You spoiled entitlement generation white boys and girls better get your shit in gear and make some babies or when you die you won't even be leaving America it will be Mexico 2.
Kids? or No kids?
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That's a lovely viewpoint (no sarcasm intended), but I'm not sure what it has to do with children. I can think of a lot of things I could be doing that would benefit society more than bringing another suburban white kid into the world. In my opinion an altruistic person is that way regardless of children; my wife donates a shit ton of money to charity because she genuinely believes in their causes.
Decado
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Err? Watch a movie without getting interupted, go out, read a book, visit some of the fascinating places I still haven't got around to yet? Basically any one of a thousand things I like to do or will be doing to enjoy my life. It doesn't really matter except I want to do it without having responsibility for someone else, it's just is not my thing.
I know you can do all this with kids and many people do and that kids enhance so many people's lives but some people just can't be arsed with that, doesn't mean they have to go all mother teresa and dedicate their lives to some altruistic goal. Having fun and not being a twat to others occupies me just fine
Springbok
Karen
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Love being around kids, but I love that I don't have to be around them for longer than I choose. I enjoy being independent, traveling and spending money on things intended only for my consumption. I'm pretty fucking selfish though, and would rather spend my time at my business than with kids. At least right now. Perhaps that will someday change, we'll see.
I said I never wanted kids or to get married, just never saw the point of it. Here I am at the age of 30 married for 4 months (been with her for 10 years) and 2 kids and a 3rd of the way. Having your own will change you for the better and it will make you man up more then any other event in your life. I would not change it for world they have made me a better person that is for sure.
Kids are noisy, messy, and frustrating. They require incredible amounts of time, patience, and money. But there is exponentially more love in your life, both given and received. I wouldn't trade a second of it.
A couple of thoughts that came to mind from reading this thread:
- I don't particularly like other people's kids, but I love interacting with my own and I'm glad I had them.
- If you are a good parent your kids will be happy you had them and you will enrich their lives at least (somewhat unselfish).
- Our society is set up (for good or for bad) in such a way that we need to keep growing - we need the next generation to be around to pay taxes, etc. when we retire (also unselfish); if nobody had kids we'd be fucked.
- You don't know what it is to be tired until you've had kids.
Hey I'm new here, so hello...
I've got a child on the way, my wife is 23 weeks along with our first child, and I actually couldn't be more excited about it. I've never been great with kids but I've found plenty of resources (along with my wife's advice) to help ease me into the father role. I saw there were a several posts about children keeping you from doing the things you'll want to do down the road, for instance, traveling or charity, change careers, etc. I've always felt that were it not for children I would never commit to these activities since I really had no reason to.
Usually I wouldn't travel because I figure I should just save the money but now I'm excited to go traveling with my kids because we can share experiences and I can actively participate in making them a worldly person. If my career choices have led me down a path that I work too hard and don't participate with my family then I have a good excuse to reevaluate my job and my priorities. I now have every excuse to do all the things that would just be for self fulfillment because now I can provide an experience and a learning opportunity along the way for my children - maybe we could call this synergistic fulfillment.
Everyday I wake up and realize I am one step closer to building super awesome Lego worlds with someone who will not only appreciate the work but also provide their own insight.
Just like any new experience it can be scary but that doesn't mean I'll regret it.
I've got a child on the way, my wife is 23 weeks along with our first child, and I actually couldn't be more excited about it. I've never been great with kids but I've found plenty of resources (along with my wife's advice) to help ease me into the father role. I saw there were a several posts about children keeping you from doing the things you'll want to do down the road, for instance, traveling or charity, change careers, etc. I've always felt that were it not for children I would never commit to these activities since I really had no reason to.
Usually I wouldn't travel because I figure I should just save the money but now I'm excited to go traveling with my kids because we can share experiences and I can actively participate in making them a worldly person. If my career choices have led me down a path that I work too hard and don't participate with my family then I have a good excuse to reevaluate my job and my priorities. I now have every excuse to do all the things that would just be for self fulfillment because now I can provide an experience and a learning opportunity along the way for my children - maybe we could call this synergistic fulfillment.
Everyday I wake up and realize I am one step closer to building super awesome Lego worlds with someone who will not only appreciate the work but also provide their own insight.
Just like any new experience it can be scary but that doesn't mean I'll regret it.
Here's an interesting perspective on the joys of having children (i.e., since you're stuck with them and they cost a lot, you may as well make the most out of the experience):
http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/0...ds-is-foolish/
http://healthland.time.com/2011/03/0...ds-is-foolish/
Well duh. All the people in the survey had at least one kid under 18. That's the hard part of parenting.
Ask a guy what he thinks about marathons while he's running one and you'll get a very different answer than two days after he's done.
Lots of things we do suck in the short term but are positive in the long run.
I've run one, and I felt better during the marathon than after? lol
I think the point of that article is that we tend to enjoy a person / object more if we:
1) Make the decision to put our resources into it
2) Know that we've invested a lot in it
Not really groundbreaking information, but I hadn't thought about it with regards to kids before. It's probably the reason why people can easily love their own kids rather than another's.
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Raising children is not selfish, but having them surely is...how can you say otherwise? Its your decision to have that child. No one showed up with a suitcase full of money and begged you to serve your country by breeding.
How many men and women have kids to satisfy their significant other? That's selfish, because they know there's consequences to it.
Do we even need to get into the numerous amount of families who do it for tax breaks or government handouts?
Do we need to get into the parents that had kids yet didn't bother raising them?
Westboro Baptist Church? You think they're out breeding lawyers and hate-mongers for the good of society?
What about terrorists who have multiple wives and make an effort to have as many sons as possible for the future of their agenda? (I'm exaggerating, obviously.)
