Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

popsicledeath · Jan 4, 2016

Cad_sl said:
From the documentary, it looks like the Averys were completely removed from the salvage yard for 8 days while the search took place. I'm not really aware of any reason they were allowed to do this. I've never been there when a search warrant was executed, but I've been there shortly after, and the cops allowed me to walk around and just told me not to interfere with the search. Anybody know on what basis they removed them from their homes for 8 days?

Because reasons, and 'Murica!

I wonder at the reason provided too, because at some point there had to be a reason on the search warrant or motion filed and a judge who signed it (if anyone wants too look it up, I'm not quite that motivated). My guess is it's bullshit that was maybe halfway believable at the time when the DA was spinning scary tales in press conferences, but in retrospect is probably pretty suspect.

The Sheriff sure went to great lengths to control the salvage yard and alleged crime scene, while at the same time doing a shitty job of documenting and preserving it. That inconsistency is as big a head scratcher as the assertions that make Avery look like a genius at some points and blithering buffoon at others. Doesn't match up.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

TJT_sl said:
He said she said "connections" don't mean shit.

Most reasonable people have a hard time believing that you can clean something so thoroughly (after hacking someone to death) as to leave no physical trace behind. Especially by a retard on a crime supposedly committed on a whim. Just read up on what is involved in professional crime scene cleanup with people using built to purpose setups. Then come back and tell me a retard in overalls and some bleach accomplished that.

Uh huh.

So then at least have the consistency to calleveryoneout who thinks he might be guilty.
And when certain details from 'he said she said' suspiciously match up, you don't just get to say 'nah, don't think so'

And she wasn't 'hacked to death'. Her throat was possibly cut, but apparently not even deep enough for her to lose consciousness. And even that comes from a witness that you don't even think is reliable

popsicledeath · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
This is what I was talking about earlier. You can still discuss the fact that Averymighthave actually done it. It's another layer to the story. Yes, I'm completely aware that the case is absurd... but why does the discussion have to stop there? If he did it, yet some evidence was planted, why can't we discuss evidence that doesn'tseemlike it was planted? Why can some of the conversations between some of the playersbeforethe investigators got involved that seem like pretty strange coincidences not be discussed? Afterall, if I think he did it, I better have a fucking reason why other than 'just because'. Whether Avery did it is insignificant?? No, it isn't. You clowns are the ones who just want to regurgitate what you watched and not add anything to the discussion. And worse yet, you seem to be totally cool with people who think he might've done it, just as long as they don't say why they might think that. Then you have dickholes like popsiclewhatshisface who refutes what I say with crazy 'the cops did it' lunacy, but when I call him on it, he says 'I was just hypothesizing in response to what you said. I don't actually believe that'. So apparently he's allowed to make hypotheses about it (ones he doesn't have the balls to defend) as long as it points to Avery being innocent. You guys aren't interested in actual discussion. And I seem to have whipped you up into a sweaty, frothy mess because of it

Keep calling everyone else clowns. Like literally you've called everyone but yourself and your own opinions idiots and absurd.

The problem is the documentary was about due process and a trial and presumed innocence. The documentary wasn't an episode of NCIS trying to solve the crime. Naturally, the followup discussions have been about the main topics of the documentary. You and that jury seem to be the only people who think it's your job to solve the case and determine God's truth.

You're literally adding nothing to an otherwise compelling discussion. You still can't understand someone proposing a simple hypothetical to discount and explain your bullshit theories. You think someone saying 'or it happened this way' is a fucking declaration on the facts they believe are divine truths. You're not interesting, not right, not funny. And on top of all that you repeatedly miss the point of the documentary, this discussion, and people telling you to shut your cunt mouth because you're embarrassing yourself.

popsicledeath · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
So then at least have the consistency to calleveryoneout who thinks he might be guilty.

The difference is sane people are saying: I think he may be guilty, but there was certainly reasonable doubt demonstrated in the documentary this thread is about that I'll discuss.

And you're saying: No way he's innocent, the evidence and reasons!!!

TJT · Jan 4, 2016

Dude, this is what you are saying.

So two people claim to have seen SA after he had maybe used bleach to do something for some reason. You are then equating this to factual evidence and then projecting that it must have been to spotlessly clean up the murder scene(s) of all biological evidence. While ignoring the concept that this same idiotic projection can be shot down by any other idiotic projection that it was (insert any reason for using bleach or chemicals) on a grimy ass junkyard full of people who work with their hands and get filthy all day.

