League Of Legends

Ravishing

Ravishing

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promotion series are not anymore difficult than the games you play leading up to it as matchmaking is all done the same way as it always has. Your Elo determines how you get paired up even though you can't see Elo anymore it still determines mostly everything. The only reason the matches might be harder is because you will likely be at your highest ever Elo rating once you get to a promotion series, especially if it's a best of 5 since there is LP clamping that occurs if the system doesn't deem you worthy to start a promotion series to next Tier. (No LP clamping if it is just advancing divisions). If you're confused how the new system works I'll attempt to explain it in more detail once I'm not half-asleep.
 
G

Golt_sl

shitlord
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Unless I'm mistaken (certainly could be confusing the two) I thought if smartcast was ON, the QWER buttons underneath each ability disappear, correct? Because if so, then yeah - they've had smartcast on before. If you can see the QWER with smartcast on still, then i probably messed up and assumed wrong
 
Bain

Bain

Bronze Knight of the Realm
399
2
Your elo advances on a per-win basis just like it did previously. The new thing is that you get LP "clamping" behind the scenes that limits your LP gain at 90+ LP for a promotion series from one division to another until the system is sure that you are capable of consistently playing at that level. What that means is that you have to grind out x games until the system is sure your elo is where it belongs before it will allow you to freely gain LP until a promotion series at 100 LP. The unfortunate part about all of this is that you have no way of knowing how many games you need to play or how close you actually are from being able to gain uninhibited LP at 90+ which makes advancing from one division to another somewhat painful.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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Bain_sl said:
The new thing is that you get LP "clamping" behind the scenes that limits your LP gain at 90+ LP for a promotion series from one division to another until the system is sure that you are capable of consistently playing at that level.
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It is only for getting promoted to a new Tier where clamping occurs... Which means only in Division I of each Tier. Since promotion to tiers is permanent they have stricter guidelines in place for what Elo you need to be at before allowing you to advance.

When you think about how the new system works, you'll realize the main reason for LP is actually to deter people from dodging games. They could have easily created tiers & divisions using just Elo but by creating a 2nd unit of measurement they can now penalize players for dodging games while still keeping the integrity of the ranking system.

Elo (now called MMR = Matchmaking Rating), still functions the same way as it always has. Behind the scenes you are gaining or losing ~13 Elo per game. LP is calculated based on your Elo compared to the Tier & Division you are in. Say you are in a Division that is a 1200-1350 Elo range but your actual Elo is 1500. You will be playing against other 1500 players and if you secure a victory you will consistently earn 20+ (I've even seen 30+) LP per victory until you are promoted to the division meant for 1500 Elo players.

It is even possible to get promoted 2 or more Divisions from 1 promotion series.

One thing to realize about LP is that even though your League page has a "ranking" of players based on LP, you could have players in your division with 0 LP (ranked at the bottom), that have a higher Elo than the players with 100 LP.

There are several reasons for this, and I'll use myself as an example, I had 1389 Elo before the new system changed and I started in Silver I. My games went something like this (using 13 as an average for Elo gain/loss):

Begin Season 3 @ 1389 Elo
Win: +7 LP, +13 Elo, (1402 Elo / 7 LP)
Loss: -7 LP, -13 Elo, (1389 Elo / 0 LP)
Loss: Remain 0 LP, -13 Elo, (1376 Elo / 0 LP)
Loss: Remain 0 LP, -13 Elo, (1363 Elo / 50 LP) *Demoted to Silver II -- Start with 50 LP in Silver II*
Win: +23 LP, +13 Elo, (1376 Elo , 73 LP)
Win: +20 LP, +13 Elo, (1389 Elo / 93 LP)
Loss: -21 LP, -13 Elo, (1376 Elo , 72 LP)
Win: +20 LP, +13 Elo, (1389 Elo / 92 LP)
Win: +8 LP, +13 Elo, (1402 Elo / 100 LP) *Start Promotion Series*
Win: Remain 100 LP, +13 Elo, (1415 Elo / 100 LP)
Loss: -19 LP, -13 Elo (1402 Elo, 81 LP)
Loss: -17 LP, -13 Elo (1389 Elo, 64 LP)
--------------

Using this example, which is pretty close to what has happened to me except I ended up losing a 2nd promotion series and then had a losing streak that took me all the way to Division III, then I had a winning streak to get back to Division II, I estimate I'm sitting at 0 LP in Division II with about the same 1389 Elo that I started with when I was at 0 LP in Division I.

