Justice League (2017)

Sanrith Descartes said:

Good thing about the Legion is they were "diversity" before diversity was all the rage.

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i would just like to see Bizarro and Gorilla Grodd done well in live action before i drop dead.

Chukzombi said:

you cant go big yet, you need to start small like Marvel has. pick a few cool lesser known superheroes. develop them and have them join together in a big film to fight one of Superman's villains, maybe develop the Legion of Doom while at it and each new lesser known superhero can fight a lesser known supervillain and after being defeated they form the LoD to beat them. this isnt rocket science, the other problem with DC is they didnt give anyone a chance to develop a vision or rather hire somebody to guide other directors to follow the vision the studio was going for. it doesnt look like DC has any vision. there is nothing they are working toward other than come see our film. if they want to be succesful like Marvel then they need to develop a long term plan and fucking stick to it.

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They don't even have to follow the Marvel plan, It doesn't matter if all their movies connect. Hell we have one cinematic universe already, do we need another one? Just make good movies, stand alone or as part of a universe. But for the love of all that is holy stop this half and half shit. Some are part of the DCEU and some aren't, its just stupid and confusing, and most of the movies suck tbh. The best thing DC has done is drop that POS Zack Snyder. His movies look awesome visually (sans all the slow mo shit) but story wise they are a rambling incoherent mess.

Sevens said:

They don't even have to follow the Marvel plan, It doesn't matter if all their movies connect. Hell we have one cinematic universe already, do we need another one? Just make good movies, stand alone or as part of a universe. But for the love of all that is holy stop this half and half shit. Some are part of the DCEU and some aren't, its just stupid and confusing, and most of the movies suck tbh. The best thing DC has done is drop that POS Zack Snyder. His movies look awesome visually (sans all the slow mo shit) but story wise they are a rambling incoherent mess.

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DC started biggest and then went smaller. its so stupid, as much as i love Superman, he's also the least interesting superhero because he is in god-mode all the time. even if he isnt in the movie, just knowing he is on Earth at that time, limits the scale of your creativity with villains. its why Wandavision had a major flaw, if she is pulling in that much attention and power and NONE of the Avengers or at least Dr Strange isnt at least interested in whats going on let alone worried that one of their own seems to be holding a portion of the United States hostage might be something they need to address. nope. Strange was taking a nap or something and Falcon was a shrimpin boat captain and Spidey was vajazzling MIT on his GF's cooter.

In a world with Superman in it, you have no choice but to start small and far away from Metropolis. thats why Shazaam worked, and possibly why Flash could have worked if they hadnt ruined it already by casting a little bitch for the role.Wonder Woman worked because the setting was WW1.

I realize I am likely in the minority, but I loved Man of Steel and feel that it was DC's strongest single character film....other than the first two Nolan films which were great, but always felt like it was not part of the DC universe, they never had a feeling of being part of a bigger thing, something the Marvel films did so well. Michael Shannon was so outstanding as Zod that I can re-watch the film for him alone and thought the visuals of Krypton was stellar.

Batman v Superman had some moments and wasnt a trainwreck.

Suicide Squad was a big miss, much of which had to do with Will Smith, but they failed to tie it in, and Harley was annoying. Second Suicide squad was infinitely better than the first, but still failed to create that sense of a being a piece of a larger world, however, they can salvage it with another film. Again though, Harley was annoying.

WW I was decent, but the second film was an abomination.

I choose to ignore Aquaman. Didn't like it at all and found it mainly boring.

Batman and the Joker are the two biggest missteps of the DC debacle. They have recast, rebooted and reintroduced these two core characters so many times that its neutered their value on screen greatly. Spiderman was the Marvel equivalent, but they they leaned into multiverse to reboot. DC had the Crisis on Infinite Earths that could have been their salvation, but they sold their soul to CW and made sub-par TV shows that were OK in their own, but in no way could be foundational to the cinematic universe. As an example, the Daredevil series from Netflix was far superior to the any of the Arrowverse spinoff's.

