Justice for Zimmerman

Xevy · Jul 21, 2013

Culture differences are much bigger than race differences. Color of some one's skin may increase the likelihood they belong to a certain culture due to socioeconomic issues, but anyone with a brain knows it's not black = bad. Unfortunately I personally don't think highly of the guns/weed/"trying to be a hardass" culture that Trayvon was most likely apart of as many kids are nowadays. I don't think I necessarily care for the 'oh god I'm going to be wronged! I need a gun b/c of reasons!' culture GZ might be part of either.

If I saw a black person walking down the street in cargo shorts and a Zelda t-shirt I would feel more in line with that guy than the white person walking down the street with baggy pants with a ripped up wife beater and tattoos all over their neck.

Not that we should judge anyone based on appearances....but sometimes, you really should.

Science.

Chukzombi · Jul 21, 2013

It will interesting if they try to charge zim with a trumped up hate crime charge then have that tossed out. Is stevie wonder going to boycott the US after that?

BoldW · Jul 21, 2013

Maester Chuk_sl said:
It will interesting if they try to charge zim with a trumped up hate crime charge then have that tossed out. Is stevie wonder going to boycott the US after that?

Can't be too hard on Stevie. He actually couldn't watch the trial.

Gavinmad · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
So you think a case that had nothing to do with race and being turned into a race-based story by horrible media disinformation is sparking useful discussion? No. Certainly not on the national level.

Also, your signature is fucking stupid. You have no idea if Zimmerman would have suffered more injuries if he didn't have a gun, as we have discussed at length in this thread. You should be better than obvious trolling. Stop trying to replace Numbers please, I usually enjoy your posts.

If Tanoomba is going to be childish, I guess I can stoop to the level.

Lleauaric · Jul 21, 2013

Tuco_sl said:
Only reason I care about this trial now is the number of people acting on their misinformation and how poorly the media is handling it. I can't think of an instance where the facts brought out by the case are so ignored in a big story. Almost no one I've talked to that is neutral or even remotely pro-Trayvon knows that he doubled back and attacked GZ.

I think, to pro Trayvonn people, that's because the story begins and ends with gz deciding to follow tm. That's the frame of reference. Empathy is powerful thing, and once someone is able to see themselves in the place or the shoes of another person, and then identifies with them, it's hard for any amount of facts or data to change that. If you start a conversation with "fuck you", most people stop listening after that.

I just think people need to stop being in such a hurry to be offended and instead make an effort to get where the other person is coming from.

And because its important to be dick-ish when posting on the interwebz....

I'm just waiting for when the NRA releases a statement saying "if only tm was armed, he would be alive today"

Tanoomba · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
So you think a case that had nothing to do with race and being turned into a race-based story by horrible media disinformation is sparking useful discussion? No. Certainly not on the national level.

Also, your signature is fucking stupid. You have no idea if Zimmerman would have suffered more injuries if he didn't have a gun, as we have discussed at length in this thread. You should be better than obvious trolling. Stop trying to replace Numbers please, I usually enjoy your posts.

I'm saying that trying to turn this shitty situation into a valid discussion is the most productive way to handle it. You can't just tell everyone "You've been suckered! The media are lying, manipulative scumbags!" Although it's true, people are not willing to hear that. Trying to ram it down their throats will do more harm than good. As wrong as the majority of people are about this case, they're not wrong about racism being a serious issue that affects a large portion of the American population each day. You wanna talk about racism? Fine, let's talk about racism. Maturely and reasonably, and from all sides. Let's figure out what the problem is and see if there's anything that can be done to help fix it. What's wrong with that?

As for my sig, I actually do have a pretty good idea that Zimmerman would not have suffered life-threatening injuries, because that's what the evidence suggests. I'm not saying it's a given, in fact the whole point is that neither outcome is a given. A statement like the one quoted is making a false assumption with no evidence to back it up. That's it. No trolling here.

khalid · Jul 21, 2013

Lleauaric_sl said:
I think, to pro Trayvonn people, that's because the story begins and ends with gz deciding to follow tm. That's the frame of reference. Empathy is powerful thing, and once someone is able to see themselves in the place or the shoes of another person, and then identifies with them, it's hard for any amount of facts or data to change that. If you start a conversation with "fuck you", most people stop listening after that.

The reason that for most pro-Trayvon people, it begins and ends with GZ following TM, is because that is how the media has portrayed it. This isn't a case of empathy making people side with Trayvon. It is because the media set up a narrative of...

1) Man stalking young innocent child
2) Killing him without provocation.

If that is all that you are given, OF COURSE you would side with Trayvon, even if race was completely taken out of the equation. That isn't the fault of empathy though, its the fault of complete misinformation from every news source outside of Fox news (jesus, never would have guessed I would ever say that).

khalid · Jul 21, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
As for my sig, I actually do have a pretty good idea that Zimmerman would not have suffered life-threatening injuries, because that's what the evidence suggests. I'm not saying it's a given, in fact the whole point is that neither outcome is a given. A statement like the one quoted is making a false assumption with no evidence to back it up. That's it. No trolling here.

Actually, if Zimmerman was under no threat of life-threatening injuries or grievous bodily harm, he should have been convicted. Since you agree he shouldn't have been, your very own opinion contradicts with your signature. So yeah, trolling.

