Investing General Discussion

Kithani · Dec 19, 2023

Gravel said:
This actually brings up a good point about long term investing.

A lot of people mistakingly will try to save more of a percentile of their income. Which, I mean, that's definitely good to do. My wife and I absolutely utilized that in our savings strategy. But much more important than that would be trying to maximize your income. It will have a significantly larger impact on your overall portfolio, especially if it happens in the earlier stages of your career (even if later your income stagnates).

I don't know if that really applies to anyone on FoH since most people here are at least mid to late-career in their 40s and 50s. But maybe advice for the kids.

Some of us aren’t even 35 yet Gramps

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

What's this red shit with the futures?

Furry · Dec 20, 2023

Had all the money to blow up my roth jan 1st neatly stacked up and ready to go like I usually do year end. One pet emergency later and most that money is gone. Looks like I'll be needing to crank out some OT to grind it out by feb.

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

Furry said:
Had all the money to blow up my roth jan 1st neatly stacked up and ready to go like I usually do year end. One pet emergency later and most that money is gone. Looks like I'll be needing to crank out some OT to grind it out by feb.

The pet ok?

Furry · Dec 20, 2023

Sanrith Descartes said:
The pet ok?

So far, but too early to know for sure cause the biggest risk is infection in the first week or so after surgery.

fris · Dec 20, 2023

I forget which one of you said it, but it was something like "I'll never see those kinds of numbers (% gains). if I do, that means I'm being too risky and I could just as easily have a same % downturn. I'm going after consistent growth so I can maintain my lifestyle". When I hear friends or acquaintances talk about some big trade, i know they're not sharing the losses too.

I don't want to see raw #s cause I think that brings in trolls and scares off low or new investors. i get why it matters, but it's not necessary for me to correctly weigh the feedback from individuals and the collective here.

Furry · Dec 20, 2023

fris said:
I forget which one of you said it, but it was something like "I'll never see those kinds of numbers (% gains). if I do, that means I'm being too risky and I could just as easily have a same % downturn. I'm going after consistent growth so I can maintain my lifestyle". When I hear friends or acquaintances talk about some big trade, i know they're not sharing the losses too.

I don't want to see raw #s cause I think that brings in trolls and scares off low or new investors. i get why it matters, but it's not necessary for me to correctly weigh the feedback from individuals and the collective here.

S&P is not risky, and sometimes you get big gains. I mean it's up 25% this year, which is pretty darn good.

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

Sold off my UNP shares. Small trade that I have made 3 or 4 times in the last year or two. UNP trades in a pretty predictable range (just under $200 to about $250), so I view it as a safe hold for 15-20% return. These shares I bought in Oct. at $199 and sold at $241. 21% gain for about 10 weeks of hold. When it circles back to under $200 I will probably jump back in.

edit: im going to make a conscious effort to be more specific on my trade info going forward.

Bought on 10/5 at $199.99
Grabbed a dividend
Sold on 12/20 at $241
Position was less than 1% of my total portfolio

Hateyou · Dec 20, 2023

Blazin said:
It's only directed at you to the extent you are most active and that I know you hold the belief that % is an equalizer. I don't believe it is. Our emotions change based on the weight of the trade. You have an income to back you up, Sanrith's world is not going to be at risk if he doesn't make 5% on apple. This thinking implies that the greatest obstacle to wealth creation is the "choosing" and I strongly disagree and the evidence backs me up. Vanguard released a study a few years back, it's investors are not stock pickers they overwhelmingly hold broad based diversified index based portfolios but yet they dramatically underperformed the asset classes they are invested in. This is because THEY are the obstacle, their actions of portfolio management sabotage it.

White collar guys making a good living and with assets play with their $100k portfolio's all while they earn the value of their portfolio or more every year. They are absolutely not playing the same game and they still manage to fuck it up.

Another point, this takes time we don't get paid in percent that's crazy talk. If I spend 400hrs a year doing something and come out of it saying I made 12%! Then follow that up with well that 12% was $6,000 then I did nothing more impressive than get an entry lvl labor job the percent is completely irrelevant.

Someone could dedicate tons of time to study and improvement, even in this very thread but if their portfolio is small compared to their earning potential then the correct advice is to log off this thread and go make some freaking money or adjust spending. It's far easier to stop buying $7 latte's than it is to suck a little more alpha out of investing. The size of what we are doing not only matters it's literally the only thing.