There is consistent downward pressure for LP. You always lose LP (unless sitting at 0, you get a few free losses until your Elo drops low enough where it says you need to be demoted), but during Promotion series, if you Win the 1st game, you will not gain anymore LP over 100. So going Win, Loss, Loss in a promotion series is much worse than going Loss, Win, Loss or Loss, Loss, Win... In either of the latter cases you will have about ~80 LP instead of ~60LP after losing the promotion series. In both of my promotion series to get back to Div I, I went Win, Loss, Loss. This causes my Elo to get out of sync with my LP gain. I've only dropped 1 loss worth of Elo but I've dropped 2 losses worth of LP. (Need 1 Win to remain where I was at with Elo but need 2 Wins to get back to promotion series, and another 2 games to get back to my original Division I, so if I make it back to Division I my Elo will be about +50 higher than the first time I was at Div I)

Another issue is when you get demoted you start with 50 LP in the new Division but when you get promoted you start at 0. So when I was demoted to Div III my Elo was probably around ~1300 and I started with 50 LP, I went on a 6 game winning streak to get back to Div II. 6 wins is ~78 Elo gain which is why I estimate to be back around +/- 1389 currently (probably more like 1380ish). If I was never demoted I would be at the same Elo but up for a promotion series for Div I again.

Point is, LP is not a fair way to rank anybody. There is no point having the Leagues page since the rankings are totally false. They need to show us our Elo rating again and rank players within the League by that.
 
Bandwagon

Bandwagon

Kolohe
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So i got to play a couple games with sebur from the forums this weekend. Went 1/9 on the first game and not much better on the others. After about 4 games with him, he pointed out that i kept doing a glass cannon build and to stack more hps.

Went 10/4 on the next and won, then won 3 more after that. It's amazing what a difference it makes just having the enemy see my hp bar. Before i'd always get focused and chased, on these games people kept just running from me.

So thanks for the simple advice, sebur. Looking forward to more games with you.

Also, i ended up in another game laning against j4. Ended up destroying this one
 
Sidian

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
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Yeah, it still feels like getting HP is too easy at the moment. Warmogs...everywhere! Been watching these LCS games and it's usually at least 1/2 the players have warmogs as their 2 or 3 item. It's bad when even ADC's are grabbing warmogs as their one defensive item because of how good it is. Plus when bruisers can grab 1 dps item then build pure tank and still do massive damage. (I"m looking at you Elise, Olaf, Vi, Xin, Lee, etc etc etc)
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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HP is king simply because of all the Armor & Magic pen items but I think things are fairly well balanced tbh. Warmogs is good but a big reason imo is due to the health regen along with the +Health. The champs building Warmog usually lacked significant lifesteal. It is demoralizing to exchange pokes but have them regen back that damage during lane phase. In team fights the health undoubtedly helps and the regen gets them back in fighting shape faster.

I think there is too much focus on the +Health and not enough on the +regen.

We have BoTRK, Liandry's and champions like Elise with %health damage which does a decent job countering +Health except the regen on Mogs does a too good of a job mitigating the damage these items & champs do.

I still look at who the worst threats are and will build resistances to counter them. If I'm against a fed Akali, for example, I'll get a Banshee's on my ADC.
 
Bandwagon

Bandwagon

Kolohe
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I didnt make it to a final build, but i wasskipping warmogs. i wanted ad too.

Boots
Tear of the goddess
Frozen mallet
Black cleaver
Zekes herald

Was planning on finishing with trinity, then upgrading or selling tear, but never made it this far. Those 4 games, i only made it to zekes once, black cleaver once, and the other 2 i got as far as brutalizer
 
S

sebur

Bronze Squire
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Bandwagon_sl said:
So i got to play a couple games with sebur from the forums this weekend. Went 1/9 on the first game and not much better on the others. After about 4 games with him, he pointed out that i kept doing a glass cannon build and to stack more hps.

