Izo
Tranny Chaser
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Marriage and the Power of Divorce
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Dabamf would be by far the most versed in psychology in this thread. If he says you can use hypnosis to implant ideas in criminals I don't see how it is far fetched to try and implant the idea that "Smoking is gross I should quit" or "Being a lard fuck is gross I should lose weight" is that far fetched. However my personal and unmerited beliefs still firmly state hypnosis is complete and utter bullshit.
Izo
Tranny Chaser
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This is kind of silly. None of you have studied hypnosis. The only person in the thread who has even studied fields related to hypnosis is Dabamf... and he admits to having done zero reading on the subject. There are empirical studies on the effectiveness of hypnosis, and they go back decades with more being done all the time. There are studies where people have their brains imaged while being hypnotized and there are effects on the brain that are not otherwise explainable. Professional athletes use hypnosis, the New York Jets trainer Bob Reese was a hypnotist. If you want to believe some folklore over data I'm not going to argue with you.
@Izo: I do not have a link to it, I have a hard copy. It was University of Iowa, 1992, by Frank Schmidt if you want to look for it. But there are countless examples. Here is a 2007 study that concluded hypnosis was twice as effective as other methods of quitting smoking. This one happened to be done by medical doctors, in case anyone is writing off hypnosis because it is done by psychologists. Not true in this case.
Hypnotherapy For Smoking Cessation Sees Strong Results -- ScienceDaily
@Izo: I do not have a link to it, I have a hard copy. It was University of Iowa, 1992, by Frank Schmidt if you want to look for it. But there are countless examples. Here is a 2007 study that concluded hypnosis was twice as effective as other methods of quitting smoking. This one happened to be done by medical doctors, in case anyone is writing off hypnosis because it is done by psychologists. Not true in this case.
Hypnotherapy For Smoking Cessation Sees Strong Results -- ScienceDaily
ZyyzYzzy
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That story (please get the actual paper) is misleading. Coronary vs Pulmonary for each of the 4 treatment groups isn't distinguished, which seems important to do since cessation rate was nearly 3x for Coronary opposed to Pulmanary diagnosis. Also a sample size of 67 is pretty meh.
Also I would like to see all the clinical data on the NRT vs Cold Turkey group. Pretty odd that NRT was lower than no treatment.
There isn't a public link to the paper I'm aware of. It is easy to find if you have access to university search engines though. But it is just one I grabbed because I'd read it, but my point is there are hundreds of similar studies all with positive results.
ZyyzYzzy
RIP USA
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As I said the article seems misleading and caution needs to be taken with any article over a paper.
Eidal
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Is this how you rationalize your failure? I consciously buy, prepare, and cook less food than I want every day of my life. I fucking love shit food, but if I want to be healthy and good looking, that is how I have to live. Similar to how I haven't purchased tobacco for six months, and I avoid buying a twelve pack because I'll drink it all. Anyone truly striving for self-improvement should at least be aware and wary of his addictions.
Don't mistake me; I splurge all the time -- but its calculated. I just ate a 1500+ calorie enormous sub for lunch... tonight my wife and I are having broccoli and fish.
This is what good-looking healthy strong adults do. That's why society pays us more, strangers trust us more, the opposite gender desires us more, and everyone likes us more.
I read the article linked above, and here is my main issue with it:
-Patients with a stronger desire to quit smoking will most likely choose the most comprehensive treatments (NRT + hypnotherapy or hypnotherapy). So, the study is likely confounded by the patients' own bias. I believe those most desperate to quit smoking would be willing to try something like hypnotherapy, so naturally, they chose to enroll themselves into those treatments.
-Patients were given a supply of NRT, but their usage of it was not monitored or enforced beyond weekly phone calls. So, patients that care less are probably more likely to choose the "simpler" options such as NRT or cold turkey, and I wouldn't be surprised if these patients were less likely to use their treatments as scheduled.
-As mentioned above, small sample size
-No information on factors that could influence this data such as age, gender, smoking habits (how many per day? For how long?), etc.
Those are the main impressions I got from a single, quick readthrough. Hopefully there is a paper out there will more details on the study design, but based on the information in that article, the study is flawed and the only conclusion you can draw is that hypnosis possibly merits further study. But to use that article as evidence that hyponisis "works" is very misleading, and in my opinion, untrue. If there is a well-designed RCT showing benefits of hyponosis then I may be less skeptical, but I haven't encountered (or, I admit, looked for) one.
As I understand it, patients were allowed to place themselves into their preferred treatment group. That's a terrible study design, and there is a reason RCTs are standard to provide any clinical evidence of a treatment's effectiveness. Off the top of my head, I can imagine the following issues:
-Patients with a stronger desire to quit smoking will most likely choose the most comprehensive treatments (NRT + hypnotherapy or hypnotherapy). So, the study is likely confounded by the patients' own bias. I believe those most desperate to quit smoking would be willing to try something like hypnotherapy, so naturally, they chose to enroll themselves into those treatments.
-Patients were given a supply of NRT, but their usage of it was not monitored or enforced beyond weekly phone calls. So, patients that care less are probably more likely to choose the "simpler" options such as NRT or cold turkey, and I wouldn't be surprised if these patients were less likely to use their treatments as scheduled.
