Military Thread

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Eidal

Eidal

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
Just because someone can run a 300PFT doesnt mean theyre better than someone who can only do a 250.
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It clearly means the 300 PFTer is faster than the 250. That's the difference between a 3 mile 18 minute and 3 mile 26:20 minutes. You can argue all you want about different types of strength, or how that 300 PFTer can't squat like you, but you're totally neglecting the amount of discipline and training it takes (and the character that reveals) to run an 18 minute 3 mile.

EDIT: I never ran a 300, but making it sound like that gap in performance for a major fitness test is negligible is just ridiculous.
 
C

Chesire_sl

shitlord
331
1
It goes far beyond PT the guy with 798 points gets the promotion , the guys with 760 to 797 points get rcp ets. 120 days later the promotion points drop to 550 cause the army booted people they should not have. Do they call back the 42 people who scored 760 + promotion points ? Nope, they promote the spongebob camopants , and patrick star mos px ranger colostomy bags , who are getting promoted solely because they got shit lucky on their enlistment dates.
note this is under the current rcp and promotion point systems to be as realistic as possible
 
Eidal

Eidal

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Chesire_sl said:
It goes far beyond PT the guy with 798 points gets the promotion , the guys with 760 to 797 points get rcp ets. 120 days later the promotion points drop to 550 cause the army booted people they should not have. Do they call back the 42 people who scored 760 + promotion points ? Nope, they promote the spongebob camopants , and patrick star mos px ranger colostomy bags , who are getting promoted solely because they got shit lucky on their enlistment dates.
note this is under the current rcp and promotion point systems to be as realistic as possible
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I don't know enough about all the branches convoluted methods for promotion/retention. In my 5 years active, I saw a shit ton of average/mediocre/garbage people rant and rave about how unfair something is; they were being treated like average and replaceable people and it really bothered them. They either didn't understand the system, or didn't want to put the effort into competing. I think they felt that retiring @ 20 is an entitlement, not a privilege.
 
A

a_skeleton_03

<Banned>
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Eidal_sl said:
It clearly means the 300 PFTer is faster than the 250. That's the difference between a 3 mile 18 minute and 3 mile 26:20 minutes. You can argue all you want about different types of strength, or how that 300 PFTer can't squat like you, but you're totally neglecting the amount of discipline and training it takes (and the character that reveals) to run an 18 minute 3 mile.

EDIT: I never ran a 300, but making it sound like that gap in performance for a major fitness test is negligible is just ridiculous.
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OR they ran an 18 minute but they had an arm injury in combat and can't do 20 pullups ..... there are tons of reasons some people don't get 300 and they aren't all that the other person is more disciplined. I knew kids that hadn't run at all before bootcamp that were just magically gods at running a 3 mile.
 
Eidal

Eidal

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
OR they ran an 18 minute but they had an arm injury in combat and can't do 20 pullups ..... there are tons of reasons some people don't get 300 and they aren't all that the other person is more disciplined. I knew kids that hadn't run at all before bootcamp that were just magically gods at running a 3 mile.
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I thought that the military carries over your pre-injury score and you run a partial. I don't doubt that there are some people who run 250 PFTs who should be retained; they typically are. I also think that putting up serious run times gets progressively harder as you age; sure, kids fresh into boot camp with low body fat percentage are fast runners... but I watched a lot of guys pick up some rank, drink more beer, and get slower as they aged. Meanwhile, the 35 year old Major is running a 19:30 because he still gives a shit about being competitive.

I'm just commenting on my own anecdotal evidence (5 years USMC, 0231) -- MOST of the guys I worked with who were above average wanted to get out. They knew that they'd have better opportunities on the outside and wanted to get their schooling knocked out fast. The guys who sucked at their job and didn't know how to put their fork down, well, they knew they'd get crushed in the real world and wanted to stay in; its crystal clear in the USMC that physical fitness is held on a pedestal... you can either rant/rave about the system or just learn how to beat it (i.e., get strong, fast, and learn how to spout all the leadership buzzwords that your superiors want you to know).
 
Sulrn

Sulrn

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The retention boards are far from perfect, especially with the rate at which they implemented the cuts. However I know commands that do everything in their power to find loop holes to retain worthwhile personnel that aren't ready to go make more money/go to school. Then you still have branch transfers and the reserves as a backup for most.

Some of the best Soldiers I've worked with are former Marines that couldn't make promotion. I'd take more of that.
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Eidal_sl said:
It clearly means the 300 PFTer is faster than the 250. That's the difference between a 3 mile 18 minute and 3 mile 26:20 minutes. You can argue all you want about different types of strength, or how that 300 PFTer can't squat like you, but you're totally neglecting the amount of discipline and training it takes (and the character that reveals) to run an 18 minute 3 mile.

