the shelving, have new conduit run to a dimmer and so on. Trust me, with what I'm paying for the millwork, the lighting is an afterthought.

I think we had some plumbers here so I got a question.
I was handed a check for $15,000 for a bathroom in a friends home that has no plumbing in a room above a garage.
Basically I am picking out all everything for the job for him and due to space I have already selected the commode, shower unit/frameless glass doors, fixtures even the mirror and stuff.
Being my hatred for sweating copper in tight places and I have to run 40 feet to tie into the kitchen for each run to the upstairs I was considering using Pex.

My experience with Pex however is limited to doing repairs in TN in bathrooms. The crimper/clamps and even tubing was all supplied. I just measured, looped expansions, cut and clamped.
I don't trust the shit in home improvement stores for this so what brand clamps/crimp tool should I order. I figure with the money saved over copper hardline I might as well get something good and reliable.

Edited to add:
My largest concern with Pex has always been transitions. So best quality stub outs and tie in to copper. Also considering pex into 2nd level then all copper to shower/pedestal sink/commode from one location.

I'm curious as to why you're opposed to pex? I'm not a pro, but I've worked for home builders, and done a lot of plumbing, and I think pex is the poo. Especially in new construction.

Not trying to be contrary, just wondering why you loathe it, and hoping to hear a pro opinion on this matter.

My very concern with Pex is the sharkbite connectors. Every instance I have seen a sharkbite fail it wasn't copper to copper or copper to cpvc it was copper to pex due to expansion. Then again most people don't allow for 10 inches expansion per 50 feet of pex run. Shit literally moves up to that much.

I have until the 5th now to plan this out plumbing wise so bought myself some time this weekend.

Uber Uberest_sl said:

Lurkingdirk, I'm just going to assume you've used copper, cpvc, and pex for water distribution pipe. When you install copper or CPVC the diameter of the inside of the pipe is 1/2" and the fittings themselves are installed over the pipe, thus keeping a continous volume of flow. In the Massachusetts code book there are minimum requirements for the size of pipe to be delivered to fixtures, also some higher end shower valves and body sprayers will not work correctly if they do not receive the required volume.

When you install a pex system the fitting is installed within the pipe, and the interior size of that fitting is closer to 1/4" or 3/8", you are now bottlenecking your volume at every fitting. Also, just from a professional standpoint, when it's installed, it looks like dogshit. I like clean, straight lines, pex makes your job look less professional.

Give CPVC a shot, it's almost as fast as PEX and just as cheap stock wise.

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These are good points. I tend to use 3/4 in pex in place of 1/2 inch copper, which is what I've done in this house. I know, it's more expensive, but I do like a healthy water flow.

I've used CPVC, and it's fine, but to me (this is a stupid, but stuck in my head thing), that stuff feels cheap and unreliable. It's dumb, I know, but I have a hard time getting past that.

Ya that is the positive of pex on freezing.
My issue with the Cpvc is half of my runs is under existing house and the purpose of this bathroom is for value in home.
Also I've had issues in past with cpvc being brittle long term. I would hope it has improved in the past 20 years but I am not sure if they have changed the quality of it any.

He listed it on the market earlier this year a few months for $525 and it was appraised for $480.
This is the same house I posted pictures of the shower I did in the master dozens of pages back and I've done work for this man yearly for the past 15 years.
Everyone that looked at it mentioned how if someone was using the room above the garage they would have to travel 80 feet to get to a bathroom, even though this house has 4 and only 3 bedrooms.
Course this room wasn't always finished I did that years ago and installed drywall, hardwood and whatnot in it and a separate hvac unit just for this 1 room.

So I probably need to run copper from kitchen to garage at the least so under the house it is all consistent, then from there switch to pex/cpvc.
I was leaning pex cause even though I will insulate the areas well it is still in a garage in the walls.

The walls in this room are 61" at the edges and slopes out 50" to reach the full 8 ft ceilings.
I am also installed 2 mini closets on 1 end and in the hvac closet a pull out fridge/microwave center.
With the sloped ceilings and limited nook of 8x6 it presents challenges to the bath.

Ya I think that is the way I am going to go with it.
Here in a few weeks when I start demo and get some photos I may PM you if that is ok asking about supply rate and so forth once I see what the main supply is under the house. If it is 3/4 now I will continue that across the kitchen and may switch it to half before the leg up or whatever. Need to get inside the walls and see what I go before I ask much farther. Now I am can at least budget that part out and start on some of the other ticket items and figure out a budget.
Poor guy has a bad roof too and it isn't a cheap house, when we called adjuster today after I found hail dings and wind ripped shingles found out he had a 10k deduct on his policy since it changed over to 2% last year. He had a 1k deduct until that policy change last year so even if covered is only going to cover 50% of it.

He said go with it told the insurance guy to contact me , he was going back to Florida see you in January lol.

Uber Uberest_sl said:

Lurkingdirk, I'm just going to assume you've used copper, cpvc, and pex for water distribution pipe. When you install copper or CPVC the diameter of the inside of the pipe is 1/2" and the fittings themselves are installed over the pipe, thus keeping a continous volume of flow. In the Massachusetts code book there are minimum requirements for the size of pipe to be delivered to fixtures, also some higher end shower valves and body sprayers will not work correctly if they do not receive the required volume.

