Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Cad · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
But the arguments aren't influencing her, as you say, and they aren't improving your life, or your kid's life. What's the endgame here?

Deathwing the arguments aren't influencing her so you should just be a pussy and accept it. Game over I guess. Oh well, you tried buddy. Next life things will be different!

LachiusTZ · Oct 4, 2019

Deathwing said:
I disagree on this. If my wife said one of my friends is a cunt, I'd have a long hard think as to why I was friends with that person.

Or at a minimum, not have those things over lap. And if cunt friends influence bled into home life, do you value home life or cunt friends more?

Has this in a prior relationship. I dropped pal for woman because I values her happiness more than hanging out with pal.

Edit:. Should include that relationship did not last. Buddy and I are still friends. And he is a complete piece of shit, tbh. He understood why I cut him out, held no grudge, because he knows he is a piece of shit. Lol

He asked my current wife for tit pics, safe to say he will never be invited to my home, my wife has him blocked on all social media, family will never visit him. But we grab a beer and go shoot every time I'm back home. Lol

I just accept him for what he is

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Cad said:
Deathwing the arguments aren't influencing her so you should just be a pussy and accept it. Game over I guess. Oh well, you tried buddy. Next life things will be different!

Is said the opposite of that, really. But is your opinion that if they just have enough prolonged fights that descend into "hurty words" and crying, she'll be won over?

Deathwing · Oct 4, 2019

The endgame is likely divorce if I'm being a completely pragmatic nonbiased observer. I want to feel like I'm making progress. Like I said, I got her to effectively admit that women are paid less because women make financially poor decisions, but I'm not convinced there aren't some cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics going on here just so the internal conclusion "women are paid less" can be maintained.

I know these fights are doing longterm damage. The reason I haven't pulled the trigger is because of my son. Instead of being around most of the time to guard against the dogmatic bullshit, I'll be absent at least 50% of the time.

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Deathwing said:
I disagree on this. If my wife said one of my friends is a cunt, I'd have a long hard think as to why I was friends with that person.

Did you do that, though? You didn't mention having any issues with the person beyond this pronoun shit. Everyone has people they put up with but don't necessarily like, and everyone has a line where that turns into something else.

idk man, if the fights are doing longterm damage, and you know that, I don't think you're helping your son by continuing that. If there's no other option, you have to do what's best for him.

Cad · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
Is said the opposite of that, really. But is your opinion that if they just have enough prolonged fights that descend into "hurty words" and crying, she'll be won over?

There's no other option in these arguments, because they aren't based on any logic or reason. They're based purely on emotion.

YOU. CAN. NOT. WIN. EMOTIONAL. ARGUMENTS.

Their "feelings" will not change. Your facts and logic will not make them "feel" any different.

Look at whats going on here. You "feel" that Deathwing is wrong. You're not listening to anything anybody is saying. You're just going "well he could just accept it and be happy with his family" over and over. Nothing about living his own life or being his own man is penetrating that estrogen-poisoned pussy ass brain of yours. There's no winning this.

He needs to decide if this is something he wants to put up with, because it's not going to change, or move on. I feel like I've said this already.

I'm sure you'll respond with "yea but what good does him starting arguments do for his family??" But you're just not getting it man.

If your wife allows it, take a minute and think about what I'm saying.

Deathwing · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
Did you do that, though? You didn't mention having any issues with the person beyond this pronoun shit. Everyone has people they put up with but don't necessarily like, and everyone has a line where that turns into something else.

No, the cunt part is hyperbole to emphasize the example. Let me try again.

If my wife said one of my friends is doing something stupid, I'd reconsider whether I support my friend's actions just because he's my friend.

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Cad said:
There's no other option in these arguments, because they aren't based on any logic or reason. They're based purely on emotion.

YOU. CAN. NOT. WIN. EMOTIONAL. ARGUMENTS.

Their "feelings" will not change. Your facts and logic will not make them "feel" any different.

