Master of Orion

tad10_sl said:

Seems to be the case that we're getting the game the Russians MOO2 fans want, which is not necessarily the game the US MOO2 fans want. Devs are much more involved with the Russian official board & etc. and I gather that Russian players were the origins of starlane movement instead of traditional MOO2 movement.

I'm going to guess that the hybrid TBS/RTS is because Russian fans want playable multi-player. You can play MOO2 with two humans + some number of AI, but beyond two it's not a good multiplayer game. Since I happen to play MOO2 2 person+AI multiplayer fairly regularly, I am open to a hybrid RTS combat if it improves that experience. Even with 2 players, there are significant waiting times, further more I'd like three player to be an actual possibility and not the experience in futility it is now.

YMMV

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Well, some RTS variants could be good - Star Control was good, but I can't see them doing it on that level. So many besides Star Control have been bad in my book.

Vaclav_sl said:

Well, some RTS variants could be good - Star Control was good, but I can't see them doing it on that level. So many besides Star Control have been bad in my book.

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Always twitch to watch before you buy. Also @Gavin I wrote too quickly, the research is a hybrid: there are some techs where you research and then get a choice of one of two or three (example developers have shown is genetic mutation research gives you either heightened intelligence or psionics but not both) and there are other techs where you get all available techs (e.g there's a upper level engineering tech that IIRC gives you both artificial planets, terraforming and something else).

So I guess the word of the week, every week, for the developers was "Hybrid".

Edit: And as to how often research is selective vs. inclusive the official dev response is:

It's decently frequent, just enough to feel like your choices are specializing your empire, but not to the point where you have to spend part of every turn figuring out which of the options is best for your victory path.

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Well, it depends, do you mean RTS for just the battle screen? Because my favorite 4X game, Sword of the Stars (The original) was that. Not to mention that is essentially Total War, too.

In fact I tend to think 4x games are made better by that element, especially if real world geometry of the unit, and how it attacks/defends, are made aspect of unit balance. For example, in sword of the stars, weapons which face forward were far more powerful, but they were far more difficult to use than broad sides. Just like how sword stats in Dark Souls could be deceptive because how the weapon moved in the world was important, having that element in a 4X game prevents it from being just a big case of rock paper scissors.

(The worst miss of all time was SoTS 2. It had everything, but they just didn't finish it. Armor had layers, and weapons had penetration templates, so some weapons did all four of their damage in a straight line, which allowed them to punch out armor, while others did their damage horizontally, which sucked vs armor but was really good vs internal components. Was really an awesome design concept, but the game sucked.)

In any case, if they say its a mesh between TBS/RTS, I suspect it just means the battle screen will have a pause button. (But RTS style movement has numerous advantages over TBS, the biggest of which is momentum becomes a consequence. Turning a ship or unit in a more RTS like environment, and having it be slow to turn another way can add a huge tactical layer compared to chess-like movement.)

I'd be down for a modern Ascendancy.

wargaming wants to make a balanced 4x / rts game?

But there's no Russian choice to make more balanced than the others?

Lithose_sl said:

Well, it depends, do you mean RTS for just the battle screen?.

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It's turn-based but hybrid RTS for tactical battle per official forum. Ship design video is due out on weds, but the battle video may not be out before the EA release on Friday. However tactical battles will be in the EA release so we'll know what's up with it on Friday (though create-your-own-race option won't be in for a while per official forum community manager).

I am hoping that you can put time-limits in for turns or the game has an option for some kind of simultaneous turns to speed up multi-player.

Tarrant_sl said:

Where do you order this anyway?

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Early Access Steam or GOG Feb 26th. Can't pre-order/pre-load as it is an EA game.

For Quineloe here's a hot Russian chick talking about MOO4 for 15 seconds:

Master of Orion ?????? - YouTube

Edit: download is around 5.6 gb

Vaclav_sl said:

Well, some RTS variants could be good - Star Control was good, but I can't see them doing it on that level. So many besides Star Control have been bad in my book.

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Actual info about the combat from a WG dev on the official forums.

Collisions are a thing. I discovered that firsthand by running into an asteroid. Whoops!

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So ramming speed is now a thing.

It's closer to RTS than TBS, IMO. I'm still getting the hang of it

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Suggests "hybrid" means RTS that you can pause or slow.

Phazael_sl said:

If the timed turn shit is for MP only, fine..

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Single player is standard turn-based, you can see that on the Aus PAX gameplay video on youtube. Repeated claim is that the RTS tactical combat is not a twitch fest, we'll see on Friday (or maybe Saturday given you can't pre-load the game).

From the official forums: Old build of the tactical battle screen UI (according to devs has gone through significant polish since this picture). Specifically the buttons on the bottom screen allows you to pause, slow or speed game speed to give units specific orders.



Edit: Controls for individual ships appear when you select that ship.

Early Access update on Steam with yet another 2 minute marketing video.

Steam Community :: Group Announcements :: Master of Orion

I spoke to soon about the video seems that at 0:26-27 you can see a brief example of space combat. Given that per Dev comment on Steam, combat is completely pausable, I think there is reason for hope.

Master of Orion: Early Access Trailer - YouTube


Available on 26th

.Six races: Alkari, Bulrathi, Human, Mrrshan, Psilon and Sakkra

.Three victory conditions: Conquest, Diplomatic and Excellence

.Tactical Battles

.Multiplayer

.Ship Design

.English and Russian language support for text and VO

.64-bit Windows support

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Not available: the other races, create-your-own-race option, other winning conditions, espionage (given for the reason Darloks aren't in), all other localization.

Edit: Official site has some not-very helpful pictures of combat. Controls for formation, individual ship orders, pause/play/gamespeed and obstacles (asteroids) on the tactical battle map: all of which we already knew were in. Ship design video due tomorrow, tactical battle video due ???

Early Access 1 Details - Arrives Feb 26 | News | Master of Orion

Phazael_sl said:

So basically, pause every other second because the allied AI is retarded kind of like Baldur's Gate or PoE? Yeah, no thanks. I will just keep playing Moo2, instead.

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1. You never go on auto in MOO2? Ever? If you are telling me you start, play through, and finish all combats manually, then you're a masochist.

2. You're saying you won't use a hybrid RTS/TBS system as a turn-based system because of... Well, I really don't know why, I guess "just cause". Using a hybrid system that always you to play turn-based, is totally different from a turn-based system how precisely?

3. We have no understanding of the goodness of the AI but you're going to call it retarded anyway. Now, on Friday we may find out the AI is indeed retarded, in which case you should start your own psychic hotline, but until then you've got no basis for your rant.

I hate cynical bullshit "everything sucks" posts like this. So yeah, I'm going to neg you.