TrollfaceDeux
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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I think I have become a shitty human being
- Thread starter GoingBackToCali_sl
- Start date
Izo
Tranny Chaser
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It explains some shitty mod action, not their nomination for their position. I'm sure Tubro has his reasons, wanting to take someone under his wings. He seem to exhibit some form of reasoned morality as an employer. It doesn't kick in in this threads arguments though - he jumps the bad employee, OP's worker, here. Puzzling.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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No. It's the manager's job to ensure the job his group is assigned gets done. Part of being a supervisor/manager is the hiring and firing process. It'd be nice if everyone you hire shows up ready to work and didn't lie about their skills but that's not the case.
That's a western, neo-liberal view of how people and companies should organize themselves. It's the classical 'everyone has to pick up the bum's dead weight' mode of thought. But this constant intra-competition doesn't serve you, your manager, or society better in the long run because it's not healthy.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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It's difficult to agree with that when I, and likely most people, have first hand experience of what happens when a weak or incapacitated manager keeps dead weight in the group. Not only does the dead weight drain the resources but people see him get cut slack constantly and lose their motivation.
In the long run, festering dead weight can cause the failure of the entire group. This isn't even about the working man vs the bourgeois. This is just at the small scale of 3-6 peers working together to accomplish something.
I'm not saying you shouldn't reprimand or find an avenue to make the person perform better. But the atmosphere could be why a person performs poorly - not due to his or her nature or the nature of the work itself. Cutthroat competition, the 'greed is good' paradigm of working long and hard hours under stress to perform probably makes more teams fail than any one person's dead weight.
Somewhere along the way (in the 70s, 80s) America lost the idea of the responsibility of the company to the worker. Now it's wholly vice versa: perform well or you're fired, onto next labor bot in line. It's a top-down view of management making decisions that's entirely in their or their company's sole interest, not the interest of the group of people working for them.
In this case, a good manager would look for avenues to make this person productive. If he's slow, give him time and slow work. If he's lazy, try to encourage. The company has a responsibility to do this. Why you ask? Because collectively we allow that company to exist, and through that allowance are born responsibilities to every person they employ, regardless of whether they're a superstar or they totally suck.
Somewhere along the way (in the 70s, 80s) America lost the idea of the responsibility of the company to the worker. Now it's wholly vice versa: perform well or you're fired, onto next labor bot in line. It's a top-down view of management making decisions that's entirely in their or their company's sole interest, not the interest of the group of people working for them.
In this case, a good manager would look for avenues to make this person productive. If he's slow, give him time and slow work. If he's lazy, try to encourage. The company has a responsibility to do this. Why you ask? Because collectively we allow that company to exist, and through that allowance are born responsibilities to every person they employ, regardless of whether they're a superstar or they totally suck.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Except you'll always have "dead weight". As the cliche goes, you're only as good as your weakest link.
It sounds like that employee had "cracked the code" decades ago and has just been riding the cordial, yes-sir-no-sir, apology train for his entire career.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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Having worked in many projects where no one was dead weight I completely disagree with this. Yes, there will always be a weakest link, sometimes there's a couple mediocre guys and a couple talented guys and that's ok.
Is there ever an instance in your mind that you think it'd be okay to fire someone who comes to work on time every day, says all the right things but slacks off every time he can and when he's forced to work he does a shitty job?
I don't know the details of the OP's group and worker who was let go, but I do have first hand experience with people who were bad hires and were heavily coached, mentored and focused on by senior devs and supervisors. After months of wasted time and having to rework everything they did they were fired. If your opinion is that this firing was wrong I have to believe you live in a fantasy world.
Like I said, I relegated him to fucking labor duty (even though he was getting paid like an ironworker), and I still see him zone out. He was old, but to fucking space out (which now makes sense given his artistic background) for 10 minutes while everyone around him is moving/building/installing was not only lazy but also dangerous. I think I wouldn't have blown over if I was allowed to pay him less due to his inferior skills, but somehow he managed to obtain an Apprentice 4 qualification (no fucking clue how), and we were forced to pay him according to that scale.
Again, imagine you paid 10,000 expecting a night with Scarlett Johansson, only to get fucking Rosie O'Donnell instead. And you have no way out of it except to pull your pants down and hope for the best. I don't think I acted like a professional (only 24 here and learning to manage people), but now that I thought about it for a few days I'm just pissed that I couldn't fire him earlier.
You don't have to be 40 years old to have empathy. If your whole story isn't bullshit, you shouldn't be managing anyone, ever.
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
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As someone who has worked in a skilled trade, I probably would have told you to go fuck yourself if "retard" or "you're fucking useless" had come out of your mouth. Mind you I can do my job so I doubt you would have, but most guys (especially union guys) aren't afraid to tell you to go pound sand. Especially if you're some young douchebag who is in a position to supervise skilled trade guys, many of whom probably have decades of experience while you have dick besides a degree.
There are always problems with experience, even with guys who have legit work experience in a trade. Maybe you'll run into a journeyman who spent 5 years in a niche portion of a trade then shows up on a job and has no clue what to do. It happens and it's happened to me personally. This guy though sounds like he was completely a fish out of water.
I don't know how your site is run but I would have been tempted to pair him up with someone to keep an eye on him and try guiding him (another ironhead or whatever trade he was) to see exactly how worthless he was.
Fifey
Trakanon Raider
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I've been fired twice for telling the owner to "go fuck themselves" but I've never worked a union job because I dislike the punching clock bullshit that comes with it.
My work you are commission and get paid for what you produce so if you are terrible at your job, you just won't make any money and that solves itself pretty quickly.
To the OP, you are kind of a dick but sometimes people deserve to get called retarded.
iannis
Musty Nester
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You guys need to remember he's also talking about a construction crew. They tend to be more roughneck and you don't have to couch your words. You can get away with calling a guy "retarded" on a crew like that (and he can often get away with telling you to fuck yourself right back... IF the work is there) where in other fields you have to be more subtle about it. You can't call him a faggot though, those are actual literal fighting words.
Think about it. You do the exact same bullshit in other fields. It's what the entirety of the show "the office" was even about. It's why people thought that drek was funny.
Which kinda sounds like Dumar's dream corporation, tbh.
Think about it. You do the exact same bullshit in other fields. It's what the entirety of the show "the office" was even about. It's why people thought that drek was funny.
Which kinda sounds like Dumar's dream corporation, tbh.
Blazin
Creative Title
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I've been running construction crews for years, an can attest to having to deal with some real bottom of the barrel people. And as the owner these are people that have cost me money but at no time would I berate someone in the manner you did, seems very childish and makes you look out of control. I would list the skill of making the best of what I have to work with it as a primary skill of how I have made my living. It doesn't just mean giving menial tasks but attempting to find what strengths you can in a person. As a supervisor the more troubled workers are the ones that demand your time but that is why you are there, you aren't there to watch the guy with 20yr experience.