League Of Legends

Really depends on the item changes. If everything stays the same and they just make the jungle harder then sure, even less diversity of junglers will happen. Got to play it and see.

boo double post booo

Oblio_sl said:

Perhaps tankier junglers will become more popular. Sure they will have slower clear times but come out of the jungle with more health.

HI TO YOU Sej, Mao, Mundo, J4 (with Golem), new Sion, Zac, Rammus etc etc etc

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The tanky junglers are usually the ones who get chewed up on their first few clears. If it gets harder they'll see even less play.

I guess I just don't see how changing the jungle will have any impact what so ever on the top junglers now. Lee, Khazix, J4, Elise all have awesome single target/aoe/sustain/ganking/clear/etcetcetc. You either need to nerf the living shit out of those junglers or it will never change.

Yet, then you nerf those 4 junglers and then another 4 will take their place. At least seeing these 4 top junglers game after game is interesting because all 4 of them are fairly high skill cap junglers. Hell, remember how awful it was when every game was Shyvana, Mundo or Zac in the jungle and they did nothing but grab oracles asap and build full tank, running around clearing wards and being jackshit boring.

Also, today was very weird for lag. I had the day off work, so I sat down to play a couple games around 1pm est, laggy as shit. Took a break, played again around 4:30pm, perfect no lag, no dc, no reconnect bug, did about 2 games. Then I tried again at around 9pm and the same thing, perfect, no lag, no dc, no reconnect bug. Internet was working great every single time too so it's really weird that at 1pm on a tuesday it would be having the most problems. League, you make no sense!

They did mention they are willing to nerf/buff champs after the changes are out so who the fuck knows. I personally am looking forward to anything that may change it as there is just really nothing to the camps at the moment.

I hope to be able to play shyvana in jungle again and not be dogshit. By far my favourite jungle champion. We obviously need a meta where fiddlesticks is a first pick, though x)

Arbitrary_sl said:

And on top of that every single time that the simpler junglers have been good (see the entire history of Master Yi and Xin Zhao) they have been nerfed or their items have been nerfed. Don't go and tell me that you want the Xin Zhao to be just as valid a choice as Lee Sin when you always always always fucking nerf successful auto attack characters. Always. Every time. If Xin is just as good as Lee they will 100% nerf Xin because he'll be carrying too hard at low Elo. Just like they've always done forever.

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Spot on accurate.

Currently biggest LoL pet peeve: jungle amumu whose first 2 items are spectral wraith and rylais. It used to be a rare yolo build but lately I would say 75% of all amumu's I see are doing it. /ranton WTFWHY?? /rantoff

Tortfeasor_sl said:

Currently biggest LoL pet peeve: jungle amumu whose first 2 items are spectral wraith and rylais. It used to be a rare yolo build but lately I would say 75% of all amumu's I see are doing it. /ranton WTFWHY?? /rantoff

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Because it wins solo Q games. The main problem with it is when you don't have another Tank on your team, and the people doing it don't adjust builds accordingly.

I don't see them ever figuring the game out enough to make more than 3 or 4 champs common in the jungle at the pro level, but I wish for the common-peasant level we could have that bigger variety. I jungle rarely but when I do I always go for my preferred champs over the meta ones just because I love Sej, Amumu, Eve, Trundle. I actually have a stupidly high win-rate in the jungle considering I never do it and those aren't exactly "in" picks, but I do mostly hate the jungle itemization even so.

I guess my point is, I'm only winning those jungle matches because I'm abusing my overall greater game knowledge to take advantages for my team. If I was matched up against those top-tier junglers that actually KNEW what they were doing, they could shit all over my bear cavalry and I would feel pretty fucking boned all the time.

Tortfeasor_sl said:

Currently biggest LoL pet peeve: jungle amumu whose first 2 items are spectral wraith and rylais. It used to be a rare yolo build but lately I would say 75% of all amumu's I see are doing it. /ranton WTFWHY?? /rantoff

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Like ancient said, the build is rather effective for solo queue although I prefer Wraith in to liandry's then tank item. After that core three then I'm either building an abyssal, a Rylais, or an hourglass and capping off with another tank item. If I'm behind and my team doesn't have any other tanky initiator type then I'll skip the third offensive item and just go straight defense. Basically if you farm well and keep yourself even to ahead the wraith/liandry's combo lets you solo just about anyone if you have your ult up and are good at landing bandages. This works until about the 25 minute mark where you will need to get some tankiness.

Oblio_sl said:

4.18 Patch went live this morning, let the Era of Sion begin. My guess is he will be nerfed within 2 weeks.

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Er? I'm not at home to test but everything says maintenance is tomorrow morning. And I see no one streaming new Sion, which I assume I would

Amzin_sl said:

I don't see them ever figuring the game out enough to make more than 3 or 4 champs common in the jungle at the pro level, but I wish for the common-peasant level we could have that bigger variety.

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Which I think is a much more reasonable design goal. The jungle role by its nature is more likely than other lanes to be dominated by a very small subset of champions. In a lane you are right up against your opponent and the unique abilities of each character have a huge impact on how that lane goes. If you're jungling you aren't playing against your opponent in the same direct way so although counters exist it isn't really all that relevant. Just pick whoever The Best is. There's only going to be a few champions at any time that are considered The Best so go with them. In competitive play we are seeing very little focus on banning junglers outside of Lee Sin. If bans aren't levied at junglers all that often in competitive play why have some big, diverse champ pool? Just play The Best. In the four different matches of the quarterfinals at Worlds you see mostly Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, and Elise with a couple J4s, two Rengars, and one Evelyn. Sixteen total games, 32 jungle slots, almost all slots taken by one of three characters. And I don't really think it's a problem.

But don't go telling me you want Xin Zhao and Hecarim to be on the same playing field as Elise and Lee Sin. You don't. When champions whose primary decision is when to push all their buttons are good they get nerfed. Simple characters that are also strong characters carry too hard at lower Elo. That's why Xin Zhao and Master Yi get nerfed every single time they are good (or the items that make them good are nerfed). There has been tons and tons of discussion about that very topic. I don't have a problem with that being the case either. But don't go telling me about how you want Xin Zhao and Lee Sin to be equally valid picks unless that is the justification for nerfing Lee Sin even more. Which I don't even want.

What I want to see in a post about S5 changes is something about how they are going to start taking hard looks at junglers and start polishing up the ones that don't really work all that great. I also want to see someone in charge come right out and say they are going to stop making junglers that do tons and tons and tons of things. If I saw in the patch notes that Nautilus had some mana cost reductions to Riptide and Titan's Wrath along with some better base attack speed it would mean way more to me than all that design talk.

I don't understand why they spend so much resources revamping jungle over and over again.

Actually, looking at statistics on lolking, I have no idea WHAT they're going on about. Of the big 3 junglers (Elise, Lee, Kha) only Kha has a winrate above 50% and Lee/Elise aren't even close. Whereas Sej, Warwick, Xin Zhao, Rammus all have >50%, in some cases drastically higher. So the only lack of viability in jungle appears to be specific junglers they nerfed the shit out of (Lee, Elise, Zac), for pro-level reasons. So I guess they ARE going to try rebalancing around the pro level cause the noob level looks to be in ok shape. Maybe my jungle wins weren't as flukey as I thought.