Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Koushirou

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I’d almost say fuck even letting her take curtains and shit, as that was basically her contribution to rent/mortgage, etc. She takes those with her, she essentially got to live there for free. Though I would agree, that’s probably not worth the bullshit that would generate. Fuck the paint, though, lol. Should charge her ass to paint it back the way it was.

Anyway, fuck her as well for essentially holding you hostage against ever having a real relationship or family dynamic again. If you eventually marry this chick, is she still going to expect you two to live separately? Or just not let your daughter visit anymore? Fuck that. Everyone knows that’s fucked, but I sure don’t trust family courts to get that right, so best of luck if it comes to that.
 
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Bandwagon

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Definitely. Had you been married and divorced, the court might place limitations on the distance, timing, and circumstances of any move that would change your ability to spend time with your daughter. You'll need to get prepared on the legal side of things since the courts haven't been involved yet.

What state? If you're in GA by any chance I have a very good friend who is a family attorney.
We both live in Oregon, but work in Washington (and our daughter goes to school in WA). This is progressive ground zero, so I'm sure neither state is friendly to the dad.

I just emailed a family law attorney that my coworker recommended. He used her a few years ago for the same scenario.

I’d almost say fuck even letting her take curtains and shit, as that was basically her contribution to rent/mortgage, etc. She takes those with her, she essentially got to live there for free. Though I would agree, that’s probably not worth the bullshit that would generate. Fuck the paint, though, lol. Should charge her ass to paint it back the way it was.

Anyway, fuck her as well for essentially holding you hostage against ever having a real relationship or family dynamic again. If you eventually marry this chick, is she still going to expect you two to live separately? Or just not let your daughter visit anymore? Fuck that. Everyone knows that’s fucked, but I sure don’t trust family courts to get that right, so best of luck if it comes to that.
I've never pushed the issue -at all-, because I'm also very protective of my daughter and my relationship with her, as well as her relationship with her mother. If she was 10, I'd feel more comfortable being able to have a conversation with her about all this stuff. But at 5 years old, I know that it would hurt my feelings if my ex had a boyfriend and my daughter looked to him in some sort of fatherly way. I get the sentiment and share the emotion, but I wouldn't try to prevent it from happening unless I had concerns about who the guy was or something.

Because my time with my daughter is so important to me, my girlfriend and I even discussed building an "Ohana"/rental thing on the back corner of the property and letting my ex live there rent free....just so my daughter can still live with her mom and dad close every day.

It also breaks my girlfriend's heart that she still hasn't met my daughter due to my ex, because she knows this little girl is my world and wants to meet her. She's been really patient with all this stuff and even now isn't really applying any pressure at all.


Anyways, thanks again for the input. I really don't ever talk to anyone about any of this stuff I'm an asshole on accident all the time, so I just needed a sounding board to see if I'm being a dick in this situation or if she is. I'll post about what the attorney says after I talk to her.
 
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KDow

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What was the total cost of the painting and carpet ?

You are obviously in the right in not having to reimburse her and you have done more than enough to accommodate her but then there's the really real world and you have a lot of extra stuff going on that you want to make work.

Getting down in the weeds with small claims court or an extra pissed off baby mama might not be worth the mental cost rather than just paying her. To that end, it all depends on what it cost or if she'd accept a partial reimbursement (she wanted it done, I assume she picked the colors, she got to enjoy the work for a time too).

For some reason i was reminded from this scene from A Bronx Tale.

 
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Bandwagon

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What was the total cost of the painting and carpet ?
I don't remember on the carpet. But it was dirt cheap and there's not all that much carpet in my house. Maybe $1,200?
I think the painting was $3k or $4k (and they did a shitty job).
 

Kirun

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I've bent over backwards for her, changing my work schedule constantly any time she has a new whim or whatever, just so I can still see my daughter every day.
This is why she's acting like this, btw.
 
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Kirun

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Getting down in the weeds with small claims court or an extra pissed off baby mama might not be worth the mental cost rather than just paying her. To that end, it all depends on what it cost or if she'd accept a partial reimbursement (she wanted it done, I assume she picked the colors, she got to enjoy the work for a time too).
Except she's obviously doing this because Bangwagon keeps capitulating to all her demands. Giving her another 3-5k in cash is just going to reinforce her shitty behavior. He needs to talk to a lawyer.
 
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Bandwagon

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This is why she's acting like this, btw.
Oh don't come in here acting like I just let women walk all over me willy nilly, Doctor Doomer. I have been uncharacteristically compromising and patient with her on all of this stuff entirely because nothing is more important to me than being around my daughter. Going from 100% of the time to 50% of the time was devastating and I've been overly patient with my ex just for the sake of maintaining that 50% without a lawyer. That's the only reason I've been so accommodating. But after a few years of this stuff, I've just accepted that my ex is not going to stop sticking the knife in and it's time to draw a line in the sand.