Went 10/4 on the next and won, then won 3 more after that. It's amazing what a difference it makes just having the enemy see my hp bar. Before i'd always get focused and chased, on these games people kept just running from me.

So thanks for the simple advice, sebur. Looking forward to more games with you.

Also, i ended up in another game laning against j4. Ended up destroying this one
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Speaking of health...that last game I played with you when I played Eve I actually picked up warmogs and to everyone's point it is just insanely good right now. I was actually chasing a singed from baron all the way up mid lane to his nexus and barely lost half of my life before I killed him, but then against I also was wrecking on her.

Ya the funny thing is I have been messing with Warmogs akali and just straight tanky elise after getting some magic pen after seeing it at the LCS and it is just absurd. The champions it works best on is constant damage mobility champs it seems.
 
C

Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
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Its back to League of bruisers at this point (was like this about a year and a half ago), however now instead of naturally tanky champs its everyone slapping a warmogs in to their build and it really does work.

For those trying to get in to jungling or those who jungle and haven't picked up on the meta yet...

Solo queue jungle is going to be dominated by these three jungles with these basic builds:

Vi: Spirit of the ancient lizard --- giants belt --- Brut --- warmogs --- black cleaver --- whatever

Xin: Locket of the iron solari --- Runic Bulwark --- BC/Mogs ---- Whatever

Lee sin: locket --- BC --- Mogs --- Randuins.

Some will feel more comfortable with Hecarim over Lee sin, but I'm not very good at him so I stick with Lee. All three are perfect for the current laning meta and then the health stacking. They are highly aggressive and lend themselves to constant ganking while at the same time fill the role of initiator on any team and are able to stick to the enemy carry that is singled out for attention. Since everyone including the adc's are building health items and the current meta is favoring strong solo's that aren't natively tanky but become health monsters these three champs are amazing fits.

Oh and aside from Vi Locket is a must build. The diving potential and level 7-12 advantage it gives in small skirmishes/team fights is insane. I was diving 2-3 turrets deep on people multiple times yesterday with xin just because the locket gives you so much of an advantage fighting under there.
 
Sidian

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
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I usually skip brut and just get even more tanky on Vi. Elder Lizard + Her base damages give her plenty of damage that'd I'd rather just get the warmogs earlier. Elder lizard > Beserker > giants belt > warmogs > locket/aegis (depending on enemy team comp)

I suppose sometimes I grab a phage into mallet in place of your brut into BC if my team lacks CC.

Mainly Vi is just so broken right now because you stack health, which gives you a much bigger shield from her passive and your W does % health damage which basically owns all these other health stackers. No need to stack damage, just health.
 
C

Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
2,122
3
I've been picking Vi for when my team has more CC and then Xin/Lee for when I need to bring some better cc myself. Vi is to me the most offensive minded of the good junglers right now, and the BC has been the difference between soloing out that adc or guy I caught alone and not. But yah I can see skipping the BC on her. Xin for instance doesn't really need a BC because of his kit and the fact that you cannot run from him and the constant combat interruption of Q. However I do like putting at least one offensive item on my jungles and its pretty much always BC, the item is just too good for tanky melee champs.

Mainly Vi is just so broken right now because you stack health, which gives you a much bigger shield from her passive and your W does % health damage which basically owns all these other health stackers. No need to stack damage, just health.
Click to expand...
Vi is very powerful right now, but I'd argue that Xin is the more broken champ from a purely jungling perspective. Guy brings it all; good clears, ganks pre six that put Vi's to shame, great damage, and the ability to tower dive from everywhere and anywhere without needing an ult to make it safe. He also brings more to team fights imo with his displacement ult, a low cd diving ability that makes carries cry and being much more tanky then Vi without even taking in to account the locket/bulwark build.
 
Sidian

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,279
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Yeah, Brut into BC is probably the best item for most tanky junglers since it has such a smooth upgrade cost. Plus if you have to sit on Brut for 15-20 minutes it doesn't really matter because just that item alone is worth it.