Percent returns is about ego protecting imo and I really don't mean that as a slight just because I may have a larger portfolio I'd say the exact same thing to someone who had a portfolio 3x mine. Like I said early at some portfolio size your view on percent returns would be correct but in practical laymen terms at our wealth level it isnt. Now as you mention % of portfolio size is not the same thing and not what I'm talking about. That would largely be an applicable comparison even at small portfolio sizes and is relevant. It's probably the happy medium between the two positions. "Bot SPY @390 40% of port" as an example.

You aren’t taking into account the time someone has been trading and how much their salary is and how much their bills/family support are and what % goes into a 401k/roth.

If someone makes $100k a year and they’re “playing” with $100k…that’s quite a bit of time and money for them. After taxes, mortgage, car payments, food, 401k, etc someone making $100k and supporting a family is realistically probably only able to put 10k a year or less into a brokerage.

So yes, them “risking” small amounts (to you) is a large amount to them. If they risk 33% of their $100k…that’s a huge fucking loss to them because it’s going to take years for them to rebuild it.

It’s ridiculous to whine about people only showing %s because you’re stating that you’re just going to have disdain for someone anyways if they were to say “I risked $10k on this trade.” To you it’s nothing but to them it’s huge. How many people here are realistically going to be able to have 6-7 figure risks? I doubt it’s even 10 people. You have great insight and knowledge sharing and it’s much appreciated but I don’t see any reason people need to try to measure their $ dick with you.

Lightning Lord Rule · Dec 20, 2023

Hateyou said:
You aren’t taking into account the time someone has been trading and how much their salary is and how much their bills/family support are and what % goes into a 401k/roth.

If someone makes $100k a year and they’re “playing” with $100k…that’s quite a bit of time and money for them. After taxes, mortgage, car payments, food, 401k, etc someone making $100k and supporting a family is realistically probably only able to put 10k a year or less into a brokerage.

So yes, them “risking” small amounts (to you) is a large amount to them. If they risk 33% of their $100k…that’s a huge fucking loss to them because it’s going to take years for them to rebuild it.

It’s ridiculous to whine about people only showing %s because you’re stating that you’re just going to have disdain for someone anyways if they were to say “I risked $10k on this trade.” To you it’s nothing but to them it’s huge. How many people here are realistically going to be able to have 6-7 figure risks? I doubt it’s even 10 people. You have great insight and knowledge sharing and it’s much appreciated but I don’t see any reason people need to try to measure their $ dick with you.

Bro, did you even read his post? He mentioned everything you posted and specifically said it's not for dickwaving, but for better analysis.

Don't post $ amounts if you like, but at least try to comprehend that there are good reasons to post such numbers outside of e-peen.

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

Hateyou said:
You aren’t taking into account the time someone has been trading and how much their salary is and how much their bills/family support are and what % goes into a 401k/roth.

If someone makes $100k a year and they’re “playing” with $100k…that’s quite a bit of time and money for them. After taxes, mortgage, car payments, food, 401k, etc someone making $100k and supporting a family is realistically probably only able to put 10k a year or less into a brokerage.

So yes, them “risking” small amounts (to you) is a large amount to them. If they risk 33% of their $100k…that’s a huge fucking loss to them because it’s going to take years for them to rebuild it.

It’s ridiculous to whine about people only showing %s because you’re stating that you’re just going to have disdain for someone anyways if they were to say “I risked $10k on this trade.” To you it’s nothing but to them it’s huge. How many people here are realistically going to be able to have 6-7 figure risks? I doubt it’s even 10 people. You have great insight and knowledge sharing and it’s much appreciated but I don’t see any reason people need to try to measure their $ dick with you.

I didnt see it this way at all. His points are valid, and if we were all part of a Saturday night investing club at one of our houses I would agree 100% with his take. My main issue is $$ amounts can possibly have a deleterious effect on newer/smaller investors and also of course open us up to clown shows of faked statements, "lol, poors" posts etc. Not that shit like that would ever happen here on FOH

Lightning Lord Rule · Dec 20, 2023

Ya, the doxxing/privacy issue is the big one IMO. This is an open to the internet part of the forum, so people still need to be careful about revealing personal info.

I thought about making this section 'opt-in' the same as the Gun Club and Pol for more privacy, but I was hoping to have this section as something I could point to as a relatively wholesome part of the forum for new people to get in to. Especially as investing is a thing that starts to apply to people at the same phase of life that most of us are.

Except for that fucking Zoomer

Kithani !

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

Lightning Lord Rule said:
Ya, the doxxing/privacy issue is the big one IMO. This is an open to the internet part of the forum, so people still need to be careful about revealing personal info.

I thought about making this section 'opt-in' the same as the Gun Club and Pol for more privacy, but I was hoping to have this section as something I could point to as a relatively wholesome part of the forum for new people to get in to. Especially as investing is a thing that starts to apply to people at the same phase of life that most of us are.