This is the extent of all of your stupid theories.

Then you wonder why people think you're an idiot.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

popsicledeath_sl said:
Keep calling everyone else clowns. Like literally you've called everyone but yourself and your own opinions idiots and absurd.

Ya, nowhere has anyone said that to me

The problem is the documentary was about due process and a trial and presumed innocence. The documentary wasn't an episode of NCIS trying to solve the crime. Naturally, the followup discussions have been about the main topics of the documentary. You and that jury seem to be the only people who think it's your job to solve the case and determine God's truth.

So first off, you think god is real, so that says a lot.
The documentary was about a murder and the case that followed.Yesit was about how poorly the case was handled, but that doesn't mean that is the only thing that's allowed to be discussed about the case. You should be able to break out of the narrative of the documentary a little bit without your pussy drying up. Or am I supposed to make a different thread?

You're literally adding nothing to an otherwise compelling discussion. You still can't understand someone proposing a simple hypothetical to discount and explain your bullshit theories. You think someone saying 'or it happened this way' is a fucking declaration on the facts they believe are divine truths. You're not interesting, not right, not funny. And on top of all that you repeatedly miss the point of the documentary, this discussion, and people telling you to shut your cunt mouth because you're embarrassing yourself.

What compelling discussion? Repeating what the documentary was about and saying "that's terrible!". Ya, real compelling. I'm not claiming toknowwhat happened. I'm also positing possible scenarios where some of the evidence can make sense. But you don't seem to understand that. You've only got the capacity to understand your own hypotheticals and as soon as I make one, you cry foul and claim I'm making absolute declarations.I'M ALSO SAYING 'OR IT HAPPENED THIS WAY' MORON.I've actually added to the discussion, but you guys have repeatedly refused to reference anything specific; only these sweeping statements about me being retarded.

Khane · Jan 4, 2016

If you can even believe the testimony, which was obtained by the same 2 detectives who have clearly shown they don't care about the truth, just what they're interested in hearing.

Anything presented as evidence by that police department and DA is suspect. You can't trust any of it.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

popsicledeath_sl said:
The difference is sane people are saying: I think he may be guilty, but there was certainly reasonable doubt demonstrated in the documentary this thread is about that I'll discuss.

And you're saying: No way he's innocent, the evidence and reasons!!!

You dumb fuck. I said I THINK he's probably guilty and here's why. Yes, there was reasonable doubt and for that reason, he should've been declared not guilty. I'm not the goddamn court system. I'm allowed to discuss why I think he's guilty short of a reasonable doubt. Again, do you think OJ is guilty?

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

Khane_sl said:
If you can even believe the testimony, which was obtained by the same 2 detectives who have clearly shown they don't care about the truth, just what they're interested in hearing.

Anything presented as evidence by that police department and DA is suspect. You can't trust any of it.

At least you're specifically referencing what I've said, so thanks for that.

The statements about the concrete and hiding a body by the cousin to the counselor and the statement from Dassey's Mom about the bleach seem to have come early in the investigation and independent of the shady investigators. The cousin volunteered info to the counselor and I don't believe the mother would just come out of nowhere and say her son cleaned the garage floor and got bleach on his pants. These two parts of independent stories seem to match up to something happening in the garage. I'm open to being wrong about it

Khane · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
At least you're specifically referencing what I've said, so thanks for that.

The statements about the concrete and hiding a body by the cousin to the counselor and the statement from Dassey's Mom about the bleach seem to have come early in the investigation and independent of the shady investigators. The cousin volunteered info to the counselor and I don't believe the mother would just come out of nowhere and say her son cleaned the garage floor and got bleach on his pants. These two parts of independent stories seem to match up to something happening in the garage. I'm open to being wrong about it

Who interviewed these people and took their statements?

Khane · Jan 4, 2016

By the way does anyone know how the documentary makers got video of the dassey/SA interviews conducted by Manitowoc's best and brightest? I just can't imagine them handing that over. Is it public record or something?

Cad · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
At least you're specifically referencing what I've said, so thanks for that.