Lastly, I loved Watchmen. Thought they could have kept the squid ( as the also fantastic HBO series did ), but never understood the hate it got. It was pretty faithful to the graphic novel, casting was great.


DC has no Feige controlling it all. It just feels like parcelled out licensed content with zero connection. Snyder tried, but all the other things DC are just one off's with a possible easter egg, but no central vision.

Feige and Perlmutter. Feige without Perlmutter has brought us mostly trash so far.

Gavinmad said:

Feige and Perlmutter. Feige without Perlmutter has brought us mostly trash so far.

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Great point!

its fan made. pretty neat.

Chukzombi said:

pick a few cool lesser known superheroes. develop them and have them join together in a big film to fight

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This is it, its exactly why MCU worked.

Prior to the Iron Man movie, the Avengers were C-list Marvel superheroes. Every comic reader knew who they were, and a little about them, but they were basically nobody's favorite superheroes. (somebody always wants to chime in and be the exception on this one - thats fine)

Thats exactly what DCU needed to do. All they had to do was copy it.

You can see the success of this in the DC pieces that have worked. Suicide Squad 2. Peacemaker. Doom Patrol. You don't start with fucking Superman - its probably better if we don't even do superman or batman again - you do the lesser known stuff, and do it well.

Marvel got this, DC failed at it. But we'll see another Batman reboot within 3 years, guaran fuckin teed.

Aldarion said:

This is it, its exactly why MCU worked.

Prior to the Iron Man movie, the Avengers were C-list Marvel superheroes. Every comic reader knew who they were, and a little about them, but they were basically nobody's favorite superheroes. (somebody always wants to chime in and be the exception on this one - thats fine)

Thats exactly what DCU needed to do. All they had to do was copy it.

You can see the success of this in the DC pieces that have worked. Suicide Squad 2. Peacemaker. Doom Patrol. You don't start with fucking Superman - its probably better if we don't even do superman or batman again - you do the lesser known stuff, and do it well.

Marvel got this, DC failed at it. But we'll see another Batman reboot within 3 years, guaran fuckin teed.

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Superman could work if he was the original non flying version. The way he is now, he`s unworkable in a team. You need a team up with characters who have flaws but are still essential to the team. Clark is the team, he is all the teams. At the end of Man of Steel Supes should have left earth to chase Zod who escapes in his ship and is led on a chase that takes him out of the solar system where he is so weakened he gets captured by X villain. back on earth, other heroes rise up to fill in the void made by the disappearance of Supes. Maybe later in the franchise you have Superman come back to help kill the big boss. Really not much else you can do with him.

Valderen said:

They can depower him a little bit so while he’s still stronger than anyone else the margin isn’t so great.

Then just do what the MCU does with Thor basically. Have him take care of a huge threat or keep him busy elsewhere doing a side quest and have the little guys have their moments. Marvel has done a great job of not having Thor solves being the answer to every problem. It would work with Superman too if they wanted, but I feel DC just want Superman to be the solution to everything be that simply doesn’t work.

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DC wants to up Supes powers. how do ya think he got this way?

Rajaah said:

Superman's OPness is a problem for me.

Like yeah, some Avengers are stronger than other Avengers if it comes down to it, but all of them are useful and integral, especially the main four.

The Justice League on the other hand, Superman makes the others look like a bunch of jobbers in comparison. It's like when Gokou shows up to fight the bad guy after all the other good guys have been getting knocked around for a while in DBZ. It's bad enough that he completely no-sold and dominated Steppenwolf after the others struggled to gain any ground on him in a five-on-one assault. He also fought them himself five-on-one and completely kicked their asses. The only JL member who is even in the same league is Wonder Woman and she's still a football field behind.

It was speculated on here that Steppenwulf's power level is similar to Thor's and that does sound about right. So if none of the pre-Superman JL could scratch him besides Wonder Woman and she couldn't get the job done either, then 5/6ths of the JL is inferior to that one guy from the Avengers. I guess Superman balances things out since he's probably the strongest hero in either universe (though Marvel would probably say Captain Marvel is on the same level, IDK).

