League Of Legends

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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I don't understand what you mean by the champions being locked. Do you mean that you can't play a champion you don't own? The simple answer to that is until you have a deep enough pool of champions that you're comfortable with to play, then you shouldn't play ranked. Ranked isn't meant to be a test of your prowess at one champ or even one role; it simply measures how much you win games and starts to sort people out and match them with people with the intent to have everyone winning 50 percent of their games.
By locked, yes you cannot pick any champ at any time which is different in contrast to dota.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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Honestly, I think that post was just an excuse to say Dota A > League.
Not at all, with all the discussion on the last pages about ranked, I wondered if there was an opinion of whether the limited pool to an account impacted game results in a measurable way. Say like 1% of the time hero pool matters, or 5% or 0%. I thought it was an interesting topic.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
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Part of my problem might be the fact that I don't do this and instead like to play a wide range of champions (although I like to think i'm fairly good at evaluating any laning situation).
Two points to make here. I spent 150+ games of normal playing MF and when S3 ladder started I went 9-1 with MF in my placement matches. My team was glad to give me ADC throughout this because my win rate spoke for itself. I had FAR more experience playing MF with any permutation of friendly support versus enemy adc/support. Think of how different an MF/Leona vs Ezreal/Sona lane plays compared to MF/Sona vs Draven/Leona. That I had seen and played 15+ games of any given lane dynamic was a HUGE advantage for me and helped me win lanes in which I was at the disadvantage.

This is why ranked is a predictor of skill but doesn't show the whole story. I may have got Gold playing MF but I'm a high bronze (at best) top/mid because I --never-- play those roles. I DO think that I'll shit on any bronze player after a few weeks of practice at a role but that's because I trust my ability to learn and keep a happy mindset regardless of how every individual game turns out.

I disagree with your idea that you are "fairly good at evaluating any laning situation". You simply have not played a noteworthy sum of games with the variety of champs you want to play. Jungles change things too. How you play versus the same champ will (ought to) change dramatically if you're blue side and the enemy jungler is Shaco, for example. If you're playing 30+ champs a week then you really arent giving yourself time to internalize anything you learn from game to game. You're already out and in the next game playing something different and the next time you revisit the same lane/jungle dynamic may be a month from now.

Compare this to an ADC who plays nothing but Cait/Vayne or calls support if ADC is picked... Who will have more experience handling all variables?
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Maybe i'll try sticking to 1 or 2 champs for each role and see what happens. Just got out of a good game to be reviewed because we got wrecked, 3 to 18, surrendered at 20 minutes. I was renekton top against kha'zix (who we even got first blood on right away).
 

Sidian

Lord Nagafen Raider
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There are definitely counter picks in this game but to say you're pretty much 100% screwed isn't the case. Did a ranked game a couple days ago where I was Vayne with a Nami Support and the enemy team picked Cait + Zyra. That is just a brutal lane to go against as Vayne, so I asked our top lane (who was kennen) if he would swap with us, which he did. We proceeded to 1v2 the enemy top lane who was Singed, got first blood on him by about level 3, got tower early, then lane swapped back.

Now, I could have laned against the Cait/Zyra straight from the beginning but then I would probably be behind in cs a bit, probably wouldn't have gotten the first blood, hell, maybe I would have given up first blood because that combo is really tough for Vayne. They definitely have the advantage 2v2, but it's still doable.

It's also why you see many first picks of Jayce, Kennen, Renek, Shen, etc etc because they really don't have "heavy" counter picks. They have soft-counters (well, not jayce lololol) but overall it's not that big of a problem. Where as if I first pick Singed for instance and get a Teemo top with a Sejuani in the jungle I basically fucked myself over because Singed vs Teemo is rage worthy and Sej is also very strong against Singed due to her perma slows.