Look at whats going on here. You "feel" that Deathwing is wrong. You're not listening to anything anybody is saying. You're just going "well he could just accept it and be happy with his family" over and over. Nothing about living his own life or being his own man is penetrating that estrogen-poisoned pussy ass brain of yours. There's no winning this.

He needs to decide if this is something he wants to put up with, because it's not going to change, or move on. I feel like I've said this already.

I'm sure you'll respond with "yea but what good does him starting arguments do for his family??" But you're just not getting it man.

If your wife allows it, take a minute and think about what I'm saying.

So, I didn't say any of that. I specifically said the opposite of most of it. I didn't say "he could just accept it" I said he needs to compromise. I specifically said I don't think he's wrong, I think his feelings are valid. You seem like you're getting feelings though. Careful Cad! They're not based in logic!

Cad · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
I didn't say "he could just accept it" I said he needs to compromise.

What do you think the difference in these two things is?

LachiusTZ · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
he needs to compromise.

Edit:. Fucking too slow on phone. Fuck you

Cad and your keyboard

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Cad said:
What do you think the difference in these two things is?

Compromise, generally, involves both sides of a debate recognizing the right of the other to have a certain position and working towards and agreement where they are able to function with minimal negative impact to the other.

Like I said, his feelings are valid, his views are valid. I said pretty early into this, if these views and arguments are that important to him, he should split and save his family (and himself) the grief. Otherwise, the only options are either compromise or just continue the status quo and live in misery.

Cad · Oct 4, 2019

chaos said:
See to me it sounds the opposite, like he's unwilling to bend on anything and expecting her to adapt in each of these instances. And each time she doesn't, he spirals into anger and bad feels. Again, only going off what he's put out there, she hasn't asked him to change his lifestyle or adapt a new way of thinking, or attacked him in any way. Maybe he knows differently, but on its face the shirt thing is really a nonissue. The pronoun thing, she has a friend who changed pronouns. For you and me, that's dumb and not a thing we understand or even care to, but is that what she was demanding of him? I don't think so, from what we were given. His singular focus on this "SJW-ism" issue has led to multi-hour fights with his wife that end with her in tears because, quote, "i said some hurty words."

I'm serious when I said that his feelings are important, if this stuff is that important to him that he's going to the mat over just discussions of SJW-tangential shit where she doesn't come out on his side or reason the way he wants her to, that's fine, that's valid. But the result is that (from what we know) it's turning their house into a miserable place, their marriage into a miserable thing, damaging their relationship, impacting his kid most likely. So... what's the game here? Keep escalating until she becomes the person he wants her to be? Or (more likely) until the relationship is so damaged that it just can't be reconciled and will be contentious forever? You did divorce shit didn't you? You know how this goes. Either he's going to have to come up with some way to have disagreements with her that don't end up in apocalyptic fights or he needs to just get out, otherwise everyone is just going to continue to suffer.

chaos said:
Compromise, generally, involves both sides of a debate recognizing the right of the other to have a certain position and working towards and agreement where they are able to function with minimal negative impact to the other.

Like I said, his feelings are valid, his views are valid. I said pretty early into this, if these views and arguments are that important to him, he should split and save his family (and himself) the grief. Otherwise, the only options are either compromise or just continue the status quo and live in misery.

Your above post is the exact opposite of "compromise". You say:

he's unwilling to bend on anything and expecting her to adapt in each of these instances. And each time she doesn't, he spirals into anger and bad feels. Again, only going off what he's put out there, she hasn't asked him to change his lifestyle or adapt a new way of thinking, or attacked him in any way.

You're really hitting her hard on the compromise there bro.

The pronoun thing, she has a friend who changed pronouns. For you and me, that's dumb and not a thing we understand or even care to, but is that what she was demanding of him? I don't think so, from what we were given. His singular focus on this "SJW-ism" issue has led to multi-hour fights with his wife that end with her in tears because, quote, "i said some hurty words."