I'd rather have a group where everyone is somewhat balanced and useful than have a group where one guy is godlike and the rest are just there to keep the bad guy busy until he arrives.

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Yeah, Superman is just boring being so OP
In marvel you had Tony Stark (A non powered human who's only super power is technology) fight Thor (The strongest Avenger) to pretty much a stand still.
That's good stuff there

since we are doing nerd stuff here. who would win in a fight?
Superman Vs Thanos with no Infinity Gauntlet?
Superman Vs Thanos with the power gem on the Infinity Gauntlet?
Superman Vs Thanos with full gems Infinity Gauntlet?
pretty sure nothing can beat full gem Thanos, but would be interesting to see.

I dunno. Chuk talks about the original Superman but that was before any of our lifetimes.

The superman comics I remember most always featured pretty retarded, superman-specific villains that made it like he wasnt even part of the bigger DCU. Shit like Mister Mxyzptlk. Bizarro.

Superman vs those guys wasnt god mode, it was an even fight more or less.

Thing is, those characters were so fucking goofy I don't see how you'd even film it.

Legion of Superheroes was always soulless corporate pulp. Even as a kid I always wanted to like them - so many unique powers - but they were just so ... well, we didnt have the word then but Globohomo seems to fit.

Teen Titans would have been a *great* route to go for DCU but obviously thats out of the question after Ghettofyre.

Having a hard time coming up with a c-list DC hero team that could actually work. Doom Patrol it is I guess, they'll have to start the new DCU there.

Speedsters are really the only players who stand a chance against a kryptonian. While supes powers' have no upper limit, The Flash or Eobard Thawne doesn't really have a limit either. The actor aside, writing for the Flash is going to be equally as difficult if not more challenging.

Edit: C list would be something the CW has already done. Black Canary, White Canary, Green Arrow, Wild dog, Roy Harper, deathstroke, etc.

Edit2: Real issue with the DC is the wide spectrum of the powers across a small roster of characters. You go from a dude who shots bow&arrow, to a man dressed as a bat, to a man who fucks fish, to people messing with time it's self(speedsters), to literal gods living on earth(supes, WW). I actually don't think it's possible to make a sensical story tbh. Whatever DC ends up doing it's going to be some multiverse shit that is shoehorned to make sense is my guess.

Look at Hawkeye, cool show but once him and girl stand next to America Chavez or She-hulk next phase who's gonna give a fuck about the bow guy.

Aldarion said:

I dunno. Chuk talks about the original Superman but that was before any of our lifetimes.

The superman comics I remember most always featured pretty retarded, superman-specific villains that made it like he wasnt even part of the bigger DCU. Shit like Mister Mxyzptlk. Bizarro.

Superman vs those guys wasnt god mode, it was an even fight more or less.

Thing is, those characters were so fucking goofy I don't see how you'd even film it.

Legion of Superheroes was always soulless corporate pulp. Even as a kid I always wanted to like them - so many unique powers - but they were just so ... well, we didnt have the word then but Globohomo seems to fit.

Teen Titans would have been a *great* route to go for DCU but obviously thats out of the question after Ghettofyre.

Having a hard time coming up with a c-list DC hero team that could actually work. Doom Patrol it is I guess, they'll have to start the new DCU there.

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Before my time too lol. Go to youtube and look up Fleischer Superman and enjoy the well drawn animated shorts. One of them, the movie, Sky Captain, World of Tomorrow borrowed from.

the Avengers also has a guy with a bow and arrow, a chick whos powers are being sexy, and a literal god on the team.
its not that either.

The issue is just shitty movies written and directed by idiots who do not understand the characters at all. The snyder movies were the anthesis of Superman. no wonder they never really landed. Goyer should never have been allowed to touch Superman. the second "Superman is an alien that doesn't quite understand humanity" came out of his mouth, he should have been fired.

The total refusal to stick to visual design, and characterization for pretty much all the characters killed it as well. Look at TV Flash, versus movie Flash. sure Tv Flash may not LOOK exactly like Barry, but at least kindof sort of a forensic detective. Zoom, etc...