Then again, all these counter picks can be completely shut down if you get an early jungle gank and kill them.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,428
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Oh yeah baby, undefeated in pvp since I hit 30. That Tristana game was a perfect example of how a bad game can be turned around if you don't rage out on your teammates. Got off to a great start when I picked Tristana without realizing I was picking up mid and had to lane against Cass. Even with a first blood thanks to a gank from the jungler, I ended up pretty far behind in CS about 20 minutes in and the game, while not a blowout, was looking pretty grim. But I kept my head down, my mouth shut, and kept farming, and we ended up winning with an overall score of 32-31, and I ended up #1 gold earned.

So far the secret to my success has been buying a couple sight wards every single time I'm at the shop.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
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Maybe i'll try sticking to 1 or 2 champs for each role and see what happens. Just got out of a good game to be reviewed because we got wrecked, 3 to 18, surrendered at 20 minutes. I was renekton top against kha'zix (who we even got first blood on right away).
These really aren't the type of games you should be questioning. A complete slaughter like 3/18 forfeit at 20 doesn't really take much analysis; game was a loss and its doubtful you could have made any impact. I think ~40 percent of games you'll win because your team carries, ~40 percent you'll lose because your team gets crushed. The remaining games are the ones in which you may tip the balance either way. Think about how huge of a difference it would make to gaining ELO for you to win 5-10 percent more games. That takes a break-even (never leave bronze) player to winning 60 percent of his matches and you'll climb steadily. Even if you lose a few series matches in a row your MMR will end up high enough that you'll skip the next bracket. In short, winning players pick up "extra" wins by playing calm in those clutch late game team fights... OR, by going 6/0 in lane and making your enemy rage quit or the enemy team so demoralized they don't want to play on.

Last thought: ust because the top 1000 players on NA can win 80 percent of their games on a smurf doesn't mean that's a realistic goal for you to strive towards.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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One of the best things you can do for yourself with regards to improving your overall game is just pick a fairly basic champ and run with it for a long, long time. By basic I mean mechanically simple. Warwick/nunu/annie etc. Champs with single target spells, or simple cones/AEs, champs you don't have to worry about fucking up mechanically with too much. This lets you focus on the game in a more "macro" sense, if you get my meaning. By not being concerned as much with handling say, Jayce, properly, you can focus more attention on the minimap/warding/objectives/covering lanes etc etc, which can do wonders for getting you in the right mindset to have an impact on the game outside of just your laning phase.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
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Yea, that's my main problem. I play on a pretty crappy laptop when I do get to play, getting FPS spikes down to 10 in some teamfights and 15-25 on average. Unfortunately, I like some champions that aren't quite basic (lissandra, anivia, etc..). I royally fuck up mechanics in skirmishes/teamfights sometimes, but sometimes I think it's literally input lag from framerate going down. I know WHAT I want to do, I just don't end up doing it for whatever reason. I'm really not sure if I'm misclicking abilities or if they aren't going off correctly soemtimes.

I really should stop trying to play champions that let me 'outplay' an opponent if I don't fuck up, and play more easy champs. I'm pretty good with Ryze, Shen, Nasus, etc.. should just focus on those and forget about the harder ones until I can get a better computer to play on.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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These really aren't the type of games you should be questioning. A complete slaughter like 3/18 forfeit at 20 doesn't really take much analysis; game was a loss and its doubtful you could have made any impact. I think ~40 percent of games you'll win because your team carries, ~40 percent you'll lose because your team gets crushed. The remaining games are the ones in which you may tip the balance either way. Think about how huge of a difference it would make to gaining ELO for you to win 5-10 percent more games. That takes a break-even (never leave bronze) player to winning 60 percent of his matches and you'll climb steadily. Even if you lose a few series matches in a row your MMR will end up high enough that you'll skip the next bracket. In short, winning players pick up "extra" wins by playing calm in those clutch late game team fights... OR, by going 6/0 in lane and making your enemy rage quit or the enemy team so demoralized they don't want to play on.

