Man of Steel

Caliane

Caliane

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grumblethorn_sl said:
I felt like the optimism and hope of superman was still at the core of the movie, and a different take on how that is presented. Caliane is right in that superman's powers and core identity reflected the times and media he is portrayed in. Hardly fucking batman though.
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was just using that as an example

Character=characterization.
Character=/=name.

If you change the characterization, you change the character.
Changing the name, doesn't.

A parallel to this might be the Elite/Authority story.

Superman vs the elite, or Whats so funny about Truth, Justice and The American way, was a direct response to The Authority. which is a JLA that "does what needs to be done."
The Authority will murder you, murder god, remove any political figure from power that threatens freedom, or global safety, etc.
The author of Whats so funny, didn't really get the Authority.. or he only read the chapters, where they were attacked and replaced by a corporate run group, which were the racist, corrupt group just like The Elite..
So, he wrote this story about how this hard edge grim, "real" team was flawed, and the problems with it. The story ended up pretty hollow however, when he missed the characterization of the Elite/Authority. He made them criminals, etc. Granted he didn't use the Name either.... But it was a clear attempt to reference them.
Man of steel neither acted like superman, and wasn't called it... (yes, once)

Superman is not a gun. And Superman not changing in spite of popular opinion is very much part of his character. That is literally what Kingdom Come, and whats so funny are about.
2 of the most famous books on him, are about him holding onto his virtues, while the world gets all grimdark in the 90s, with Spawn, Authority, etc. That is why this is a problem.
 
Xeldar

Xeldar

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The fact that superman neckbeards and critics are peeved by the grimy atmosphere of Man of Steel and I LOVED it LOOOVVVEEED this movie just makes me love it more. Critic tears are delicious.

Snyder needs to direct a Mortal Kombat reboot, stat.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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it was poorly shot, written and edited as well, on a simply technical level. you are a bad person.

Characters that exist purely for exposition. speech after speech telling us how great Supes is going to be, and never showing.

I would be ok with a Snyder MK though, probably.
 
Valishar

Valishar

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"Really the basis for Batman for me is: Batman always fights death, Superman always fights the impossible." - Grant Morrison.

Basically, the thing about Superman is that if you give him something impossible, like lets say the end of the movie where Zod is about to kill that family with heat vision and Superman has to stop him some way without killing him... Superman does the impossible. You give him a moral choice between bad and worse, he finds a third way even though that way is impossible. That was a pretty big betrayal of the character in my opinion making him kill Zod especially since all it took was for him to put his hand in front of Zod's eyes.
 
B

Beef Supreme_sl

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valishar_sl said:
"Really the basis for Batman for me is: Batman always fights death, Superman always fights the impossible." - Grant Morrison.

Basically, the thing about Superman is that if you give him something impossible, like lets say the end of the movie where Zod is about to kill that family with heat vision and Superman has to stop him some way without killing him... Superman does the impossible. You give him a moral choice between bad and worse, he finds a third way even though that way is impossible. That was a pretty big betrayal of the character in my opinion making him kill Zod especially since all it took was for him to put his hand in front of Zod's eyes.
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That's fine for comics, but when a seminal character is being re-imagined in a different form, ie comic to movie, some things don't make the migration. I am fine with Superman's actions re Zod, because I've seen Superman "do the impossible" so many fucking times, it's beyond cliche. Plus, this isn't the Howdy Doody Superman of yore, it's a NEW one. Just like Bale's Batman, RDJ's Ironman, etc; I don't go into a theatre looking for a 1:1.

Remember the 'sperg rage when it was revealed that the X-Men wouldn't be wearing their blue n yellow skivvies?
 
H

Hootie

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Xeldar_sl said:
The fact that superman neckbeards and critics are peeved by the grimy atmosphere of Man of Steel and I LOVED it LOOOVVVEEED this movie just makes me love it more. Critic tears are delicious.