Its situational. Every single instance has to be measured in its own way.
Saying single people are selfish is weak, and parents who preach it are only doing so to make themselves feel benevolent. If you're doing a solid job of parenting, that's worthy of respect...but don't forget you created that obligation of your own will, so you damn well better be doing just that.
In some ways, your kid is indirectly our responsibility too. Many of us pay a ridiculous amount of taxes that go towards schools, playgrounds, and other things single people have absolutely no connection. I can't recall how many times I've had to cover a shift for someone due to reasons of their family. They had to leave early because their kid is in the principal's office, they stayed home because their wife and kids are sick, or they couldn't work overtime because of obligation to their household. I don't remember how many Saturdays I gave up for the sake of fathers.
Don't think because you fucked your wives into production that it gives you bonus points with anyone but your own peers. We all wouldn't hesitate to grab your kid by the scruff of their neck to keep them from walking into traffic, or pay our taxes so they have teachers to educate them. I don't know how many stupid questions I've been asked by kids that I answered. I did it free of charge, and I didn't even swear in front of your child. My generosity knows no limits.
Personally, I'm just going to get a cat.
How many men and women have kids to satisfy their significant other? That's selfish, because they know there's consequences to it.
Do we even need to get into the numerous amount of families who do it for tax breaks or government handouts?
Do we need to get into the parents that had kids yet didn't bother raising them?
Westboro Baptist Church? You think they're out breeding lawyers and hate-mongers for the good of society?
What about terrorists who have multiple wives and make an effort to have as many sons as possible for the future of their agenda? (I'm exaggerating, obviously.)
Its situational. Every single instance has to be measured in its own way.
Saying single people are selfish is weak, and parents who preach it are only doing so to make themselves feel benevolent. If you're doing a solid job of parenting, that's worthy of respect...but don't forget you created that obligation of your own will, so you damn well better be doing just that.
In some ways, your kid is indirectly our responsibility too. Many of us pay a ridiculous amount of taxes that go towards schools, playgrounds, and other things single people have absolutely no connection. I can't recall how many times I've had to cover a shift for someone due to reasons of their family. They had to leave early because their kid is in the principal's office, they stayed home because their wife and kids are sick, or they couldn't work overtime because of obligation to their household. I don't remember how many Saturdays I gave up for the sake of fathers.
Don't think because you fucked your wives into production that it gives you bonus points with anyone but your own peers. We all wouldn't hesitate to grab your kid by the scruff of their neck to keep them from walking into traffic, or pay our taxes so they have teachers to educate them. I don't know how many stupid questions I've been asked by kids that I answered. I did it free of charge, and I didn't even swear in front of your child. My generosity knows no limits.
Personally, I'm just going to get a cat.
I am 40ish and had my son a few years ago. We didn't plan on it and our lives up until that point were pretty much doing whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted. Money and health were not issues for us and we both look much younger (not that it matters how you look, but just sayin) than our age. We've always had dogs which we treat(ed) as our children though so we weren't completely just living for ourselves.
In any case I was terrified as I did not have a clue how to handle a child since I really didn't have any extended exposure to them previously. Plus I knew my life would be changed forever. Now we cannot imagine our lives without him and I love him more than life itself. I just wish that I hadn't lived so shallow an existence previously since I would love for him to have a bro or sis but I am just too fucking old to go through everything again, maybe we'll adopt in a few years. I wish you luck with everything OP.
chaos
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In some ways I agree with you and in some ways you are full of shit. I always liked Chris Rock's standup, he has so many brilliant but simple points, like when he calls out people who say "I take care of my kids". You don't get a medal for that shit, that is the bare minimum you are supposed to do.
All this shit about "selfishness" or whatever, it is dumb. Are we saying it is selfish to engage in the single purpose for our existence here? Having sex in itself, is that selfishness? Even if I go down on her first and everything? When you go down this road your entire post becomes crazy talk. Every parent has selfish motivations but single people don't? Because you pay for schools in part with your property taxes? That is some bullshit right there. A true cunt could come in and try to make the same argument you did in reference to their kids paying your social security/medicare/whatever when you get older while you provided no kids for the future obligations of our society. But that is a stupid argument. We all pay together towards the collective welfare, part of that is making sure kids get educated so they contribute to society and don't come steal your shit and kill you in your sleep.
I don't think there are people out there having kids for tax breaks or government handouts. People try to say stuff like that in the politics thread and it just doesn't make sense, it doesn't even come close to adding up to what the kid itself will cost. Mostly the people you list are the bottom of the barrel amongst humanity. I don't really care if a terrorist has selfish motivations when he has a kid, he is a terrorist, he can get fucked. I don't think your average parent has selfish motivations any more than I think your average person with no kids must be inherently selfish. Like you said, it is situational, but really the logic should be taken a step further where we can say "it doesn't matter." It doesn't matter why a person does or doesn't have kids. For our society to continue, of course people need to continue to have kids. I am not convinced that surface motivations really matter, especially when we know there is a deeper drive at work there.
I'm curious, what reasons are people having kids then? Creating a new person to improve society? The joys of raising a new person genetically related to them? Or are they not thinking anything (but just making sure they're financially able to support the kids)?
So far, we've gotten a lot of (not really reasons but situations where kids just came about):
1) I never really liked kids but had them anyway, and now I can't imagine my life without them
2) I've always wanted kids
3) I want people who care about me when I get older
4) I'm a better person now that I've had kids
I hope to get some honest reasons.
So far, we've gotten a lot of (not really reasons but situations where kids just came about):
1) I never really liked kids but had them anyway, and now I can't imagine my life without them
2) I've always wanted kids
3) I want people who care about me when I get older
4) I'm a better person now that I've had kids
I hope to get some honest reasons.