Last thought: ust because the top 1000 players on NA can win 80 percent of their games on a smurf doesn't mean that's a realistic goal for you to strive towards.
Fairly accurate assessment of the way my games break down i'd say. I am certain i'll eventually climb in to the higher leagues but I still stand by the fact that luck plays a big part in it. Every time you lose a promo series that's another 4+ games in that division. Assuming the 40/40/20 game outcome and the fact that you have to get a few wins in a row to make it to the promo series, odds are somewhat good that you're going to run in to some steamrolls which can result in a nice long grind in "elo hell".

Kind of disappointing to hear that games tend to work like that in the higher leagues too, though. I was hoping it would be a lot more competetive/close.
 

Xalara

Golden Squire
826
81
With regards to counter picking, I love it when someone counter picks me mid. It means I get to play hard mode and have to step up my game and improve my mechanics. Actually, more often than not where I am in silver, it means they were just blindly looking at LoLKing and picked a champion they have no experience playing so I actually get easy mode.

Summary: Unless you know how to play the champion you're counter picking with, don't counter pick.

P.S. Yes I first pick mid, but that's because I actually buy wards and place them. 99% of mids I see in silver don't place wards near both tribrushes and it makes me sad. You gain so much map control early game by doing that.
 

Amzin

Lord Nagafen Raider
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361
I disagree with that to an extent. Chances are the game got out of control really early, but looking at those first 5 minutes may still clue you in to some situations to try and counter/react to. The last half of the game is probably pointless though, yea.

Regarding champion focus, if you're going to focus on just a couple champs for each role, be really careful whom you pick. Your bro likes Thresh but Thresh is really contested/banned right now so a safer main would be Leonna or Sona (or Nami but Nami is hard). Each role tends to have contested/banned champs and mastering them just leaves you high and dry when it comes to ranked. You probably want to avoid Malph/Amumu/Blitz, for example~ A lot of those players that play 1 or 2 champions and get Diamond or Challenger play off-beat ones, like that EU guy who got challenger in like a week playing Fizz, or the Diamond 1 Warwick only guy, the Rengar only guy, etc. Hell I would be shocked if Warwick had 100 bans a month across all the League games, but that guy got Diamond 1 off him.

This goes in to the counter pick argument too. Counter-picking is only really useful if skills are presumed equal. If you are both equally skilled as each other and equally skilled at the champs as the other guy, then the one with the 'countering' champ will win. Otherwise, it's pretty much like any other match up. I beat a Yorick top as Teemo once, really badly too, which makes no goddamn sense but hell if it didn't happen. Champion pool matters but not enough to suggest it ruins ones' chances of getting ones' rank up.
 
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Lane counter picking outside of a very few specific match ups is not usually a big deal. Even when someone picks Malphite against my Tryndamere I'll still be able to farm and contribute late game I just won't be able to kill him. The real effective way of doing things is counter comping if the enemy team has very obvious intentions. For instance their first three picks being MF, Kennan, Sona. You most likely aren't beating them in a straight up team fight given close gold amounts. So you pick Jayce, Jana, ezreal (blue) and Rengar for instance. A team that can poke and disengage easily while Rengar split pushes and catches out lone people.

This is probably my number one pet peeve for solo queue. When your team has an obvious synergy going like the aforementioned poke comp and then your jungle picks J4, maokai, or Fiddle champs that fit best with an all in team composition. Instead of a nice Elise, Nasus, or Udyr that adds to the hit and run nature of your composition. It blows my mind when people literally pick their team in to a loss like that.
 

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
1,970
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I am certain i'll eventually climb in to the higher leagues but I still stand by the fact that luck plays a big part in it.
You're right. Luck does play a part in it.. assuming you're not good enough to climb out of the bracket yourself. Luck, that you get someone or multiple people on your team that can carry you out of the bracket.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
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You're right. Luck does play a part in it.. assuming you're not good enough to climb out of the bracket yourself. Luck, that you get someone or multiple people on your team that can carry you out of the bracket.
I know you are being snide but holy shit does luck ever play a part in it.

Silver 3 to silver 4...Fun times...
 

