I think I have become a shitty human being

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Dyvim

Dyvim

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Tuco_sl said:
It's difficult to agree with that when I, and likely most people, have first hand experience of what happens when a weak or incapacitated manager keeps dead weight in the group. Not only does the dead weight drain the resources but people see him get cut slack constantly and lose their motivation.

In the long run, festering dead weight can cause the failure of the entire group. This isn't even about the working man vs the bourgeois. This is just at the small scale of 3-6 peers working together to accomplish something.
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If you, and everyone else truly believe in that dead weight theory, you all better get in good shape for Logans Run, seriously start running now.


GoingBackToCali_sl said:
yadda yadda.... but somehow he managed to obtain an Apprentice 4 qualification (no fucking clue how), and we were forced to pay him according to that scale.

....
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Now imagine someone paying your outragous supervisor bills, since you somehow managed to aquire a collge degree but dont show the soft skills to qualify for a supervising yet leading position at least outside a white collar job. Again imagine you paid 5 figure epecting to work with Bob Wheeler but instead are stuck with GoingBackToCali.
Tables turned? No?
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

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GoingBackToCali_sl said:
I think I wouldn't have blown over if I was allowed to pay him less due to his inferior skills, but somehow he managed to obtain an Apprentice 4 qualification (no fucking clue how), and we were forced to pay him according to that scale.
.
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In a world where CEOs receive 8 figure severance packages despite running the company even deeper into the hole, I have a very hard time getting upset about people obtaining small amounts of money they didn't "deserve".

Why does this bother you so much?
 
Alex

Alex

Still a Music Elitist
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Dyvim_sl said:
If you, and everyone else truly believe in that dead weight theory, you all better get in good shape for Logans Run, seriously start running now.
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Hyperbole much? This kind of false equivalence makes it impossible to take you seriously.
 
Dyvim

Dyvim

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Alex_sl said:
Hyperbole much? This kind of false equivalence makes it impossible to take you seriously.
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Well i think everyone will be dead weight at some point, some at 30, some at 60 and some are born to be cared for, for life.
Society consists of more than carry your own weight or gtfo and gl in the wilderness. Or why do you think we developed and still do ceremonial burial, when just throwing the corpse outside the city wall to the wolfes would do the job as well?

And for the record: I work with a guy(s) that basically mark all boxes as checked on your dead weight paper. Drunkard with lousy work attitude and piles up the actual work and fixing/cleaning of work for the shift after 'em. Still complaining wouldnt change anything since the owners will never fire their ass (which they are fully aware of) so everyone is just *shrug* and deal with it attitude. Guess to most of us its like we can get the job done beside someone sleeping at the wheel making us all the more important to the company and dont have to give to charity at x-mas cause we kinda do whole year with that.
 
Izo

Izo

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Dyvim_sl said:
Well i think everyone will be dead weight at some point, some at 30, some at 60 and some are born to be cared for, for life.
Society consists of more than carry your own weight or gtfo and gl in the wilderness. Or why do you think we developed and still do ceremonial burial, when just throwing the corpse outside the city wall to the wolfes would do the job as well?

And for the record: I work with a guy(s) that basically mark all boxes as checked on your dead weight paper. Drunkard with lousy work attitude and piles up the actual work and fixing/cleaning of work for the shift after 'em. Still complaining wouldnt change anything since the owners will never fire their ass (which they are fully aware of) so everyone is just *shrug* and deal with it attitude. Guess to most of us its like we can get the job done beside someone sleeping at the wheel making us all the more important to the company and dont have to give to charity at x-mas cause we kinda do whole year with that.
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Well said, Dyvim

What do you think, Tubro? Are you still in the 'It's the managers job to....hire/fire people'-camp? What happens when you turn 50 and some other guy can program or grasp complex IT / engineering stuff faster and better than you? Why is there no room for those who needs supervision or work slower than others? I'd have no nurses if each and every one of them were required to have a firm grasp of, say, tracheotomies and deep mucus suction. To me, the manager role is making best use of your resources. Perhaps I'm spoiled in that our workforce is actually capable and educated when they are hired - and credentials are checked. I donno how it works in the states - here, education, certifications and credentials mean something. Also in the construction business.
 
Alex

Alex

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Why would some people be dead weight at 30? Maybe if you're an athlete and youth/physical fitness is really important. That's not a thing in the vast majority of professions.

Edited response to Izo's post: Just because you're 50 and in a cushy position doesn't mean you're allowed to stop learning new shit. Gotta stay with the times and keep updated. And saying "I'd have no nurses if..." takes the discussion far beyond dead weight. That's just unrealistic or unreachable expectations.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Izo_sl said:
I donno how it works in the states - here, education, certifications and credentials mean something. Also in the construction business.
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You are forgetting EXPERIENCE. That matters way more than certs and education for the majority of technical, industrial, engineering, construction jobs out there. You would be a fool to discount a persons on job experience in lieu of someone with no experience and a certification or some school.
 
Izo

Izo

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Alex_sl said:
Why would some people be dead weight at 30? Maybe if you're an athlete and youth/physical fitness is really important. That's not a thing in the vast majority of professions.

