Marriage and the Power of Divorce

He doesn't sound like he's fleeing responsibility. He was just in a miserable, draining relationship that needed to end. It's liberating.

I think marriage license should only be granted after both people attend 250 hours of family court separately. It would cut down on the divorce rate considerably .

250 hours, fuck man. Also why do you care when/how/conditions of people getting married? It's not like when others get divorced they somehow fuck you over. Now if you were talking about having kids... this is something we could work with.

We've officially started "trying"

Trollface_sl said:

dude, divorce is like freedom from responsibility for men. what's gonna happen is, your ex might feel like shit for agreeing with everything. just wait bro.

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I'm pretty sure we are just both on the same page. We were headed out to do a few things yesterday, and she said "How are you feeling about all of this, are you ok?", and I said "Yeah, you know, up's and downs, but I think we are doing the right thing." and she said "Yeah, it's kind of bittersweet though. I don't want to sound awful, and sometimes I'm feeling really shitty and sick about all of this, but most of the time, I'm just feeling kind of excited, you know? Is that ok to say, just that, I don't know, I don't have any idea where my life is going now, and it's just kind of exciting."

And I was like "Nope, I totally understand what you are saying, I feel the same way."

And I thought how fucking weird it was that I typed that same basic message out here in my last post.

Anything could happen, and yeah, tables could turn and get fucking messy fast I know, but, what can you do, fingers crossed it just works out.

Tuco_sl said:

250

Why separate?

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cause the temptation to whisper that won't happen to 'US' is way too great .

Noodleface_sl said:

250 hours, fuck man. Also why do you care when/how/conditions of people getting married? It's not like when others get divorced they somehow fuck you over. Now if you were talking about having kids... this is something we could work with.

We've officially started "trying"

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Well flesh that out some say a couple hours on a weekend for a year , or something else . It is a rhetorical idea to begin with as it will never happen.

I think it is something that could be done in high school or even college .

Would you want a tradesman of any sort with 250 hours of training fix your roof ? plumbing ? electrical work ? Hvac ? how about the brakes on your wife's car ?

How about your maternal health care if/when it happens ? 250 hours of real experience with pregnancies ? Complications ?

Honestly I wouldn't let some fucksicle with 250 hours of real driving experience , borrow a riding lawn mower. Let alone any vehicle we have.

What do I care ? I ain't counting on todays future organ donors/license plate makers / wastes of groceries too take care of me in my dotage 30 years from now. So no I don't really give a shit , darwinism works on an empire scale . However some folks may want functional grand kids to help out around the farms when things really go down hill.

Do you think being married is comparable to learning a trade?

chaos_sl said:

Do you think being married is comparable to learning a trade?

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more like learning a skill , in general people have to wing it with little guidance or input on interpersonal skills in america

so lets tack on another 250 hours of talks with people who have long term successful marriages say 15 years minimum


basic marriage 101

When you are wrong admit it
when you are right shut the fuck up

Are you married?

chaos_sl said:

Are you married?

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Still with the same woman for 12 years now

Awesome (assuming that is a good thing!) I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from with all this. I don't see how counseling before issues come up in a marriage would address the issues that come up in a marriage. Let's take Onoes for a sec, his situation seems pretty sad, but shit happens. I can't imagine any amount of counseling would have fixed that prior to the issues becoming apparent.

I really don't think it is comparable to a tradeskill or whatever, people get divorced for any number of reasons. In almost all cases that probably isn't necessarily a bad thing. Divorce still has this stigma attached to it, and it undoubtedly is not good for kids, but it is probably preferable to the alternative.

chaos_sl said:

Awesome (assuming that is a good thing!) I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from with all this. I don't see how counseling before issues come up in a marriage would address the issues that come up in a marriage. Let's take Onoes for a sec, his situation seems pretty sad, but shit happens. I can't imagine any amount of counseling would have fixed that prior to the issues becoming apparent.

I really don't think it is comparable to a tradeskill or whatever, people get divorced for any number of reasons. In almost all cases that probably isn't necessarily a bad thing. Divorce still has this stigma attached to it, and it undoubtedly is not good for kids, but it is probably preferable to the alternative.

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It is just rambling it has no purpose , however if it stops one person from having a messy divorce it is worth it .

If I have seen one guy marry the stripper to get out of the barracks , I have seen a thousand. It almost always never ends well.

Tuco_sl said:

Pre-marriage counseling is a good idea imo. I don't know if the best use of people's time is 250 hours in a family court but there's a lot of heart ache that can be avoided by pre-marriage counseling. It serves not just as a sobering way for a young couple to learn that marriage may not be all that great and it gives them tools to handle typical problems. It obviously won't stop divorce 100% but I'd be willing to bet that couples who go through pre-marriage counseling do better than those who don't. (Though there'd be some selection bias there)

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I don't know, I doubt people really look back to their pre-marriage counseling 3 years down the road. Maybe in the short-term, but long-term most people are probably going to revert to whatever problem-solving skills they have developed over their life. To me it seems like not only something that the average couple wouldn't really get full benefit from, but the target audience is the kind of person you would imagine wouldn't participate and the ones most likely to participate probably have a background that predisposes them to a lasting marriage anyway. And ultimately you have to have some kind of marriage available outside of these counseling arrangements, so long as marriage is tied to benefits and parenting etc.

"Education is an admirable thing, but it is well to remember from time to time that nothing that is worth knowing can be taught."