Snyder needs to direct a Mortal Kombat reboot, stat.
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You are wrong, some of us were ready for a more gritty Superman who didn't mind getting his hands dirty. The script just sucks. You can call it a great movie if you want, but i won't be watching it again.
That's how i rate a movie. Its boring with no great lines and characters i do not care about. If this comes on cable its the kind of movie i would fast foward to the fight with the chick. Kind of like how i only watch the staircase scene in Matrix Reloaded.

Watchmen was far, far superior to this shitty movie.
 
Frenzied Wombat

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^ Pretty much

I personally didn't mind the fact that they wanted a "grittier" Superman either. I also don't mind that he ended up having to kill Zod. I actually don't even mind that he ended up having to raze Metropolis. What I DO mind is that the aforementioned potential gripes, along with others such as the Pa Kent tornado scene and the Supes/Lois kiss (amongst many others) become laughably unrealistic without a STORY and DIALOGUE to not only grant them greater context, but also allow for such things as character empathy. Seriously, I've been more affected by SPCA commercials than I was when Pa Kent bit the bullet. When someone dies in a movie it isn't a good sign when you end up snort laughing. Seriously, the movie was probably 90% special effects and 10% character interaction and it needed to be at least 60/40.
 
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Arakkis

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Caliane_sl said:
it was poorly shot, written and edited as well, on a simply technical level. you are a bad person.

Characters that exist purely for exposition. speech after speech telling us how great Supes is going to be, and never showing.

I would be ok with a Snyder MK though, probably.
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What kind of douchey hipster shit is this? Are you wearing a v-neck and scarf right now?
 
Kirun

Kirun

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People wholovedthis movie aren't very large Superman fans. They think that the character is "vanilla" and a "boy scout". They don't quite comprehend what he represents, I don't think.
 
Shonuff

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Tuco_sl said:
nope. I loved this movie.
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There was nothing to love about this movie, unless you love hours and hours of mindless action. I love action movies, but about half way through, I said to myself it was too much and that I was bored.
 
TrollfaceDeux

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went out, took a piss, light a cigarette, reserved next week's movie and came back to finish this movie. didn't miss a thing in the end.
 
Caliane

Caliane

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Arakkis_sl said:
What kind of douchey hipster shit is this? Are you wearing a v-neck and scarf right now?
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Consider this.

We are told time and time again in this movie, clark is destined for greatness. lead them into the sun. etc. speech after speech.
yet... If Clark had just stayed on the farm like Jonathan asked, none of this would have happened. All of the conflict, the invasion, all occurred because of Clarks actions. This was not Superman bringing salvation to us. it was him and his father dooming us. (and again, at no point apologizes for) And then when Zod shows up. Superman refusing Zod, caused Zod to attack. we have to guess that Zod would have betrayed us, and him. but considering Lois was still alive when Superman was unconscious, we don't really have any reason to believe he was lying, or she would have been killed immediately. Its entirely possible if Clark said ok, ill go with you. They would have taken him and went to another planet to terraform. (granted if they did have a scene that made it clear, Zod was lying, then that would probably be entirely too cliche. but really as it stands, clark is made out to be a giant asshole.)

Your movie has a serious problem if the hero can solve everything, by doing nothing.
 
T

taimaishoo

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Caliane_sl said:
Consider this.

If Clark had just stayed on the farm like Jonathan asked, none of this would have happened.
Your movie has a serious problem if the hero can solve everything, by doing nothing.
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Jonathan also told him, "I have to believe you were sent here for a reason, and even if it takes the rest of your life, you owe it to yourself to find out what that reason is". Kind of hard to do that if you never leave the farm.

Caliane_sl said:
Consider this.
They would have taken him and went to another planet to terraform. (granted if they did have a scene that made it clear, Zod was lying, then that would probably be entirely too cliche. but really as it stands, clark is made out to be a giant asshole.)
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Did you not see the scene where Clark was unconscious and Zod told him he was going to kill everyone and use earth to create a new Krypton?
 
Famm

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Damn I love RLM, that episode had to have been better than paying $12 plus concessions for some overblown special effects extravaganza.
 
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