Have you tried going straight LW instead of BC on the champions with high base damages? I know I've done Mogs + Locket into LW on Vi and it worked well. I'd believe it'd be a good item for Lee or Xin as well compared to BC. Although I never really play Xin and I haven't touched Lee for quite some time now.
 
C

Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
2,122
3
Haven't tried LW since the basic builds I've posted have done such good work for me so far, but I'll dick around with it in normal drafts to see how they compare.
 
Bandwagon

Bandwagon

Kolohe
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
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I was just thinking today about picking up vi for a jungler. I've never jungled before, but trying to fill i'll my roles.

What i'm thinking is jayce top, vi or kha jungle, eve or talon mid, draven adc and probably blitz support, but i haventplayed blitz yet.

Does that sound ok for someone with low skill level? I know draven can be a pain, but i've got some practice with him. Need to try again stacking hps like i did on jayce.

Also, has anyone tried jungle on jayce? Heard he's slow to start but pickms up quick
 
Sidian

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
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Honestly you should build Jayce more glass cannony because his long range poke is just insane. Tear > Brut > blood thirster > maramana > last whisper. You then get blue buff, sit back and chunk people for 1/4 of their health using Acceleration Gate + Uhh whatever the hell the blast orb thing is called lol.

Khazix also isn't the greatest Jungler, he's alright but I feel he's better off in a lane, usually middle. If you really want to do well in the jungle I suggest one of the 3 Vime mentioned, Xin, Lee or Vi as those 3 are all very strong right now. Lee is the hardest to play well so he definitely takes some time to get use too. Hecarim and Amumu are both very strong initiaters as well, but I'm pretty sure Amumu is always banned in low to mid elos.

Jayce jungle, like any champion, "can" work, but he is such a great bully in lane and doesn't really have any hard counters, so he's just overall better off either Top or Mid.

edit:
Draven is a great ADC, but you really want to play him aggressive in bot lane since he's very strong early game. Have you tried out Ezreal or Graves? Ez has kept getting nerfed but he's still so mobile he's a beast. Graves is probably the tankiest ADC, as well as one of the burstiest, so he works extremely well in this bruiser heavy meta.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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rarely see jayce jungle, most bruisers are viable jungle though. I jungled jayce a few times when he was first released. Nothing wrong with it tbh. He does have decent gank potential but Vi, Xin, Hec and Lee are just better. They all have great ganking potential due to cc's and speed. Jayce does have his gate and a slow but not as good as any of the others.

Vi is just good. Q is very versatile, you can get in & out of creep camps easily and helps you counterjungle & gank. Also the knock-up on Q is awesome when ganking, her Ult is obviously great, too. Her E is insane damage and creep clearing.

Xin is awesome with his dash and his consistent knock-ups.

Lee Sin is great as always, Q allows awesome mobility, his Ult can throw a target wherever he pleases, E for a slowdown and W to allies/wards makes him hard to catch.

Hecarim has multiple CC and nobody can outrun him, fast and deadly.

Jayce really can't compete but has strengths in other areas, he's definitely better as a top laner. Edit: Agree with above that Jayce's strength is his poke which means +Dmg. But you can certainly build damage as a jungler, however a jungler does not gain as much gold as a solo-laner so you'll never be as powerful as a top-lane jayce. A jungler gains about equiv gold as the support... usually ~5k less gold per game than the other players, that's a whole 1.5 items worth. Plus jungle jayce would be buying machete which isn't the greatest for him mid-late game.
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
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Don't make Draven your primary ADC because he isn't very good and don't make Blitz your primary support cause he is almost permabanned and mid-low elos.
 
Bandwagon

Bandwagon

Kolohe
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I've tried lee sin, didnt like him at all. Ezand vi i tried when i was brand new, so i didnt do well with them. I'll give it another shot. i thought draven was a pretty good adc, but i'll check into ez again.

And i've been doing all dmg on jayce because of his nuke, but i always fall off mid to late game because i get focused hard. I'm really liking the tankyness when building all hp and dmg items, and my nuke is still strong enough to make people keep distance.

Add me, though. I'd love some more in game input.

Mariospeedwagon
 
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