She's not demanding anything of him, so she doesn't need to change. HE does. You're suggesting compromise here?

So... what's the game here? Keep escalating until she becomes the person he wants her to be? Or (more likely) until the relationship is so damaged that it just can't be reconciled and will be contentious forever?

He should accept it or game over, right? HE should stop escalating.

Not one fucking time have you mentioned anything SHE should do differently.

You didn't suggest compromise at all.

You suggested he bend over. Fuck that.

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Cad said:
Your above post is the exact opposite of "compromise". You say:

You're really hitting her hard on the compromise there bro.

She's not demanding anything of him, so she doesn't need to change. HE does. You're suggesting compromise here?

He should accept it or game over, right? HE should stop escalating.

Not one fucking time have you mentioned anything SHE should do differently.

You didn't suggest compromise at all.

You suggested he bend over. Fuck that.

I didn't suggest he "bend over". I suggested he find a way to compromise with his wife that doesn't involve berating her for having a differing opinion. Compromise involves her giving some as well, by definition, or it's just capitulation. I'm not posting for her. Deathwing is the one here, describing his actions and his relationship. He should be working with her to find things she could do differently in order to resolve their differences. From what he's posted, he's done this, but for whatever reason it isn't working and devolves into fighting and drama. So then what's the endgame? He's the one with the issues with her friends and views, if he wants to maintain his family then yeah, he has to put forth effort to get to some kind of resolution. If not, then what is being accomplished with the confrontation and fighting and shit? He says he doesn't want a divorce because divorce sucks, but also because he worries what will happen to him, as a person, if he gets a divorce. But what's happening now isn't good, either.

Picasso3 · Oct 4, 2019

Chaos is looking past the problem because fighting the ideological good fight and throwing ashtrays at each other for the next 30 years probably isn't the best way to go about it.

Sounds to me like irreconcilable differences.

Hoss · Oct 4, 2019

Again, it's not something you even need to pick a fight over. Just say no and move on to the next subject. Be sure to make her clarify everytime she uses the bullshit pronoun.

I would then start making jokes about it. "My personal pronoun is American Inventor dick. When you respect that I'll try to respect yours."

chaos · Oct 4, 2019

Hoss said:
Again, it's not something you even need to pick a fight over. Just say no and move on to the next subject. Be sure to make her clarify everytime she uses the bullshit pronoun.

I would then start making jokes about it. "My personal pronoun is American Inventor dick. When you respect that I'll try to respect yours."

Pretty much the TL;DR of my point, without all the being extra stuff. It doesn't have to be a fight. With the pronouns, it could have just been "i'm not going to do that". With the needlepoint, it could have just been "if it's important keep it, but I don't want it on my wall." With the shirt, it could have been "I don't want my kid wearing that shirt or any shirt with ideological messages". If the issue is the thing itself, there are ways to deal with the thing and maintain whatever ideological integrity he wants to maintain. But, as he made clear, the issue is more than just the thing

iannis · Oct 4, 2019

LachiusTZ said:
Or at a minimum, not have those things over lap. And if cunt friends influence bled into home life, do you value home life or cunt friends more?

Has this in a prior relationship. I dropped pal for woman because I values her happiness more than hanging out with pal.

Edit:. Should include that relationship did not last. Buddy and I are still friends. And he is a complete piece of shit, tbh. He understood why I cut him out, held no grudge, because he knows he is a piece of shit. Lol

He asked my current wife for tit pics, safe to say he will never be invited to my home, my wife has him blocked on all social media, family will never visit him. But we grab a beer and go shoot every time I'm back home. Lol

I just accept him for what he is

everyone needs a buddy like that. No salmon.

Hoss · Oct 4, 2019

iannis said:
everyone needs a buddy like that. No salmon.

I can do that for you. Send me your wife's number and i'll ask for a pic of her tits.

