Making a Murderer (Netflix) - New info

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Semisus

Molten Core Raider
71
82
i have no idea if they are guilty or not but after watching how a needle was inserted into the blood vial , how the defense lawyers acted and how they got their confession from the 16 year mindly retarted kid , atleast they could get a independent lab to run the blood and have a new trial
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,741
9,162
I found this interesting regarding the timing of the blocked and unblocked phone calls Avery made to Halbach on the day she was murdered

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 - both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up.so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."


Again, doesn't directly prove anything, but is definitely a bit suspicious.

Here's the article it's from. There's some stuff in there that seems a bit flimsy though. Even if ballistics matched the bullet to Avery's gun, that doesn't prove it wasn't planted. I imagine there are probably spent bullets and casings all around that property.

http://www.people.com/article/steven...t-key-evidence
 

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
25,888
50,919
I found this interesting regarding the timing of the blocked and unblocked phone calls Avery made to Halbach on the day she was murdered

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 - both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up.so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."


Again, doesn't directly prove anything, but is definitely a bit suspicious.
That only makes sense if you use nonexistent evidence to assume he did it, and then say, "does this fact fit within the imaginary narrative that hasn't been proven?" and ok, it might. That theory takes a lot of wild supposition though.
 

Jive Turkey

Karen
6,741
9,162
That only makes sense if you use nonexistent evidence to assume he did it, and then say, "does this fact fit within the imaginary narrative that hasn't been proven?" and ok, it might. That theory takes a lot of wild supposition though.
But there were people who did see her at the house taking pictures, so she was there. Of course, the call could've just been "hey, you forgot to take a picture of x". It's more the blocked numbers before, then non-blocked afterward that make it stand out. Again, not exactly damning, but interesting none the less
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
<Gold Donor>
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Not very interesting. Maybe he was in a hurry when he called her back afterwards and forgot to bother with the *67. It's really not interesting or evidence of anything.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,630
14,378
The people involved in investigating this case coerced witnesses, put other witnesses under duress (Brendan Dassey), found evidence under suspicious circumstances, reported events they shouldn't have known about (license plate numbers), removed a family from their property for 8 days, publicly announced gruesome details on how Steven Avery killed this woman before it even went to trial (and didn't even bother using the word allegedly) thus damning him in the court of public opinion from the start, and still failed to put together any compelling narrative that could tie to any evidence they did find. All as part of an investigation they should have never even been allowed near due to conflicts of interest, to say the least.

And this all happened coincidentally right as depositions started involving his wrongful conviction where the man stood to make millions off the county in question.

Yet despite all the unbelievably unprofessional and downright suspect activity law enforcement took part in during this case, and the fact that we saw video of exactly how unethical the gathering of statements from Brendan Dassey was Jive still clings to the belief that these investigators can be trusted at all. The fact that you still cling to some form of trust in any evidence that was found or gathered through interviews by these people is astounding. Shamefully astounding, in fact.

This case should have been thrown out from the start and the DA and police forces involved admonished for their behavior and the general public should have been made aware of how incompetent (at best) or corrupt (at worst) their police force and prosecutors are.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Or am I supposed to make a different thread?
Yes. In the Rickshaw preferably.

Again, do you think OJ is guilty?
No. I think OJ was found Not Guilty by a jury of his peers. I do however believe he committed the crimes he was accused of.


I found this interesting regarding the timing of the blocked and unblocked phone calls Avery made to Halbach on the day she was murdered

"Phone records show three calls from Avery to Teresa's cell phone on Oct. 31," says Kratz. "One at 2:24 [p.m.], and one at 2:35 ? both calls Avery uses the *67 feature so Teresa doesn't know it him...both placed before she arrives.

"Then one last call at 4:35 p.m., without the *67 feature. Avery first believes he can simply say she never showed up?so tries to establish the alibi call after she's already been there, hence the 4:35 call. She will never answer of course, so he doesn't need the *67 feature for that last call."
Woah! That's some heavy evidence! Is that quote from when Kratz himself was testifying under oath or when he was blatantly lying to the public and/or jurors during his statements?

Again, this isn't evidence, nor even good conjecture. It's a proven liar, a diagnosed narcissist and slime-ball rapist who has been proven to spin tall tales and at best not deter questionable investigative pratices if not orchestrate them... and when there is plenty of solid evidence to discuss that may point to Avery's culpability you're going to quote some sensationalism by Kratz and tell us it's suspicious and interesting.

The only thing suspicious in that Kratz statement is anything that fucker says that isn't taken with a hypertension inducing grain of salt.

To repeat: the fact you're latching onto the flimsiest bullshit and taking the most sensationalized quotes and running with them again takes us back to the points that you lack critical thinking skills, seem to be an emotionally driven asshole with a judge-jury-executioner complex, and the kind of person that led to the Avery trial being such a glaring example of how the presumption of innocence is so easily shit upon and it being terrifying to ever be accused of anything with your so-called peers having control over your fate.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Not very interesting. Maybe he was in a hurry when he called her back afterwards and forgot to bother with the *67. It's really not interesting or evidence of anything.
I'm more inclined to believe he called her hoping she'd had a change of heart about the previous incident where he answered the door in a towel and after taking some pictures of a shitty van was in the mood for some hillbilly loving. Maybe he was even going to crank call her telling her he was going to rape her and come in her so hard it would come out her ears.

