Justice for Zimmerman

Cad · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
Picked a fight for nothing, are you MENTAL? A 17 year old kid was being followed/stalked by an Adult who was armed, that's hardly nothing, jesus.

Following is illegal? Following is threatening? Nobody but GZ knew that he was armed. And he was armed legally. So you're telling me that if I just go randomly follow someone around on the street, they might suddenly turn back and attack me, and thats okay?

You guys have some kooky ideas over there.

Ossoi_sl said:
In my opinion if GZ was able to reach for his gun and point it in TM's chest whilst being straddled and attacked, then he could easily have fought TM off without reaching for the gun.

Except he had been obviously been trying to fight him off, and it didn't work.

Ossoi_sl said:
TM might have had a longer reach but GZ on the date of the shooting had a massive weight/strength advantage.. Plus why shoot him in the chest which would evidently be fatal, why not just shoot him in the shoulder or something.

He surely had a massive weight advantage, but strength? TM looked like a pretty strong kid, honestly.

You're acting like he aimed and fired, hitting TM in the heart was probably a lucky shot. In all likelihood, considering the positional and obvious strength/quickness advantage, it was probably pure dumb luck that he got his gun out and was able to fire it before the gun was taken away from him, much less hitting him in a good spot.

Ossoi · Jul 22, 2013

Arbitrary_sl said:
Wait, is there actually a dispute about violent crime rates? Do people think the UK isn't filthy with crime?

Nobody is saying that UK is crime free. What I am saying is that the Zimmerman case would NEVER have happened here because of our sensible laws on gun control and self defence:

a) Zimmerman would not have been permitted to carry a weapon and would have been unable to purchase one legally. No gun = no shooting.

b) UK self defence law = "A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable". Pulling out a gun whilst being physically assaulted by an unarmed aggressor would, imo, be deemed unreasonable by a jury.

fanaskin · Jul 22, 2013

Yeah the assaulter would have won in England, and have a higher probability the assaulter would have murdered him instead of being scared about actual armed policeman and running off that's a great thing to be proud of.

your elderly, your weak, your disabled, and your woman must love not being able to protect themselves.

hodj · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
Nobody is saying that UK is crime free. What I am saying is that the Zimmerman case would NEVER have happened here because of our sensible laws on gun control and self defence:

a) Zimmerman would not have been permitted to carry a weapon and would have been unable to purchase one legally. No gun = no shooting.

b) UK self defence law = "A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable". Pulling out a gun whilst being physically assaulted by an unarmed aggressor would, imo, be deemed unreasonable by a jury.

Bashing someone's head into concrete =/= unarmed.

This was actually covered in the trial.

Also Zimmerman was told by police to buy a gun and carry it since he was leading his neighborhood watch program and there had been a string of robberies in the area since the economic collapse in 2008 destroyed Floridian house values.

Ossoi · Jul 22, 2013

BoldW_sl said:
I imagine it was all he could do to reach his gun

Cad_sl said:
it was probably pure dumb luck

Funny how you guys both attempt to plug in the gaps in exactly the same way, "yeah it was just complete luck that he was able to reach for his gun out the waistband of his pants whilst having his head banged against the sidewalk and aim and pull the trigger!"

If he had enough movement to be able to grab his gun he could surely have attempted to block/parry the blows and throw Trayvon off.

Ossoi · Jul 22, 2013

fanaskin_sl said:
Yeah the thug would have won in england, and probably would have murdered him instead of being scared about actual armed policeman and running off that's a great thing to be proud of.

How do you know TM was trying to kill him...that's a MASSIVE presumption to make

hodj · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
Funny how you guys both attempt to plug in the gaps in exactly the same way, "yeah it was just complete luck that he was able to reach for his gun out the waistband of his pants whilst having his head banged against the sidewalk and aim and pull the trigger!"

If he had enough movement to be able to grab his gun he could surely have attempted to block/parry the blows and throw Trayvon off.

Apparently not since the jury found you to be incorrect and him to be defending his life within the reasonable force allowed by law.

Ossoi_sl said:
How do you know TM was trying to kill him...that's a MASSIVE presumption to make

And now the conversation has returned full circle to retardville.

Okay, so if you're getting your head bashed into concrete, you don't want us to assume the person doing it is trying to severely injure or kill you?

Furry · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
b) UK self defence law = "A defendant is entitled to use reasonable force to protect himself, others for whom he is responsible and his property. It must be reasonable". Pulling out a gun whilst being physically assaulted by an unarmed aggressor would, imo, be deemed unreasonable by a jury.

Thats because your legal system values the criminal over the victim. If zimmerman couldn't carry or defend himself, he had just as much a chance of dying as trayvon had when he decided to attack zimmerman. The difference between american and the UK is in america, the innocent person was protected and in the UK the criminal is protected from being stopped.

