Justice for Zimmerman

Yeah American media, at least, is still obsessed with the Royal Family because DIANA!

Its gotten worse since most of the Kennedys are dead here.

Lleauaric_sl said:

1. I dont know the type of wounds TM had. How far away was GZ? Was it in the midst of a struggle?

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How do you still not know this after being in this thread this long?

Martin's injuries, beyond the gun shot, were basically non existant. He had some knuckle damage on one hand. How far away was George Zimmerman when? When the assault happened? Well he was at one end of what looks like a walkway that goes at least a block's distance, if not a bit further, and Martin was at the other, then Martin moved back and assaulted him. How far away was Zimmerman when the shooting occurred? Inches, he was under Martin, which also answers your question of "was the shooting in the midst of a struggle" How far was Zimmerman when he was "following" Martin? At least two dozen yards, because Martin had enough time once he got around the townhomes to get out of sight completely.

Eomer_sl said:

Ah, shit, forgot to provide the link. I had it up in another tab and everything!

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crim...ecdjan2012.pdf

For a debunking of that graph you posted:http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com...t-than-the-us/

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The problem with the second link is that it also debunks a lot of nonsense about US gun ownership, like that we have the highest rates of gun ownership in the world, and it also asserts what I already pointed out: The reason why the differences aren't as stark as one could make them by simply displaying the numbers of violent crimes from one nation to the other is that they simply record these events differently. So a direct 1 to 1 comparison isn't fair.

The US does have a higher murder rate, overall, but we have a large number of large population centers with a degree of diversity and poverty that England generally doesn't experience, which contributes mightily to it. Gangs and the drug wars and the ILLEGAL guns used in those crimes have little relation to US gun laws or the ability of a law abiding citizen to acquire a firearm legally in the United States, which is the claim from Ossoi and generally the anti gun Brits.

George Zimmerman, who has been in hiding since he was acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, emerged to help rescue a family who was trapped in an overturned vehicle, police said today.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...ry?id=19735432

Eomer_sl said:

Again, I'm not interested in getting in to the gun control debate. You're an asshole for posting a graph you knew to be bullshit.

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I didn't know it was bullshit till after the fact, actually.

Sorry I'm not aware that England has the most lax and broadest definitions for violent crime on planet Earth, though. I mean that's clearly something I should be aware of right off the bat, what with my doctorate in English law...

added:

I went back and looked, if you would take the time to do so as well, you'd see that the image I linked, while using some of the same information, is different from the image which is debunked by the Politifact article. If you look, you'll see that, in fact, my image is correct, because it never makes a direct 1 to 1 comparison between UK and US crime rates, rather it compares UK crime rates to other European nations. The graphic that the Politifact article attempts to debunk is not the same article, while using some of the same information, it asserts a conclusion that includes a direct 1 to 1 comparison between the United Kingdom and the US that my graphic, nor my argument, ever made in relation to the 2000 victims per 100k value. The actual values in question are also not under debate, meaning that the actual crime rate for violent crimes in England, according to English and EU sources, is, in fact, 2000 victims per 100k citizens. The issue is the methodology, and whether 1 to 1 comparisons with US crime rates are valid or not, which they aren't.

Luckily, I never made 1 to 1 comparisons between the two. I merely said that the UK has a higher crime rate that the US, and cited that graphic as evidence for the fact, and asked the other poster to provide citations and data which showed that the UK crime rate for violent crimes is, in fact, lower than the US', by whatever metric or methodology he chose.

So to debunk that graphic, you would need to show that UK violent crime rates, once adjusted to match US methodology, are lower than US violent crime rates. Unfortunately, the very article you cited, which Fanaskin also cites from later, actually shows that even once adjusted, UK violent crime rates are nearly double the US violent crime rates per capita.

So my graphic....isn't bullshit. In fact it never was. What is bullshit, though, is citing a politifact page debunking a different graphic as rebuttal to my graphic, which so far has proven to be both accurate, and validly cited, on it, and then calling me an asshole because you were too lazy to actually look and see if the two graphics being referenced by the Politifact article were the same or not.

Sorry for the late edit but I didn't feel like a bump to the thread was worth this post.