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
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I'm not being snide at all.

Every single game you go into is a 50/50 chance of winning. When 5 people win, 5 people *will* lose. Now, if you want to increase those chances of winning each game, you must be better than the other guys you are playing, pure and simple. Except, they have exactly the same opportunity to do the same. It's luck, as I say, when the number of people you are currently playing with are better than the bracket you are in, and luck that your opponents are either having a bad day, they had an argument in champ select and are off tilt, or just fucking terrible because they got a friend to boost them to that bracket.

The single defining element that you as a player contribute to this, is your own personal skill level and attitude. You can't always get teamed up with great, positive people, (just like you won't always be teamed up with shit cunts and trolls) but you sure as shit can work on being a great positive player and influence the game from there.
 

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
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I think the better way of saying that is "you have a 50/50 chance of being on the winning team."

The "Chance" of winning should take into account the actions and skills of everyone on your team which, when compared to an enemy, team isn't always 50/50.

I agree with the "you must be better" part, but in the case of this game it isn't as simple as "Feed your team, win the game". Sometimes that works, other times not so much. The concept relies on a closed environment where you are always fighting a team that is relatively similar in skill where both teams, as you said, have the same percentage chance to win. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

You regularly get cases where a duo queue comes into a game and one of the duo's is VERY skilled and the other is utter garbage. What happens when that garbage player, who rode in on the coattails of skilled players, decides to solo queue? The elo system doesn't look to see if they were carried, it just assess their ratios and places them in a match that they have NO business being in. In those cases the "chance to win" has already been kneecapped, you are now REQUIRED to be the skilled "duo" in order to meet the average.

Sure you could argue that the other team could have the same exact result as you did in matchmaking and they are carrying a baddie too. It is like you said, a 50/50 chance of being on the winning team.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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RE: Wizardhawk.
Looking over your lolking stats, just a few remarks:

For the most part youseemto be doing "well" (but in reality, you likely belong where you are).

  • Your KDAs aren't too bad really. It definitely looks like bronze level stuff when glancing over the KDAs for all your champs played, why I say this is because you have a ton of different champs played for only a few games each but have insane amount of kills+assist. You would not see such high numbers against better opponents. Mastering champs is necessary at higher levels. This shows that probably most of your games are clusterfucks with high amounts of kills+deaths involved. Probably very little structure going on in game.

    To combat this you may want to focus on champions that can win games early on their own. You seem to play AP mid a lot. From my experience this lane requires more teamwork to win then if you were a top-lane or ADC. APs take structures very slowly, mid lane is the hardest lane to take early, and roaming around the map to help other lanes would require your team to be semi-competent too.

    Your goal should be to focus on structures & objectives and end the game as quickly as possible. The longer the game goes, the lower chance of victory for your team. Show no mercy, dominate them, be aggressive.