It really seems applicable to the idea of pre counseling a marriage. I mean I'm SURE there are little tips and tricks and couples interested in it could find some benefit from it... but.

It just seems like a skillset you live, not one you learn.

Wow Onoes I had to double-check but you're the guy that got robbed with that car thread, did that thing had any influence on your divorce ? You looked in a good relationship in that thread...

I don't think it really hurt the relationship any, but I'm sure it didn't help anything either. It was a weird situation, because on the one hand, I was the most irate I've ever been in my life on numerous occasions, I mean, if you ask anyone who knows me, if being pissed off\angry is a 1 to 10 scale, the highest I ever get is like a 6 maybe? And that's not even once a year, typically me being really upset is about 30 seconds of rage followed by me going "Ok, let me breathe and think for one second. Ok, here is the problem, its not that big a deal, lets figure out how to fix it.". I typically do really well under pressure and do not ever lose my cool. 99% of shit in life is just not worth it.

That being said, I'm not kidding at all when I say I would have murdered that lady (The thief lady, not my wife). If I would have got a call from a blocked number, and when I answered a voice said "You lose your $8,000, park the car in the desert and walk away, Brandy is dead, and she did not die well. *CLICK*, I would have probably been shocked, but also pretty pleased. I've just never felt utter and complete blinding rage like I did on several occasions during that ordeal. The amount of times I was just dumbfounded, going "Well, no way this can be happening... there are rules in place to prevent this... I have to have some options... this can't be real....", I mean, that was basically my daily thought process.

I never directed anger at my wife or anything, and I never put any of the blame on her, but yeah, I'm sure I was not someone you wanted to hang out with on a few of those nights. I wasn't any fun to be around. But, that was only 3 or 4 nights out of the whole thing, most of the time I was just hoping that everything would work out while being simultaneously worried I was screwed.


ANYWAY, I don't want to get back into the "I'm an idiot" thread, I know how willing everyone is to agree with me on that heh.

The reason I was actually coming to the thread tonight was to say I had my roughest day of the whole thing. We went to her mom's house today because she has an old bunk bed they aren't using anymore, and the plan was to clean it, disassemble it, and re-paint it. By Sunday (The day she can move into her new place), it will be totally ready to take to the new place and set back up for the kids. Well, we did that, and while we were talking it came out I had misunderstood the deposit amount of the new place by $250, so, no problem, just another expense, ok. We also determine the mattresses on the beds are about 10 years past the point they should have been thrown out, so those will need to be replaced. After we get the bed apart and outside, she decides on a color, and the plan becomes for me to go get the paint (plus some other stuff for packing we are low on), and she will stay with the kids at her moms to visit and avoid the day after Xmas Walmart crowd.

So, I go to the store and get the stuff. While I am there she calls to say that she realized she is going to need a Microwave, as the one we have is built into the wall and she wasn't going to take it. I say no problem, and grab one, so that's another $100. I get pizza's on the way back, and surprise everyone with dinner. We then come back to our house and start packing. I hop on Amazon and order 2 mattresses, $260, and (after realizing that I've thrown away the stand to the TV after I wall mounted it) I also order an entertainment center that has a tv mount attachment for her, another $150. I then go about emptying my nightstand, as I'm expecting all the furniture to go. She is in the kitchen packing and calls me in. She wants to know what I want to keep. I tell her "literally nothing, just take everything, I'll buy what I need as I need it." She gets a little annoyed and goes "Well, I'll just take like half of everything, and I'll just try to make sure I leave you with stuff you might use.", and I say "Seriously, don't factor me in at all, just assume if you don't take it I am going to throw it away. I don't need much, just take whatever you want.", she replies "You're not much help.", and I say "I know, I'm sorry."

I go back to the room and try to figure out what I'm going to do with stuff for the immediate future, but I'm just feeling super anxious and nauseous. I'm sure it's just really real, and I do want this, it was just rough at the moment, plus I just added another thousand dollars worth of expenses on to what I was expecting, and while I'm playing everything cool and courteous so she doesn't stress out/feel like shit about it, sooner or later I will need to take care of my own situation.

She comes in and asks if I'm ok and what I'm doing. I tell her I'm just getting all my stuff cleaned out, and she goes "Ohh you don't have to do that, where are you going to keep your socks and underwear? Just keep your side, and if you replace it in the future you can give it to me, but at least keep it for now." I say its fine and not to worry about it, but she insists and finally I say thank you, because yeah, it would be nice to have something to put shit in.

She then starts telling me all the stuff she plans on leaving for me, and a lot of it makes no sense because she needs that shit and has very little money. I start to talk to her, and explain why she is making no sense, and she breaks down crying. It turns out while I was out buying paint, her family (mostly her mom) was busy making her feel like shit. The entire time I was gone they were telling her how much I still love her, what a great husband and father I am, and how we don't know what we have until its gone, hindsight is 20/20, etc. Basically just telling her how this is all her fault, she is making a huge mistake, and how they are sure I really want to make it work and this is 100% her doing.

So, I calm her down, convince her that we both feel the same way, and that we are doing the right thing. We talk some more, and finally she is falling asleep, so we call it a night for packing.

Just kind of a rough night for both of us emotionally. Probably to be expected right after the holidays, but yeah.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of text, just getting it out there. I'm sure its going to be a couple more anxious days, but I'm hoping after the move that abates.