The statements about the concrete and hiding a body by the cousin to the counselor and the statement from Dassey's Mom about the bleach seem to have come early in the investigation and independent of the shady investigators. The cousin volunteered info to the counselor and I don't believe the mother would just come out of nowhere and say her son cleaned the garage floor and got bleach on his pants. These two parts of independent stories seem to match up to something happening in the garage. I'm open to being wrong about it

I wouldn't put too much stock in what a school counselor and retarded Avery cousins say in any case, even if I thought it was 100% accurately reported.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

Khane_sl said:
Who interviewed these people and took their statements?

The school counselor gave the statement about what the cousin had said.
I admittedly am having trouble finding exactly who the mother spoke to.
But even if it was the trial investigators, it seems a bit outlandish to suggest that they were literally just telling everyone to say the parts of the story they wanted to hear.

Adebisi · Jan 4, 2016

Jive's already been schlonged.

No need to reply to him anymore.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

Cad_sl said:
I wouldn't put too much stock in what a school counselor and retarded Avery cousins say in any case, even if I thought it was 100% accurately reported.

But when both stories seem to line up in a very specific way, something might be there. That's my only point

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

Barraco Bisi_sl said:
Jive's already been schlonged.

No need to reply to him anymore.

Barraco Bisi, you break my heart.

Cad · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
But when both stories seem to line up in a very specific way, something might be there. That's my only point

Anything is possible. It's entirely possible SA did it.

But the circumstances to me just don't seem right. This guy has never been violent towards anybody. Running his dumbass cousin off the road 20 years prior is the only thing, and he didn't touch her even then. The cat thing is kinda fucked up but these are some backwoods rednecks we're talking about.

This guy who has never been violent towards anybody, is right in the middle of depositions that are blowing his case wide open, likely to win millions. He talks to his gf on the phone TWICE that day, both these calls are recorded, both before and after the murder of TH was supposed to take place. Guy is calm as can be, talking about the future and how he can't wait for her to be home and they're talking engagement and shit.

This guy, in the middle of all that, decides to murder some random woman. For no reason.

That story just doesn't make sense.

Jive Turkey · Jan 4, 2016

Cad_sl said:
Anything is possible. It's entirely possible SA did it.

But the circumstances to me just don't seem right. This guy has never been violent towards anybody. Running his dumbass cousin off the road 20 years prior is the only thing, and he didn't touch her even then. The cat thing is kinda fucked up but these are some backwoods rednecks we're talking about.

This guy who has never been violent towards anybody, is right in the middle of depositions that are blowing his case wide open, likely to win millions. He talks to his gf on the phone TWICE that day, both these calls are recorded, both before and after the murder of TH was supposed to take place. Guy is calm as can be, talking about the future and how he can't wait for her to be home and they're talking engagement and shit.

This guy, in the middle of all that, decides to murder some random woman. For no reason.

That story just doesn't make sense.

Completely reasonable. Although I might say the kind of person to commit a rape/murder maybe doesn't possess the same reasoning skills as your average citizen. There have been people in much better circumstances than Avery who have committed even more heinous crimes. Rapist and murderers - in most cases - have demonstrably different brains than you or I.

Adebisi · Jan 4, 2016

Log In - The New York Times

Old article. Yeeesh

Ms. Dookhan pleaded guilty in 2013 to 27 counts, including perjury, obstruction of justice and tampering with evidence, and was sentenced to three to five years in prison plus two years of probation. Prosecutors said that during her nine years at a drug lab in Boston, where she processed drug samples seized from suspects, Ms. Dookhan failed to properly test samples before declaring them positive, mixed up samples and forged signatures and lied about her credentials. Ms. Dookhan's lawyer said she was trying to be the best chemist on staff.

More than 300 people were released from prison when their convictions were voided because of the tainted evidence.

It's nasty to think about the many guilty people that were also released.

Cad · Jan 4, 2016

Jive Turkey_sl said:
Completely reasonable. Although I might say the kind of person to commit a rape/murder maybe doesn't possess the same reasoning skills as your average citizen. There have been people in much better circumstances than Avery who have committed even more heinous crimes. Rapist and murderers - in most cases - have demonstrably different brains than you or I.

Yea but I think to up and murder a random is a step that takes some time. The type of guys you see preying on random women seem different. History of violence, etc. I mean sure he could have done it, but I don't think it happened the way the prosecution said, and the investigation was shit-show level. At the end of the day we will probably never know what happened that day due to the actions of the police.

Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

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