Thats why crime in general is much lower in the US than in the UK.

fanaskin · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
Funny how you guys both attempt to plug in the gaps in exactly the same way, "yeah it was just complete luck that he was able to reach for his gun out the waistband of his pants whilst having his head banged against the sidewalk and aim and pull the trigger!"

If he had enough movement to be able to grab his gun he could surely have attempted to block/parry the blows and throw Trayvon off.

say that to an old man, a disabled person, a single mother, or an effiminate fat man(that persons usesless to everyone but just saying)

it wasn't luck it was training and preparation.

Furry · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
How do you know TM was trying to kill him...that's a MASSIVE presumption to make

How do you know zimmerman was trying to kill him...that's a MASSIVE presumption to make

The difference is in america you have the right to ensure your own self defense, not rely on the pity of criminals.

Ossoi · Jul 22, 2013

Cad_sl said:
So you're telling me that if I just go randomly follow someone around on the street, they might suddenly turn back and attack me, and thats okay?

If a lone woman is followed by a lone man, she might assume he wants to rape her.

If a white man is followed by a black man, the white man might assume he is going to get mugged.

If a black youth is followed by an Adult, the black youth might assume he is going to get raped/mugged/kidnapped.

So its ok for GZ to assume that whilst his head is striking the pavement that he might be killed (even though the injuries dont support that). But it's not ok for TM to assume that GZ had nefarious intent.

Here's something that will rock your worlds...in the UK self defence can be used if the defendant genuinely believes he is GOING to be attacked, he can then use reasonable force to defend himself. Slamming someones head is probably not reasonable force but if the incident had purely been TM punching and breaking GZ nose he could have probably used self defence

khalid · Jul 22, 2013

An aggressor dying because the victim ends up being armed is a feature of self-defense with a gun, not a flaw.

hodj · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
So its ok for GZ to assume that whilst his head is striking the pavement that he might be killed (even though the injuries dont support that).

Dr DiMiao's testimony to the court literally 100% refutes this claim.

Tanoomba · Jul 22, 2013

To be fair, if the exact same sequence of events occurred in England (minus the gun), it's likely Zimmerman would have gotten beaten up, Martin would have been caught and charged, nobody would have died, the media would not have had a field day brainwashing the masses, the Prime Minister would have had nothing to say about the event and everyone's life would have been just a little bit better.

Furry · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
Here's something that will rock your worlds...in the UK self defence can be used if the defendant genuinely believes he is GOING to be attacked, he can then use reasonable force to defend himself. Slamming someones head is probably not reasonable force but if the incident had purely been TM punching and breaking GZ nose he could have probably used self defence

You're just flat out wrong. UK has provisions that a victim must display an intent to avoid conflict before they can claim self defense. Trayvon initiated the conflict and did not flee during a good opportunity to do so, especially with no evidence that GZ was following him. The assertion that TM could claim self defense in the UK if he assault GZ is wildly unfounded.

Cad · Jul 22, 2013

Ossoi_sl said:
If a lone woman is followed by a lone man, she might assume he wants to rape her.

If a white man is followed by a black man, the white man might assume he is going to get mugged.

If a black youth is followed by an Adult, the black youth might assume he is going to get raped/mugged/kidnapped.

So its ok for GZ to assume that whilst his head is striking the pavement that he might be killed (even though the injuries dont support that). But it's not ok for TM to assume that GZ had nefarious intent.

Here's something that will rock your worlds...in the UK self defence can be used if the defendant genuinely believes he is GOING to be attacked, he can then use reasonable force to defend himself. Slamming someones head is probably not reasonable force but if the incident had purely been TM punching and breaking GZ nose he could have probably used self defence

How do you prove "nefarious intent" ?

Who the fuck rapes black boys?

Furry · Jul 22, 2013

Tanoomba_sl said:
To be fair, if the exact same sequence of events occurred in England (minus the gun), it's likely Zimmerman would have gotten beaten up, Martin would have been caught and charged, nobody would have died, the media would not have had a field day brainwashing the masses, the Prime Minister would have had nothing to say about the event and everyone's life would have been just a little bit better.

An innocent person could of died. This is a situation I will never accept, and you are an idiot if you believe that is a good outcome. I'm okay with criminals dying, so while not ideal, its a better scenario.

Kedwyn · Jul 22, 2013

Protecting criminals by forcing law abiding citizens to retreat until no further option presents itself is complete bull shit. Don't want to die? Don't attack people like a fucking animal or you just might get shot.

Eomer · Jul 22, 2013

Arbitrary_sl said:
Wait, is there actually a dispute about violent crime rates? Do people think the UK isn't filthy with crime?

I'm not saying that the UK doesn't have crime. However the "statistics" in that image Hodj posted are bullshit. As Hodj himself said, criminologists have great difficulty in comparing violent crime from one country to another, because there's huge differences in what the definition of "violent" crime even is between countries. There's no way in hell that Sweden is 3 times as violent/dangerous as the US.

But please, please don't lump me in with Ossoi otherwise!

fanaskin · Jul 22, 2013

Justice for Zimmerman

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