When you install a pex system the fitting is installed within the pipe, and the interior size of that fitting is closer to 1/4" or 3/8", you are now bottlenecking your volume at every fitting. Also, just from a professional standpoint, when it's installed, it looks like dogshit. I like clean, straight lines, pex makes your job look less professional.

Give CPVC a shot, it's almost as fast as PEX and just as cheap stock wise.

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More or less agreed. And points for not pulling out the "everything sucks compared to copper" thing that many old school guys still hang their hats on. Copper is a terrible material in a lot of ways, primarily due to expense of both the material and installation, and the fact that copper is very, very susceptible to leaks in systems where it receives continual flow (domestic recirc, hydronic heating etc) if the system isn't balanced properly. There are probably hundreds of plumbing companies that have made fortunes on going in to houses, hotels, and apartments to replace copper lines that keep leaking.

We only do large apartment, condos and hotels and basically our systems for water are PEX for the home-run within the suites (concealed, no one gives a shit what it looks like), PEX or CPVC for the risers up through the building, CPVC or copper in the parkade for the mains and branches (rigid systems look better), and then generally copper in the mechanical room (availability and cost of large fittings in CPVC or PEX turns to shit much past 2" in comparison to copper, and if you do get leaks, they're easy to fix and won't damage anything. Copper also requires less support).

In most of our systems, the home-run to the final fixture is only 20-40', so flow restriction isn't going to be a concern in the slightest. And you don't see a lot of high end shower systems in our projects anyways. If anything it's going the opposite way, local authorities are limiting the flow of faucets, shower heads, toilet flush amounts etc. yet engineers are still sizing everything the same for the mains/branches/risers as they did 30 years ago when toilets and faucets used three times as much water.

lurkingdirk_sl said:

I've used CPVC, and it's fine, but to me (this is a stupid, but stuck in my head thing), that stuff feels cheap and unreliable. It's dumb, I know, but I have a hard time getting past that.

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We do 500-1000 condo/apartment/hotel suites a year, and I can assure you that there's nothing wrong with CPVC in the long run. And in some cases, the last thing you'd want in your house/building is copper. I live in an old warehouse loft conversion, with an absolutely retarded combined heating/domestic water system that thankfully was installed in CPVC (we didn't do the install). If that shit was copper, my condo association would probably have had to rip every piece of copper out of the system after 10 years due to an ever increasing number of leaks, at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars due to all the walls that would have to be opened up. CPVC will basically last forever, barring the occasional break due to expansion/contraction and poor installation.

Olebass_sl said:

Also I've had issues in past with cpvc being brittle long term. I would hope it has improved in the past 20 years but I am not sure if they have changed the quality of it any.

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We've seen that as well, actually. It's somewhat concerning, but on the other hand, if you are having physical impacts on the piping, you've probably got other problems. That brittleness doesn't affect it's ability to withstand pressure.

Uber Uberest_sl said:

I work for a larger plumbing company, we do 300 unit apartment and condo complexes and high rises.

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Need a job? Green as hell journeyman rate is up to $39/hr!

Ok I've decided I'm going to go with CPVC once I get to the garage. This allows me to remain copper in the main house and what is visible below then transition the copper to cpvc in a place that will be not only accessable via panel in garage but allow full conversion at one point. Should make it easier on plumbers, inspectors when he goes to sell the house and whatnot and just makes sense.

Every issue I've had with CPVC before involved old pipes, demo and whatnot. Basically sit there 10/20/whatever years someone tears out a wall taps it with a stud or hammer and boom, busted from being more brittle than it was originally, however thinking back on it I don't recall many issues as long as it remains undisturbed.

I'm thinking giving it a good berth say like 1 inch holes for a 3/4" line or better, but I am concerned about sealants in the hole. I guess I need to find out if silicones and or latex caulkings will affect the pipe and I'll use clip straps every few feet for stability.
I opted for CPVC over Pex simply for the reason I don't need any specialized tools that I already don't have. I already have pvc sheers and a pipe cutter and fittings are readily available.

I am going to try to find or design a better way for stubouts though. I can't stand when I see pvc pipes sticking out of drywall with no support except back in the wall and usually after a bend. I know I remember in TN putting up fire treated ply flush with metal studs and then drilled holes through it and it made it super strong when I did the commercial bid , maybe I can do that here too where the supplies come through.

I've decided with a 3" commode drain to the corner( 5 feet ) where it will hit the stack I have running down then under to the existing kitchen main drain. Shower and sink will have their own 2 inch drains and shower ( or main stack since it'll be in corner behind shower ) sink will have 2 inch vents tied together above ceiling to 1 roof vent. Still debating if I need to leg a vent off the commode or not. I shouldn't by numbers which is about 4 feet of 3 inch before it ties into the stack which will have a straight up 2 inch vent.

Bought him a cool commode today,Shop Penguin Toilets White 1.28-GPF (4.85-LPF) 12-in Rough-In WaterSense Elongated 2-Piece Comfort Height Toilet at Lowes.comhas a secondary drain. Think if I like it once I put it in I'll start using those on 2nd floor remodels.

Built in overflow protection to boot ha every damn toilet needs that