    Consider focusing on Top, ADC or Jungle --
    • As a top laner you can sit in lane and continually push, focus on turrets & inhibs. At bronze level you can go with near anyone and do this, you just have to win your lane. Play champions that suit your play style. Some common split pushers would be Tryndamere, Aatrox, Shen, Teemo & Singed but for a more balanced champ pool you might want to consider Jayce, Elise, Renekton, Jax and Darius, too.
    • ADC are meant to win games on their own, its why they are a "carry". In Late game you are the key to winning team fights, you burst structures down faster than anyone. In Bronze you should be able to dominate the enemy ADC. Supports normally carry bottom lane but if you are a good ADC in Bronze you can absolutely destroy them. The bonus with being an ADC is that you can get double kills easily in Bronze since you will be fighting a bad Support & ADC. Whenever I would get super-fed I would just keep pushing with my support. I've had so many games where the enemy ADC and/or Support would rage quit because I'd start 5-0 or something in the first 10 mins. The reason I've migrated from ADC is that higher ranked games become much harder and Supports actually carry the lane. It's a real gamble trying to get competent supports that have synergy with your play style. Most bronze players don't even like to support so you can easily take advantage of this and farm them for gold.
    • Jungler can win games by counter jungling. You mentioned that you never counter jungle, you play passive. Fuck that. ALWAYS counter jungle at lower Elo. Nobody wards at bronze so there is no risk. Even in Gold I rarely ever NOT counter Jungle, it depends on the champ, too. Stealing buffs will get you ahead super far. If you manage to kill the enemy jungler while they are doing red, you've just gained a 2 level advantage on their jungler, plus denied their blue buff, plus made all your lanes safer due to less jungle presence. You can counter jungle many ways, there is the super-aggressive approach where you wait at their red until enemy is fighting it, let them get low health, then smite-steal red and proceed to killing them, this royally fucks them. There is the typical approach which is to just run over and steal their red asap then gank top or mid right after, thus denying them the buff but they still keep their life. Never be passive if you want to win. If you counter jungle effectively you've then made the game a 5v4 and it becomes so easy to win.
  • As I said originally, you have tons of champions played with very little games played on any of them. I see like 8 games played at the most on some champs. This is pitiful tbh. You haven't gained a decent amount of knowledge with any of them. 8 games is practically an introduction. You've hardly experienced many different matchups, you probably lack the mechanics to execute skills properly & efficiently. Once you master a champion the mechanics should be 2nd nature, you just execute things without thinking about it. One such example from my own play is with MF, I have over 500 games played with her. The AA-->Q-->AA combo is a mechanic that is necessary to know and I execute it damn near every time I use my Q. The burst damage catches so many players off-guard because they aren't expecting to take 3 hits in such quick succession. When I started LoL I didn't even know what "resetting Autoattacks" meant, and then learning MF and how to play ADC in general took precedence before I even figured this mechanic out. Skills reset autoattacks on many champions and the timing is slightly different on all of them, it takes a bit of playing to get a grasp for the animations and autoattacks. There is a lot of nitty-gritty shit that would give the edge to really dominate opponents. Much of it revolves around timings, animations, etc. Another mechanic is Run-->AA-->Run, for kiting purposes or last hitting. You want to execute this in quick succession to keep maximum distance, you can use Attack Move (Shift+Right Click) or you can just click like normal but one thing to note is that you can easily cancel your auto attack if you click to move again too early. This could lead to missing last hits or even allowing an enemy to avoid death. Knowing the auto-attack animation timings are key for avoiding this. TL;DR: Focus on 1 champion first, play at least 50 games with that champion, maybe more if you are progressing well, then add another to the arsenal. I have over 500 games with MF, over 200 games with Akali, ~80 with Kha Zix, ~70 with Diana, and a bunch of champs with ~50 games played.

  • Stop being stubborn. Take Flash. You are not "special". There isn't something you know that other players don't. Ghost only goes so far. Flash is better in the majority of instances. There are some champions you do take Ghost: Mostly bruisers & top laners (Tryn/Aatrox/Olaf/Singed) sometimes junglers (Hecarim/Shyvana), but most of the time you take Flash. Ghost is great if you are a champion that can already bypass walls, all of the above champions can (except Olaf & Singed). If you can't bypass walls, you take flash. If you are a squishy target, you take flash. It's just that simple. Learn it, love it, stop being stubborn. Do not take Ghost AND Flash, that's just stupid. Either take ignite, barrier or cleanse as your other summoner spell.
  • You are bad. You probably deserve to be in Bronze. It is clear you have no dedication to the game, you play ranked like it is normals. You want to win, but you don't take steps to help you win. You pick whatever champ fancies you at the time. 170 ranked games is respectable but you have at most, 8 games played with any individual champion. Your mechanics are going to be very bad. You are also stubborn and you seem to think you know more than anyone else. You definitely aren't a gold level player. You could probably succeed in the lower Silver tiers, your stats aren't terrible but mainly because you play bronze games that go to late game practically every time. Clearly you do not know what objectives are. There is a ton for you to learn. Less arrogance is key.