-As mentioned above, small sample size
-No information on factors that could influence this data such as age, gender, smoking habits (how many per day? For how long?), etc.
Those are the main impressions I got from a single, quick readthrough. Hopefully there is a paper out there will more details on the study design, but based on the information in that article, the study is flawed and the only conclusion you can draw is that hypnosis possibly merits further study. But to use that article as evidence that hyponisis "works" is very misleading, and in my opinion, untrue. If there is a well-designed RCT showing benefits of hyponosis then I may be less skeptical, but I haven't encountered (or, I admit, looked for) one.
Springbok
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On one hand, I'm with themaster in saying those who say "no way, it has to be bullshit" have no grounds for doing so. If you are skeptical of the claim, find research or pick apart the research he provides, as some have done.
On the other hand, I'm sitting here quietly thinking he's picking poorly designed studies published in bad journals to support the claim, because I think by this point in my education and training I would have learned of hypnotherapy as an empirically supported treatment for something if it was. Just fyi, University of Iowa is not a credential for a study. Tons of hack researchers at all kinds of institutions. The journal it was published in is the best way to tell, in absence of any other info, if the methodology is sound.
I'm curious so I'm gonna do some searching soon to see what I find. Might take me a couple days. I said that last time about men being happier in marriage than women, but I got lazy on that one. This will be easier to find too.
It is a fact though that false memories can be implanted incredibly easily. There are experimental controlled designs using family members to talk about "that one time you got lost in the mall as a kid" and people will recreate the event in vivid detail when it never happened. I'm pretty sure that effect increases when under the effect of hypnosis, but I'm hazy on that one. At any rate, it is well accepted in psychology that the repressed memories movement mostly just uncovered fake memories, though some true memories may have come about as well
Also want to echo what pinch said. Randomization is an absolute requirement for treatment studies. No need to even read further. Any treatment study not using it, unless it is specifically counter-indicated, is useless. Also, not sure what journal that is (science daily journal? Never heard of it = crap).
On the other hand, I'm sitting here quietly thinking he's picking poorly designed studies published in bad journals to support the claim, because I think by this point in my education and training I would have learned of hypnotherapy as an empirically supported treatment for something if it was. Just fyi, University of Iowa is not a credential for a study. Tons of hack researchers at all kinds of institutions. The journal it was published in is the best way to tell, in absence of any other info, if the methodology is sound.
I'm curious so I'm gonna do some searching soon to see what I find. Might take me a couple days. I said that last time about men being happier in marriage than women, but I got lazy on that one. This will be easier to find too.
It is a fact though that false memories can be implanted incredibly easily. There are experimental controlled designs using family members to talk about "that one time you got lost in the mall as a kid" and people will recreate the event in vivid detail when it never happened. I'm pretty sure that effect increases when under the effect of hypnosis, but I'm hazy on that one. At any rate, it is well accepted in psychology that the repressed memories movement mostly just uncovered fake memories, though some true memories may have come about as well
Also want to echo what pinch said. Randomization is an absolute requirement for treatment studies. No need to even read further. Any treatment study not using it, unless it is specifically counter-indicated, is useless. Also, not sure what journal that is (science daily journal? Never heard of it = crap).
chaos
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Cracked has this whole podcast about how the foods we are eating are carefully crafted to be addictive, and how the long term success rate for weight loss is basically zero. idk. I lost a lot of weight and ended up gaining some back, working on getting it down again. But sure, I'm not where I was at. I can't think of anyone i know who has gone from fatty -> fit and maintained it. Certainly not a significant number of people.
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What did you do after losing the weight? I think maintenance is harder than loss. Pretty easy to brute force any eating surplus by just exercising even more. True, while you can do that while maintaining, your margins are much smaller. And you have to know how much extra food you ate and what amount of exercise that equals, or you might go into loss or gain.
Himeo
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That is just an article on it. The study was published in Chest Journal, which is the publication of the American College of Chest Physicians. Which has been around for about 80 years.
Also Dabamf, didn't you post multiple times at this point about how the kind of cognitive therapy you're learning isn't done by the vast majority of your profession, despite empirical data that it is superior in results? That if anyone wanted you'd help them find someone near them trained correctly who was using modern methods? Mostly because the theories aren't accepted despite the data? Hypnosis has a very similar problem. Just because something is supported by the data, just because it works, doesn't mean people accept it. As demonstrated by this thread, hypnosis has a real problem with its public image. Especially in the U.S. But the data is there, for anyone who wants to look at it.
Also Dabamf, didn't you post multiple times at this point about how the kind of cognitive therapy you're learning isn't done by the vast majority of your profession, despite empirical data that it is superior in results? That if anyone wanted you'd help them find someone near them trained correctly who was using modern methods? Mostly because the theories aren't accepted despite the data? Hypnosis has a very similar problem. Just because something is supported by the data, just because it works, doesn't mean people accept it. As demonstrated by this thread, hypnosis has a real problem with its public image. Especially in the U.S. But the data is there, for anyone who wants to look at it.