Marriage and the Power of Divorce

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Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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I've said (even to my wife) that if we ever divorced I'd never get married again. I don't really see the point of it. I'd say it's about having a partner for life or whatever, but there's nothing stopping two non-married people from doing that. My mom is a good example. She's been dating the same guy now for like 22 years? They have a house together and are essentially married, but without the tax benefits. And if they got tired of each other they could part ways relatively easily.
 
Khane

Khane

Got something right about marriage
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Elurin_sl said:
I've said (even to my wife) that if we ever divorced I'd never get married again. I don't really see the point of it. I'd say it's about having a partner for life or whatever, but there's nothing stopping two non-married people from doing that. My mom is a good example. She's been dating the same guy now for like 22 years? They have a house together and are essentially married, but without the tax benefits. And if they got tired of each other they could part ways relatively easily.
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Married people can part ways relatively easy too. They just typically don't choose to do so. A lot of that has to do with the stigma associated with divorce in society. "You guys are breaking up, that's terrible I liked you guys together what happened?" turns into "Whoa you guys are getting divorced? What did the mother fucker do? There better be a damn good reason for this"
 
Famm

Famm

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The only real reason for a man to marry is if he wants to raise kids. If you can find a good woman who was raised well and is family/home/parenting oriented in what she wants out of life. That's not always easy to do, but its definitely best for the kids and for you as a father. Other than that its a completely lopsided deal. Marriage is an outdated tradition which carries all the old fashioned expectations for men while holding women to none of the previous counterbalances. I really think many men don't even care much about having kids but it just happens by accident and/or they do it because its what she wants. Plenty of men do want kids, but way too many end up with a wrong/bad woman because of all the pressure to marry and the feeling like they can't let her get away. There's plenty of fish in the sea. Wait until you're older, wiser and richer. You need to learn what you want before you make such a committment and you probably won't really understand that until your mid thirties at least.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Khane_sl said:
Married people can part ways relatively easy too. They just typically don't choose to do so. A lot of that has to do with the stigma associated with divorce in society. "You guys are breaking up, that's terrible I liked you guys together what happened?" turns into "Whoa you guys are getting divorced? What did the mother fucker do? There better be a damn good reason for this"
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The difference being that once you're married, one of the parties (women) can make life hell for the other if they so choose. And once their women friends get in their ears, that's what happens most times.
 
Famm

Famm

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Generally you aren't parting easily unless you have no kids and no marital property. So like if you kept everything in separate names and are renting your residence, sure it can be really easy to split. That's generally not the case though.
 
Jysin

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Articles like this piss me the fuck off:
Divorcing Women: The Truth About Your Husband's 401(k) And Other Assets - Forbes

This would be my single largest hurdle in ever convincing myself that marriage is a viable option. For the last 12 years, I have worked overseas (large part of it in the shithole Middle East) doing contract work. I have sacrificed being away from friends and family to build a stable future for myself and future family. Over that time, I have maxed Federal limits for 401k savings each year and, needless to say, I have a very considerable 401k nest egg.

The thing I dont get is how all of this money that I have tucked away in 401k savings could be granted a future ex-spouse in a divorce. If I had earned that money while married, perhaps it would be one thing. But here I am single at 35 with deep 6 figure 401k and I dont think anyone should have the rights to that due to the fact I "put a ring on it".

Like you guys said earlier. Very little to gain, EVERYTHING to lose!!
 
Jysin

Jysin

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You would think so, but:
What effect will a prenuptial agreement have on a 401(k)?

Courts have ruled that a prenuptial agreement for qualified plan (including 401(k)) assets is invalid. The logic is that only a spouse can give up the rights to spousal benefits. When someone signs a prenuptial agreement, that person is not considered a spouse at the time of signing. Where couples agree that the spouse will not make any claim to the assets, it is often recommended that :

.A postnuptial agreement be signed immediately after marriage
.The spouse sign a beneficiary designation form giving up rights to the assets immediately after marriage.
.The document be notarized or witnessed by a plan representative.
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Then you also have articles like this that says even a Post-nup isnt iron clad.
Court Ruling: Postnup Does Not Waive Spousal Rights To 401(K) - Forbes
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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Burnesto_sl said:
Can't you get a prenup and avoid that?
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At least in my world, a pre-nup would be 100% mandatory in order for me to get married, however there are two issues:

1) Getting her to sign it. Expect massive friction from this..
2) Her ability to contest it during a divorce. It varies from state to state, but pre-nups are frequently (and successfully) contested. I know a guy (very wealthy) that had a pre-nup that guaranteed her X dollars per year for each year of marriage, unless she contested it, which then stipulated she would get a big fat zero. Well, when divorce time rolled around the amount of money she stood to earn from the pre-nup would have made her instantly wealthy, but she contested it anyways because she wanted even more. The first part of the trial was over the pre-nup validity and whether she should get zero, and the jury found in her favor because "they didn't think it was fair that she gets nothing", despite the fact that he was 100% legally in the right. Judge refused to overturn the ruling and now its on appeal..
 