Lleauaric · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
The reason that for most pro-Trayvon people, it begins and ends with GZ following TM, is because that is how the media has portrayed it. This isn't a case of empathy making people side with Trayvon. It is because the media set up a narrative of...

1) Man stalking young innocent child
2) Killing him without provocation.

If that is all that you are given, OF COURSE you would side with Trayvon, even if race was completely taken out of the equation. That isn't the fault of empathy though, its the fault of complete misinformation from every news source outside of Fox news (jesus, never would have guessed I would ever say that).

This case, as it turns out, was to many people never about this case

Tanoomba · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Actually, if Zimmerman was under no threat of life-threatening injuries or grievous bodily harm, he should have been convicted. Since you agree he shouldn't have been, your very own opinion contradicts with your signature. So yeah, trolling.

He had his head hit. He was pinned. Legally, he had the right to consider his life in danger, regardless of whether or not his life was in danger. The evidence suggests that his life was not actually in danger (nor was he in danger of serious injury), but that doesn't change the fact that he was legally allowed to consider that a possibility under the circumstances. Not trolling, man. (Still besides the point, which is we shouldn't make assumptions either way.)

khalid · Jul 21, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
As wrong as the majority of people are about this case, they're not wrong about racism being a serious issue that affects a large portion of the American population each day. You wanna talk about racism? Fine, let's talk about racism. Maturely and reasonably, and from all sides. Let's figure out what the problem is and see if there's anything that can be done to help fix it. What's wrong with that?

Sure, racism is a serious issue. However, you cannot have a rational discussion on a topic if it is completely based around misinformation. That is why the argument that the president was just trying to start a discussion falls flat on its face. How can we have a discussion about issues like gang violence, "driving while black" and other real problems when we have the media blasting misinformation and making it sound like the #1 problem is white racists gunning down blacks in the streets?

The real thing that this should spark a discussion on is the media, because that is what it is about.

Gavinmad · Jul 21, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
He had his head hit. He was pinned. Legally, he had the right to consider his life in danger, regardless of whether or not his life was in danger. The evidence suggests that his life was not actually in danger (nor was he in danger of serious injury), but that doesn't change the fact that he was legally allowed to consider that a possibility under the circumstances. Not trolling, man. (Still besides the point, which is we shouldn't make assumptions either way.)

Pretty sure we've been over this territory, but if someone has you pinned and is punching you in the head, you are in danger of serious injury and/or death. That's why MMA refs practically tackle the winning fighter off the other one when they call a KO/TKO end to a fight. Try pulling your head out of your ass.

Chukzombi · Jul 21, 2013

The media as well as this president is still pushing that SYG got zimzam off on a technicality.

Lleauaric · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
Sure, racism is a serious issue. However, you cannot have a rational discussion on a topic if it is completely based around misinformation. That is why the argument that the president was just trying to start a discussion falls flat on its face. How can we have a discussion about issues like gang violence, "driving while black" and other real problems when we have the media blasting misinformation and making it sound like the #1 problem is white racists gunning down blacks in the streets?

The real thing that this should spark a discussion on is the media, because that is what it is about.

Don't blame the media.. The media sucks. It just gives people what they want. American news no longer informs, it caters. It exists not to give information but to sell shit.

khalid · Jul 21, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
Not trolling, man. (Still besides the point, which is we shouldn't make assumptions either way.)

So Zimmerman believed his life was threatened. Yet you think it is completely ignorant for people to think the same thing, even given the ME testimony going on at length about how serious head injuries are if they continue? Whatever.

fanaskin · Jul 21, 2013

Lleauaric_sl said:
Don't blame the media.. The media sucks. It just gives people what they want. American news no longer informs, it caters. It exists not to give information but to sell shit.

No I blame the media, Especially mass media, these people are educated elites and they have a civic duty as the 4th estate, they have a moral and civic duty.

khalid · Jul 21, 2013

Lleauaric_sl said:
Don't blame the media.. The media sucks.

It is probably a good idea not to contradict yourself 6 words into your own post.

If media no longer informs, then it isn't a media any longer. So yeah, Ill blame them for this completely contrived scandal.

Lleauaric · Jul 21, 2013

Maester Chuk_sl said:
The media as well as this president is still pushing that SYG got zimzam off on a technicality.

When did the president say this? Pretty sure I remember him saying that SYG wasn't used in the court in his speech.

Tuco · Jul 21, 2013

Lleauaric_sl said:
I think, to pro Trayvonn people, that's because the story begins and ends with gz deciding to follow tm. That's the frame of reference. Empathy is powerful thing, and once someone is able to see themselves in the place or the shoes of another person, and then identifies with them, it's hard for any amount of facts or data to change that.

I agree with the sentiment, but there are a lot of very reasonable pro-Trayvon people out there that would quickly change their mind if they learned the facts. There are also a lot of pro-trayvon people who know the facts and, like you say, feel that the story begins and ends with GZ following TM.

Lleauaric · Jul 21, 2013

khalid_sl said:
It is probably a good idea not to contradict yourself 6 words into your own post.

If media no longer informs, then it isn't a media any longer. So yeah, Ill blame them for this completely contrived scandal.

If you give information tailored to sell to a certain demographic, it's info-tainment. We have the media we deserve because we buy this shit.

Justice for Zimmerman

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