Oh snap didn't know Bandwagon was Tom Arnold

She seriously took one of the ice cube trays out of the freezer (the weird silicone one I bought for her as a gag)
 
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Kirun

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Oh don't come in here acting like I just let women walk all over me willy nilly, Doctor Doomer.
Clearly you have or she wouldn't be acting like a cunt. You're doing the Onoes Onoes thing where you think you can negotiate with this bitch, without lawyers involved. Trying to have a "gentleman's agreement" with a bitter ex just seems like the dumbest thing imaginable. I understand your love for your daughter and not wanting to "rock the boat", but doing so without the law involved is what has gotten you into such a shitty situation with your ex.
 
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Captain Suave

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Clearly you have or she wouldn't be acting like a cunt. You're doing the Onoes Onoes thing where you think you can negotiate with this bitch, without lawyers involved. Trying to have a "gentleman's agreement" with a bitter ex just seems like the dumbest thing imaginable. I understand your love for your daughter and not wanting to "rock the boat", but doing so without the law involved is what has gotten you into such a shitty situation with your ex.

You're coming in a little harsh, dude. While he did contribute to the situation through failure to set boundaries he's already said he's going to consult a lawyer.
 

Bandwagon

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One more thing I forgot to mention - my ex's mom (who loaned her the money for the carpet and paint) also provides free childcare for my daughter 5 afternoons a week. She's a great lady and my daughter absolutely loves her, but her only flaw is that she will do absolutely anything for her kids....even when they're in the wrong. So no matter how awesome grandma is, she's 100% going to take her daughter's side on absolutely anything, even if she thinks she's in the wrong

You're coming in a little harsh, dude. While he did contribute to the situation through failure to set boundaries he's already said he's going to consult a lawyer.

Kirun gonna kirun
 
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Fucker

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I just want to protect my 50% of the time with my daughter, and also see if there's a way I can keep my ex from moving 2 states away as soon as I tell her my ex is moving in....which is what I'm expecting.
That's what will happen. She'll go nuclear once you lawyer up, and she'll move to beautiful sunny Jackson and shack up with a guy named Jamal. You'll see your kid for every other holiday at first, and then eventually once or twice a year and then once every few years. 11 years from now, she'll pop up with a few milk duds in tow and drop them in your house before she vanishes for a few years, only visiting when she needs to drop off a few more milk duds. At one point, those pangs of regret will make you wonder why you were even born at all.

It won't be that bad, though. Jackson has a good school system that will prepare her for a promising career at a nail salon. Lots of upscale neighborhoods there, too:
maxresdefault-3626196272.jpg
 
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KDow

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Except she's obviously doing this because Bangwagon keeps capitulating to all her demands. Giving her another 3-5k in cash is just going to reinforce her shitty behavior. He needs to talk to a lawyer.
That's fair.

Outside of the looming GF moving in, baby mama trying to move out of state.

What do you think her actual reaction will be when you decide not to pay her Bandwagon Bandwagon ?

Would she really take you to court over it? Or have it be the catalyst to get ugly with custody stuff?

Has she said when she expects to be paid?
 

moonarchia

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I've been overly patient with my ex just for the sake of maintaining that 50% without a lawyer.
This was your mistake. You never want to get into playing this game. Always get the lawyers involved if there is children involved. Every. Single. Time. Even if it's 100% amicable you want that shit in ironclad legal writing that you both sign off on.
 

Onoes

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Clearly you have or she wouldn't be acting like a cunt. You're doing the Onoes Onoes thing where you think you can negotiate with this bitch, without lawyers involved. Trying to have a "gentleman's agreement" with a bitter ex just seems like the dumbest thing imaginable. I understand your love for your daughter and not wanting to "rock the boat", but doing so without the law involved is what has gotten you into such a shitty situation with your ex.

Pffffft, I don't think you are allowed to use me as a cautionary tale when everything worked out fucking brilliantly in my situation.

I think the biggest difference here is both me and my ex-wife came from really shitty divorces, and our number one goal was not to do that to our kids. At no point was I worried about her going nuclear or doing anything drastic. I understand that most people can't sit down and have rational conversations with their ex. The way Bandwagon has described it, it doesn't sound like that's an option for him. I mean man, you said you asked her to pay rent and she threw a fit and lived with you rent-free for another year. That's fucking crazy. At the most I would have dropped it for a couple of days, and then sat down with her and said "okay, I understand you didn't want to talk about this the other night, but we need to get it figured out" and gone right back into it.