Except for that fucking Zoomer Kithani !

I was actually thinking about a private members only thread for people who want to discuss trades in the Full Monty. Not sure though if it would end up drawing traffic away from this thread.

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

MP back over $19.

Blazin · Dec 20, 2023

Hateyou said:
You aren’t taking into account the time someone has been trading and how much their salary is and how much their bills/family support are and what % goes into a 401k/roth.

If someone makes $100k a year and they’re “playing” with $100k…that’s quite a bit of time and money for them. After taxes, mortgage, car payments, food, 401k, etc someone making $100k and supporting a family is realistically probably only able to put 10k a year or less into a brokerage.

So yes, them “risking” small amounts (to you) is a large amount to them. If they risk 33% of their $100k…that’s a huge fucking loss to them because it’s going to take years for them to rebuild it.

It’s ridiculous to whine about people only showing %s because you’re stating that you’re just going to have disdain for someone anyways if they were to say “I risked $10k on this trade.” To you it’s nothing but to them it’s huge. How many people here are realistically going to be able to have 6-7 figure risks? I doubt it’s even 10 people. You have great insight and knowledge sharing and it’s much appreciated but I don’t see any reason people need to try to measure their $ dick with you.

k, thanks for adding to the conversation

Furry · Dec 20, 2023

Lightning Lord Rule said:
Ya, the doxxing/privacy issue is the big one IMO. This is an open to the internet part of the forum, so people still need to be careful about revealing personal info.

I thought about making this section 'opt-in' the same as the Gun Club and Pol for more privacy, but I was hoping to have this section as something I could point to as a relatively wholesome part of the forum for new people to get in to.

I don't know why this section should be private. At a certain point its on people not to dox themselves. There's so many bazillion trades everyday in all money values, that you'd need to get awfully specific to dox yourself posting trades. I'd say that what's posted here is generally pretty darn far from doxable, and people wouldn't keep coming back if they didn't find it helpful.

Sometimes even if you already know something is true, it's good to hear someone say it again, especially when it comes to money.

Captain Suave · Dec 20, 2023

I don't think the trades themselves would be information that would help doxxing, rather that they could be incentive for singling someone out. This already happened a couple weeks ago in the housing thread, admittedly as a PSA to discourage people from posting pictures of their houses.

Obviously if you're unbothered by the specter of Internet weirdos there's nothing to stop anyone from posting dollars now.

I don't think I'd put any more information out there if the forum were private, so I think we're basically fine as is.

Hateyou · Dec 20, 2023

Lightning Lord Rule said:
Bro, did you even read his post? He mentioned everything you posted and specifically said it's not for dickwaving, but for better analysis.

Don't post $ amounts if you like, but at least try to comprehend that there are good reasons to post such numbers outside of e-peen.

Yeah I read it and just don’t really agree with it. Whether you post “I put $100k in this trade” versus “I put 10% of my portfolio in this trade” doesn’t make a difference to me.

My main point is talking down to people who only post a % because they know their $1000 trade doesn’t mean shit is a pointless action. He said “Nobody cares about making x% that doesn't mean shit” which would mean new traders or people that don’t have a big portfolio just shouldn’t post here which I think would suck. If someone only has $20k and they make 50% somehow I’d love to hear about it, I’m sure it meant shit to them.

Hateyou · Dec 20, 2023

Captain Suave said:
I don't think the trades themselves would be information that would help doxxing, rather that they could be incentive for singling someone out. This already happened a couple weeks ago in the housing thread, admittedly as a PSA to discourage people from posting pictures of their houses.

Obviously if you're unbothered by the specter of Internet weirdos there's nothing to stop anyone from posting dollars now.

I don't think I'd put any more information out there if the forum were private, so I think we're basically fine as is.

Sanrith Descartes has accidentally posted his account numbers multiple times while showing his individual trades. I am just waiting for his account balance to get a little higher before hacking it and moving it into my bank account.

Sanrith Descartes · Dec 20, 2023

Captain Suave said:
I don't think the trades themselves would be information that would help doxxing, rather that they could be incentive for singling someone out. This already happened a couple weeks ago in the housing thread, admittedly as a PSA to discourage people from posting pictures of their houses.

Obviously if you're unbothered by the specter of Internet weirdos there's nothing to stop anyone from posting dollars now.

I don't think I'd put any more information out there if the forum were private, so I think we're basically fine as is.

Full disclosure: I once posted a screenshot with one of invest account numbers on it. Yes, I am stupid.

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