T

The Ancient_sl

shitlord
7,386
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Jysin_sl said:
Articles like this piss me the fuck off:
Divorcing Women: The Truth About Your Husband's 401(k) And Other Assets - Forbes

This would be my single largest hurdle in ever convincing myself that marriage is a viable option. For the last 12 years, I have worked overseas (large part of it in the shithole Middle East) doing contract work. I have sacrificed being away from friends and family to build a stable future for myself and future family. Over that time, I have maxed Federal limits for 401k savings each year and, needless to say, I have a very considerable 401k nest egg.

The thing I dont get is how all of this money that I have tucked away in 401k savings could be granted a future ex-spouse in a divorce. If I had earned that money while married, perhaps it would be one thing. But here I am single at 35 with deep 6 figure 401k and I dont think anyone should have the rights to that due to the fact I "put a ring on it".

Like you guys said earlier. Very little to gain, EVERYTHING to lose!!
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You weren't really paying attention to the article where it mentions that 401k property they'd be going after is moneys earned in it during marriage.

Let's dig in deeper by exploring the difference between separate property and marital property. Though your husband might love for you to believe otherwise, what the law considers separate property is actually pretty limited. In most states (although be careful, because the definition can vary somewhat state to state),separate property is restricted to:

Property that was owned by either spouse prior to the marriage.
An inheritance received by either spouse, either before or after the marriage, if not commingled or merged with marital assets.
A gift either spouse receives from a third party (i.e., your aunt gives you a favorite painting).
Monies received as the "pain and suffering" part of a personal injury judgment (again, if not mingled with marital assets, as in a joint bank account).
Property designated as separate as per a prenuptial or postnuptial agreement.

That's about it.

Everything else you and your husband have acquiredduring the marriageis usually considered marital property, regardless of "ownership" or title.

And yes, that includes his 401(k).
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Jysin

Jysin

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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The only real solution I see is to find a woman at wealth parity with me. Which is just about impossible on top of all the other trash you need to weed out to find that potential future wife. I really do not mind the idea of marriage. I want to be married before having kids. But all of this financial burden and potential ruin for the breadwinners needs to end.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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Jysin_sl said:
The only real solution I see is to find a woman at wealth parity with me. Which is just about impossible on top of all the other trash you need to weed out to find that potential future wife. I really do not mind the idea of marriage. I want to be married before having kids. But all of this financial burden and potential ruin for the breadwinners needs to end.
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Yup, I'm in the same boat. Unfortunately, the courts only care about preventing your kids/wife from taking a big hit in standard of living, hence the breadwinner gets totally fucked no matter what the circumstances. Your wife can openly admit in court to committing adultery, and even acknowledge the fact that she fucked her paramour in your bed whilst away at work and with the kids watching cartoons in the room next door, and it STILL won't matter to the court. She will still get the kids and your cash..
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
Can someone remind again how in this day and age what the benefits are to a man getting married?
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As a married man with no kids where I make most of the money there's no financial benefit to being married and we somewhat evenly share the chores (Ok she does the most) but personally the benefits of having a woman to go home to every night that I trust and love are immense. If she takes a trip to see her extended family for a while I get very lonely and a little depressed.
 
Frenzied Wombat

Frenzied Wombat

Potato del Grande
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Tuco_sl said:
As a married man with no kids where I make most of the money there's no financial benefit to being married and we somewhat evenly share the chores (Ok she does the most) but personally the benefits of having a woman to go home to every night that I trust and love are immense. If she takes a trip to see her extended family for a while I get very lonely and a little depressed.
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I agree, but technically you should be able come home to the woman you trust and love without having to be married and risk your shirt.. Society has created an environment where that scenario has become dependent on being married, and that's pure BS in my book.
 
Gravel

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Frenzied Wombat_sl said:
I agree, but technically you should be able come home to the woman you trust and love without having to be married and risk your shirt.. Society has created an environment where that scenario has become dependent on being married, and that's pure BS in my book.
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Yeah, I don't see how that type of relationship is predicated on being married.
 
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