The whole thing just sounds like a hostage situation where you have to tiptoe around and try to make sure she's happy all the time to get the bare minimum of what you're asking for. For the first few months after my divorce my ex-wife kept basically trying to lay down rules, and if they involved the kids I was happy to sit down and talk to her about them. As soon as she overstepped and tried to lay down a rule for my life though, I told her plainly and firmly that we were no longer married, she no longer had any input into the aspects of my life that don't involve our children and that was pretty much that. It only happened one other time, about a year later when I was dating. I was running late at work, and I asked my girlfriend to pick my children up from daycare and take them to their mom's house. My ex-wife called me and told me she didn't really want to know my girlfriend, and in the future could I please tell her to just pull up in front of the house and let the kids go in without getting out of the car and taking them up to the door. I told her no, that was incredibly rude and that my girlfriend is a part of mine and the children's life, and as such it would be beneficial to everyone if they tried to get along. My ex-wife said that she was sorry but she was going to have to insist, and that my girlfriend wasn't allowed on her property. I told her that for over a year we have been doing great, and this seems like a pretty stupid argument to throw all of that away on, and if she was going to insist to go down this path she would not like where it leads. I said the first counter from me would be that my ex-wife herself is no longer allowed on my property, and that every time she wanted to exchange the kids she would have to park out in the street and call me to let me know she was there, and then I would walk the kids out to her car. She was pretty dumbfounded and started to try to argue that I couldn't do that. I just calmly responded that I did not want to do that, but I also will not be pushed around or to live my life according to her whims and feelings. I've been basically just reiterated that this is a path I do not want to go down, but I'm also not just going to roll over, and I said I urge you to rethink this.

She literally never brought it up again and 6 months later she was great friends with my girlfriend.

Anyway, yes the way my ex-wife and I handled our divorce, calmly and rationally without getting lawyers involved was risky. The first couple years there were plenty of opportunities for things to go wrong, and I could have ended up royally fucked. Luckily none of that happened, and I believe I'm over 10 years divorced now with pretty much everything being absolute best case scenario. My ex-wife and my wife get along great, my kids are awesome (6 months until my oldest son starts driving, that's a little nerve-wracking), it's just all worked out really well. Hell, I'm going camping with my ex-in-laws this weekend lol.

But yeah, in Bandwagons case it does not sound like that would be a good idea based on what he's told us. I would talk to a lawyer and get all of your ducks in a row. After that, and without telling her you've spoken with the lawyer, I would probably speak to her and try to see if you could work some stuff out amicably. Like the carpet and paint thing, if you have the money I would just say fuck it and tell her those costs should have been split 50/50 when you were a couple, and so you're going to go ahead and give her half the money back or whatever, if you think that will grease the wheels and keep her happy and working with you rather than against you. You definitely don't owe that to her, and if there wasn't a kid involved I would say she could fuck right off. Since you need to be involved with her for a minimum of 13 more years due to your kid though, sometimes gestures like that are enough to keep people happy and make your life just run much smoother. If you don't think giving her the money is going to accomplish anything though, don't give her the money.

But yeah, Plan A would be to talk to a lawyer, and then talk to her and hopefully work stuff out amicably. Plan B is to take what you talk to a lawyer about and put it into action.
 

Cutlery

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Yeah, allowing your ex any kind of leeway in regard to your romantic life is dumb as shit. I absolutely guarantee she is not going to stay single for the next 13 years to ensure your child doesn't have any other father type figures, so entertaining that fucking nonsense in any way right now is only going to hurt you.

I was more furious than I wanted to be when my kid would talk about the cuck her mom lives with right after the split. But, here's the thing - kids know who their parents are. This dude is a pale shadow of me, and she is well aware of it. He'll never be competition to me, he just spends half the week with her. She knows who her father is and who's the guy just putting up with her mother's shit, and you get used to it.

Women on the other hand, I doubt ever get used to it. I'm sure my ex hates my GF, because my GF is more domestic (by a long shot) and does more shit with my kid than my ex ever will. But, sucks to suck.
 

Hoss

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The latter.

I'm sure when you add up what you've paid in rent and mortgage over the years, whatever pittance she's paid will pale in comparison. So if she wants to get paid for the carpet and paint, take it out of that amount.

Not sure what legal legs you have to stand on, but maybe before she goes ballistic you can get her to sign a custody agreement in exchange for 'paying her back' for the useless shit.

If you want to get shitty, tell her to take the fucking carpet and paint back, but she better have the original stuff reinstalled.
 

Bandwagon

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Not sure what legal legs you have to stand on, but maybe before she goes ballistic you can get her to sign a custody agreement in exchange for 'paying her back' for the useless shit.
That's exactly what I'm doing. I told her I'm not discussing any of it until we have a signed parenting agreement in place.
 
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