Edited response to Izo's post: Just because you're 50 and in a cushy position doesn't mean you're allowed to stop learning new shit. Gotta stay with the times and keep updated. And saying "I'd have no nurses if..." takes the discussion far beyond dead weight. That's just unrealistic or unreachable expectations.
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My profession required me to learn new stuff and stay on top of the newest treatments and guidelines till the day I die. That doesn't mean I will be competitive with a young up n comer. Physiology and aging takes it toll. In your world I'd be dead weight at 50. Fuck you?
 
Alex

Alex

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Dead weight at 50? You'd be physically unable to perform at 50 and all the young guns with zero experience would be better than you? Christ, dude. Gain some fucking self esteem.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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LOL, the dentist my wife works with is 70 and awesome with a thriving practice. He has a second remote office that he has 2 dentists straight out of college, and he is constantly sent patients with procedures that they cannot do, namely extractions.

You cannot say that experience is not valuable in the medical field either. Take a surgeon for example. Logic would dictate that a surgeon doing surgery for the past 20 yrs would be way more effective and valuable than the noob out of college. While technology and new methods do arise, the human body is still a human body. I would definitely trust an older more experienced surgeon rather than a new one working on me.
 
Izo

Izo

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While I agree in principle, I'll be old at some point, I'd rather have my prostate reduced by a younger surgeon skilled with the laser, than an older who swears by the TUR-P. The complications and risks are not as problematic with the laser.
 
Dyvim

Dyvim

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I picked 30 cause Logans run btw...

In other news theres a whole lot of accidents/situations that could happen to any hard worker no matter the age, which could throw him off and reduce him to a dead weight talented artist in your soon to be constructed house. Youd meet this guy first and think hes a retard but infact hes just trying to cope with the loss of his newborn and his suicidal wife at home and you will never know cause someone just labeled him as retarded & dead weight.
 
Erronius

Erronius

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Thing is, there is room for both skilled, younger employees and older employees with decades of experience. Especially in construction. You aren't really going to see the old 70yo guy bending conduit for example, you'll probably have some younger guys who have the knack for it and are pretty fast do that. The 70yo guy with 50 years of experience is going to be watching over everything and looking for issues like the younger guys making a mistake that he's seen done a number of times. Or he'll be coordinating with the other trades, or spending his day at a print table going over blueprints to make sure everything is being done correctly, or he'll possibly be the one "laying out" everything and telling the younger guys exactly what needs to be done.

There is also an expectation for the older guys to mentor the younger guys to some degree, though you can get journeymen who think that they know everything. Personally I always enjoyed having the older guys with decades of experience around because when you'd run into something obscure you can ask them and 99% of the time they know exactly what is going on.

Another outlet for older guys in my trade is as service electricians. It doesn't matter how "good" a young guy is, there is no way that they will have managed to soak up the knowledge that a guy who has been in the trade for 30-50 years has, and sending a younger guy out on a service call is something of a risk. For example, I've never worked on a corner grounded "B" phase system before (not a high leg delta!); it's an old type of system common to steel plants and the like (especially some with heavy motor loads) and few employers would be willing to send me out to work on that system on a service call. Same with DC motors (a dying breed), a lot of places are replacing them over time with AC motors and VFDs. At some point only the truly old salts will have worked on a lot of these things and their knowledge will be worth some serious cash and the companies employing them will be able to bid on jobs that other companies might not be able or willing to bid on.

I went back to school because I had hit a glass cieling on knowledge and it would have possibly taken me an additional 10-20 years of OJT to break into the service end of my trade. I kept getting recycled back into 'new work' construction and that happens to a lot of guys.

There's a retired guy that teaches at my school and IIRC he started out as an electrician sometime after WW2. The guy has to be 80 years old but he's forgotten more knowledge than most people will ever learn. He could go out right now and get work if he wanted to, as there is still so much "old" equipment in service that most people have never seen outside of books. He just doesn't want to work in the field anymore but I bet you he could pull down a 6 figure salary somewhere if he was willing to travel.
 
C

Chesire_sl

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Google robots will turn 50 % of the current working class into cardboard box dwellers in a decade. Then more google robots will clean up the useless eater problem with weapons )
 
Aaron

Aaron

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I have to agree with many posting here in that it seems that the guy was not right for the job, and that you wereprobablyin the right to fire him. That said, you have some serious fucking issues. At no time in my book is it reasonable to belittle and humiliate your employees in the way that you did. That said, you don't need to kiss his ass either. There are proper ways to get your message across without using name-calling and such.

If you want to become the type of person no-one likes, and more importantly, no-one respects, then keep it up. If you want try and become a decent human being (and are aiming to have staff under you in the future) then you need to get yourself into an anger management program to learn how to tackle shit at your job without you losing your shit, and take some sort of basic HR course to learn how to get your message across without sounding like a fucking retard yourself.

A good boss is the type of person who always keeps his cool, especially when the shit hits the fan, knows when to promote or demote (or fire) an employee, and (more importantly) how to do it, and has the trust of the competent workers. You don't seem to have any of that ...yet.
 
cabbitcabbit

cabbitcabbit

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I've fired a couple nice folk over the years. Musicians, single fathers, college students. People just trying to get by. Problem is that I don't care on the job about what led them to work here. I myself have a duty to my superiors to provide A: A profitable business and B:A safe and sane workplace for all other 49 of my employees. If you can't keep up on the job that we hired you for I really can't help you.



There's a good line in that "Nice guy? I don't give a shit. Good father? Fuck you. Go home and play with your kids"
 
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