BrutulTM · Oct 4, 2019

Deathwing said:
I can disagree with people. They better have solid reasoning otherwise I'm going ignore their opinion and probably start the argument again the next time said opinion comes up.

I don't want a wife that thinks the Patriarchy is real or believes in the female wage gap is real. I've had to disprove the latter THREE times and I still don't have proof the last one stuck at all. She just morphed her reasoning to the real ones so she can continue believing women are paid less even though it means it's largely their own fault.

If she could present cogent, logical reason to use someone's preferred pronouns in a social setting(of course I'm using preferred pronouns at work), I would be happy to discuss that and consider compromise. For the last time, it's not that some of these arguments are petty, it's that her reasoning is propped up by a thin veneer of dogmatic bullshit. This isn't new but now I'm hyper-focused on it because I want my kid as far way from its influence as possible.

I can relate to this, but I've learned that it's not a reasonable expectation when dealing with human beings. If you are the type to deeply consider your beliefs and make a truly open minded decision based on facts and then are willing to change it based on new learning then you're one in a million. If you're honest with yourself you probably don't actually do this because there's not enough hours in the day to have a truly informed opinion on complex issues and if you align with an ideology then you definitely don't do it. Even most of the message board warriors around here aren't doing that. They start from their opinion and can make a pretty impressive argument but that's all they're doing. Most people don't even do that. Their opinions are based on their personality (which doesn't change) and their peers. Because of that, facts don't change their mind, and they will never react rationally because it's not their position that's being attacked, it's their identity. I believe Sam Harris actually did some research where they watched people's brains while they were confronted with "facts" that seemed to contradict their deeply held beliefs and their reaction looked similar to someone being attacked by a bear.

Assuming you actually are an exceptionally rational person, you might like it if everyone behaved that way, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment and zero real relationships if you make that a requirement. It also probably means you're an asshole.

Deathwing · Oct 4, 2019

BrutulTM said:
I can relate to this, but I've learned that it's not a reasonable expectation when dealing with human beings. If you are the type to deeply consider your beliefs and make a truly open minded decision based on facts and then are willing to change it based on new learning then you're one in a million. If you're honest with yourself you probably don't actually do this because there's not enough hours in the day to have a truly informed opinion on complex issues and if you align with an ideology then you definitely don't do it. Even most of the message board warriors around here aren't doing that. They start from their opinion and can make a pretty impressive argument but that's all they're doing. Most people don't even do that. Their opinions are based on their personality (which doesn't change) and their peers. Because of that, facts don't change their mind, and they will never react rationally because it's not their position that's being attacked, it's their identity. I believe Sam Harris actually did some research where they watched people's brains while they were confronted with "facts" that seemed to contradict their deeply held beliefs and their reaction looked similar to someone being attacked by a bear.

Assuming you actually are an exceptionally rational person, you might like it if everyone behaved that way, but you're setting yourself up for disappointment and zero real relationships if you make that a requirement. It also probably means you're an asshole.

No, I'm definitely not a unique snowflake. I realize the hypocrisy of expecting these requirements in others while likely failing them in some fashion myself. That realization, that introspection, is perhaps more accurately what I'm looking for in others. I'm much more forgiving of people that hold bullshit opinions if they realize they need to do something about it. Change is slow and hard and there aren't enough hours in the day, as you noted, to make real change in a short amount of time.

This is why I said I welcome confrontation. Some of my opinions are dumb and I need people to tell me that, repeatedly. It's going to suck, I'm going to get butthurt about it, but hopefully the message sinks in over time.

I'm probably still an asshole, regardless.

Search

Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Cad

scientia potentia est

LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

Deathwing

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

Cad

scientia potentia est

Deathwing

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

Cad

scientia potentia est

LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

Cad

scientia potentia est

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

Picasso3

Silver Baronet of the Realm

Hoss

Make America's Team Great Again

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor

iannis

Musty Nester

Hoss

Make America's Team Great Again

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

Deathwing