Still doesn't mean Avery killed her, nor that Kratz is at all credible, nor that what Kratz says is anywhere approaching evidence or even that good a story at this point considering all the other complete bullshit and lies he like to tell to drum up public outrage.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
Is this show a documentary? I thought it was more of a "what if" and speculation based on facts but not provable.
I would say despite all the hubub it's a pretty straightforward, unbias documentary on things like due process, presumption of innocence and reasonable doubt. People are in an uproar and emotionally invested and all the rest because that's what people do. They put a human face on things, think through them emotionally, and react. But it's basically just a bunch of testimony and interviews that all go back to those basic themes. Which is why it's absurd people are freaking out they didn't include certain bits of evidence. They included the things that were obviously related to raising reasonable doubt, because that was one of their points. They included stuff that eroded the presumption of innocence and then had people talk about that, because that's what the documentary was about. Etc. They didn't include some of the evidence that is straightforward and perhaps more damning because the documentary wasn't an attempt to re-try Avery. Leave that irony to the court of public opinion after having seen the documentary.
 

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
29,948
29,763
That's exactly what this documentary does. Which is precisely what a "what if" is all about. So to answer your question it's both, as many documentaries tend to be.
You got in before my edit.

They don't present all the information and don't present it all on purpose. To get people talking. To get people to watch. It's damn marketing.

The point is people are signing petitions based on this "documentary" with only part of the information. People are freaking out all over the place. Netflix just gets paid.

THAT should be a documentary, how much money Netflix gets from this by only giving you part of the information so you become outraged and tell your friends to watch it and they tell their friends and then more people sign up for Netflix and then you win awards and more people sign up and more famous people take you serious as makers of original content and then they sign on for new shows that make you even more money.

All because you told a portion of the possible truth.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
27,570
43,954
I haven't watched it, but I've followed the thread. From the accounts provided it seems like Avery could (did?) kill her, the cops were incompetent and had nothing concrete or fucked it up and so they planted evidence to secure a conviction to make a lawsuit go away? That about right?
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,630
14,378
I haven't watched it, but I've followed the thread. From the accounts provided it seems like Avery could (did?) kill her, the cops were incompetent and had nothing concrete or fucked it up and so they planted evidence to secure a conviction to make a lawsuit go away? That about right?
Yes, though calling the investigators incompetent is going very easy on them.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,630
14,378
You got in before my edit.

They don't present all the information and don't present it all on purpose. To get people talking. To get people to watch. It's damn marketing.

The point is people are signing petitions based on this "documentary" with only part of the information. People are freaking out all over the place. Netflix just gets paid.

THAT should be a documentary, how much money Netflix gets from this by only giving you part of the information so you become outraged and tell your friends to watch it and they tell their friends and then more people sign up for Netflix and then you win awards and more people sign up and more famous people take you serious as makers of original content and then they sign on for new shows that make you even more money.

All because you told a portion of the possible truth.
The documentary is biased insofar as the creators tried to get the other side of the story but everyone on the other side of the story declined to participate. It's not biased (in my opinion) beyond that and that's through no fault of their own.
 

popsicledeath

Potato del Grande
7,547
11,831
You got in before my edit.

They don't present all the information and don't present it all on purpose. To get people talking. To get people to watch. It's damn marketing.

The point is people are signing petitions based on this "documentary" with only part of the information. People are freaking out all over the place. Netflix just gets paid.

THAT should be a documentary, how much money Netflix gets from this by only giving you part of the information so you become outraged and tell your friends to watch it and they tell their friends and then more people sign up for Netflix and then you win awards and more people sign up and more famous people take you serious as makers of original content and then they sign on for new shows that make you even more money.

All because you told a portion of the possible truth.
I don't think they were making a documentary about the truth or seeking to re-try Avery or even seeking to manipulate/withhold the so-called truth to drum up public outcry hoping to get paid. They were making a documentary about injustice and shenanigans in our legal system... so they showed stuff that featured injustice and shenanigans in our legal system. At its core I don't think the actual documentary is nearly as bias or interesting as people are making it out to be. In fact, I find it's ironic that the type of public outcry of overwhelming support for Avery is cringe-worthy to the film-makers since it was exactly that sort of court-of-public-opinion BS and it's power to undermine what is fair and just that they were in part seeking to highlight in the first place.

I think the reaction they were seeking was more that we need to really take a closer look at what we call justice in this country, not people signing petitions for Thanks Obama to pardon him.

In fact, I don't think the film makers or even Avery's defense lawyers really give a shit if Avery spends the rest of his life in jail, only that he gets as fair trial. And the trial didn't seem fair. So they documented the ways in which it wasn't. I dunno, I find all the talk of motive and bias in the documentary to be pretty stupid and missing the point entirely. But, people gonna people.
 

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
<Gold Donor>
29,058
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You got in before my edit.

They don't present all the information and don't present it all on purpose. To get people talking. To get people to watch. It's damn marketing.

The point is people are signing petitions based on this "documentary" with only part of the information. People are freaking out all over the place. Netflix just gets paid.

THAT should be a documentary, how much money Netflix gets from this by only giving you part of the information so you become outraged and tell your friends to watch it and they tell their friends and then more people sign up for Netflix and then you win awards and more people sign up and more famous people take you serious as makers of original content and then they sign on for new shows that make you even more money.

All because you told a portion of the possible truth.
You should probably watch it before talking about what it is or isn't.