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Ravishing

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Khane_sl said:
Ok but that's kind of any champ in the game minus maybe Tryndamere. If a champ is easy to play well but hard to master, wouldn't that make champs that are difficult to play out of the gate even harder to master? Are there any champs you consider easier to master that are harder to play than Riven?
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Well firstly you are taking my words the wrong way. I was meaning to say that I don't posses themechanicsto play Riven. Riven is VERY twitchy and I am bad with twitchy champions. Because of this she is infinitely harder to masterfor me.

There are players that thrive on that style and will find her much easier to master... however, she still has a LOT of hidden power in her kit. TONS of animation-cancelling combos that allow your abilities to get off fractions of seconds faster.

It's the tons of hidden shit + twitch playstyle that makes her very very difficult.

There are TONS of champions that are complete opposite, and while every champion is tough to master, it is easier to be "above average" at them then it is with Riven. Any mage or high-cooldown champion would fit the bill here. My champions that I focus on suit what Im capable of. Tryndamere/Nunu/Udyr/Miss Fortune/Evelynn. These are all champions I play currently or have been playing most of Season 3. Most of them have very little twitch to their playstyle and there is very little hidden power. The power comes from positioning, map awareness, and working well with your team.
 
Khane

Khane

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I get you, that makes sense. I guess I find her easier to play because she doesn't have any skillshots (minus her activated R which is really easy to land) and she doesn't have any timing type attacks for team fights (like Katarina's R). I really suck with assassins because of that except for, oddly enough, fizz. I've played him a handful of times since last night and for some reason I find him really easy to play, whereas I might be the worst Zed or Katarina on the face of the planet.
 
Khane

Khane

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Wizardhawk_sl said:
No, that's not what I meant at all. Unless the good Rivens i've run in to in ranked all happen to be challenger+ smurfs.
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You're kind of proving my point here. Aren't you a silver player? Not knocking you, you're probably better than me, but you're claiming that you play against people who have mastered Riven... in Silver.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Khane_sl said:
Ok but that's kind of any champ in the game minus maybe Tryndamere. If a champ is easy to play well but hard to master, wouldn't that make champs that are difficult to play out of the gate even harder to master? Are there any champs you consider easier to master that are harder to play than Riven?
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Easier to master but are harder than Riven? This question breaks my brain.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Khane_sl said:
I think you mean miles between a decent Riven and a Challenger+ Riven. And that can be said for pretty much every champ in the game.
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Good riven players don't need to be Challenger. You need good reflexes and you need to know all the animation cancelling combos.

Here's Box Box showing how to use her Q faster:
Boxboxs tip: Riven fast combo (Q - Broken wings) with slow motion - YouTube
(click the ground, then the target between each Q)

Faker's Riven vs Kennen:
SKT T1 Faker - Riven vs Gragas - KR SoloQ - YouTube
(Kennen taunts Faker, Faker gets like every ability off in a split second with animation cancelling, also grabs Blue buff right after through terrain with the splash dmg while in Ult)

Here's a guide posted on Reddit for all the different animation cancelling combos:
Riven Animation Canceling Guide : leagueoflegends
 
Khane

Khane

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Fawe_sl said:
Good riven players don't need to be Challenger. You need good reflexes and you need to know all the animation cancelling combos.

Here's Box Box showing how to use her Q faster:
Boxboxs tip: Riven fast combo (Q - Broken wings) with slow motion - YouTube
(click the ground, then the target between each Q)

Faker's Riven vs Kennen:
SKT T1 Faker - Riven vs Gragas - KR SoloQ - YouTube
(Kennen taunts Faker, Faker gets like every ability off in a split second with animation cancelling, also grabs Blue buff right after through terrain with the splash dmg while in Ult)

Here's a guide posted on Reddit for all the different animation cancelling combos:
Riven Animation Canceling Guide : leagueoflegends
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I get what you're saying now. Because of the versatility of her kit there are a lot of different things you'd do in different circumstances, whereas a lot of other champions are just, do this 95% of the time.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Khane_sl said:
Easier to master than Riven, but harder to pick up the first few times you play them than Riven is.
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Learning curves. Riven is pretty easy to pick up for sure. I'd say a lot of champions would be harder to pick up and are easier to master. Riven only needs atk damage and doesn't use a resource. Pretty basic tbh.

A brand new player to this game playing equally skilled newbie players would likely have more success playing Riven than playing so many other champions. ADCs would fit the bill nicely. An ADC like Miss Fortune caps out pretty early.. Not much to her really. There are some small interactions with her double-up but once you learn that and know the basics of the game, you've pretty much "mastered" her. However, a brand new player will have a much harder time playing MF than Riven imo.
 
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Draegan_sl

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I would probably have to go with Elise and Nid off the top of my head just because you have more buttons to press with the form change. For me, hard to master, like Fawe said is all the twitch and animation canceling shit. I've never been good at APM stuff.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

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Khane_sl said:
You're kind of proving my point here. Aren't you a silver player? Not knocking you, you're probably better than me, but you're claiming that you play against people who have mastered Riven... in Silver.
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Where the fuck did I say I played against Riven masters? I said good rivens, not pro rivens. Never once have I even claimed to be in a game with a challenger level player, I doubt i've seen more than maybe 2 people who had the mechanics/etc. to make me believe they were genuinely a plat or possibly low diamond smurf and neither was playing riven.

Edit: Just did a game as jungle Olaf. Forgot to build a spirit of golem heheh. I was doing good early game but I started to fall off after a bit. How does Olaf stay viable through the entire game or does he just turn in to a tank who can't do much but help in chases?

Went for 3 dorans, boots 1, spirit visage, randuins, ionian boots (almost maxed cdr between those and spirit visage, maybe not the best boots tho, I didn't know which ones to get) and then warmogs.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Olaf will fall off, you built him right. He's a beast early and miss game though. Just build him tanky with masteries.
 
Khane

Khane

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Draegan_sl said:
I would probably have to go with Elise and Nid off the top of my head just because you have more buttons to press with the form change. For me, hard to master, like Fawe said is all the twitch and animation canceling shit. I've never been good at APM stuff.
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Like Fawe said it really does come down to the personal player so I suppose I was wrong. Pressing buttons in a sequence, even with animation cancelling is infinitely easier for someone like me than knowing when I should change my forms and rappel to dodge an attack with someone like Elise. I'll never be better with a champ like her or Lee Sin than I am with Riven.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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so back to the original message.... That Yasuo.
I will definitely try him out.
I feel like he'll be the next highlight reel champion. It's been a lot of Zed & Riven the past year, we'll probably see a lot of Yasuo upcoming.
I can't wait to see how the pros utilize him.
 
zombiewizardhawk

zombiewizardhawk

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Draegan_sl said:
Olaf will fall off, you built him right. He's a beast early and miss game though. Just build him tanky with masteries.
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Alright yeah, was rocking 9/21/0 masteries and just trying to tank. I just expected more given the way people were talking about him I guess. Early game WAS monstrous tho, helped get my mid and top beefy (our bot lane was steamrolling em pretty hard on their own and the enemy j4 was trying to camp top).
 
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Draegan_sl

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You have to play Olaf like an assassin late game. Catch people out solo. Go in after your tank to a group fight. That sort of thing. He is a beastly 1v1, 2v1'er.
 
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Commander Vimeseh_sl

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Olaf doesn't fall off until 35 minutes or so if you are keeping pace with the game. If you feel like you aren't anything but a slow bot then try tossing a trinity in to your build.
 
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