EDIT: I never ran a 300, but making it sound like that gap in performance for a major fitness test is negligible is just ridiculous.
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I saw plenty of guys who could run fast but when it came to picking up a pack and going for a hump, they did terrible. They should never use one metric as the holly grail and end all be all of what makes someone good. Yeah you pay run a 300 on your pft but you could be shitty at your job. Difference is being shitty at your job isnt as obvious to HQMC as your pft score.
 
Eidal

Eidal

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Big Phoenix_sl said:
I saw plenty of guys who could run fast but when it came to picking up a pack and going for a hump, they did terrible. They should never use one metric as the holly grail and end all be all of what makes someone good. Yeah you pay run a 300 on your pft but you could be shitty at your job. Difference is being shitty at your job isnt as obvious to HQMC as your pft score.
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People have all types of excuses man -- but how many are actually training hard to improve? I'd wager most of those guys are just bitching or saying shit like ("I'm just not a good runner"). Yes, its true that HQMC places a very large emphasis on the PFT... some people look at that as a challenge, others find excuses for why HQMC is unfair.
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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It doesnt matter if its about a pft or how many wpm you can type, focusing on a single metric when that metric is one of but dozens that are important is just stupid and will lead to stupid things happening. Being a Marine or Soldier is a hell of a lot more than simply being able to run fast.
 
Sulrn

Sulrn

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You're losing focus. It's not about the metric. It's about your focus and effort on performing the metric. The assumption is if you're willing to bust ass for a 300, you'll equally bust ass to round out your inability to carry 60+ lbs on your back for 8+miles.

They can't gauge everyone fairly on multiple metrics that translates to deployment atmosphere because of finances, time, and safety. Why do you think the Army is still failing to fully implement its new PFT/CFT across the board? Thus KISS.

Anyway...

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Brikker

Brikker

Trump's Staff
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From the Air Force side of things, I have no idea what you fuckers are talking about.

Aim High!
 
C

Chesire_sl

shitlord
331
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The new army retention control point system is going to gurantee , that the bulk of the force never makes it to E 5.
The days of the career specialist are going away .
 
Faltigoth

Faltigoth

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As a pre-9/11 tanker, I laughed at all my guys who took PT seriously. It was like, whatever, run as fast as you goddamn want, the only place I am running to is...uh...wait, I'm on a fucking tank, I drive past people who are running and laugh at them.
 
Pollo

Pollo

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Chesire_sl said:
The new army retention control point system is going to gurantee , that the bulk of the force never makes it to E 5.
The days of the career specialist are going away .
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The days of the career E4 ended in the 90s. I remember seeing E4s with 10+ years in service in the mid 90s. When they moved the retention back from 12 to 8 years for E4s, it killed it. Who the fuck would want to be an E4 for that long anyways? Shit I was an E3 longer than I was an E4 (thanks to the great promotion waiver freeze of 96-97). I never planned on staying in past my first enlistment. Yet, here my dumbass sits in Afghanistan on my 3rd 12+ month tour in Afghanistan 19 years later.
 
C

Chesire_sl

shitlord
331
1
Pollo_sl said:
The days of the career E4 ended in the 90s. I remember seeing E4s with 10+ years in service in the mid 90s. When they moved the retention back from 12 to 8 years for E4s, it killed it. Who the fuck would want to be an E4 for that long anyways? Shit I was an E3 longer than I was an E4 (thanks to the great promotion waiver freeze of 96-97). I never planned on staying in past my first enlistment. Yet, here my dumbass sits in Afghanistan on my 3rd 12+ month tour in Afghanistan 19 years later.
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It is not about who wants it , more about promotion points being high . Through multiple deployments it is pretty hard to get a four year degree let alone any army schools . Sure you can be PT superstar and shoot like ed topperwine plus have a rack that drags on the ground. However that means fuck all when you don't get 80 points for WLC and 75 points worth of college credits and whatever miltary education tops out at these days.
career specialist was more tongue in cheek than anything . A security clearance is own reward when one gets out plenty of decent jobs out there simply by dint of having one.
 
E

eenis_sl

shitlord
42
0
Sulrn_sl said:
First off, you didn't say dick all about anything but the sand still stuck in your pussy. Secondly the regs are almost identical to the ones from the 1980s. Everyone was complaining about wanting old school military back, well here it is on it's way back.

As far as tattoos:



Straight out of your creed - disciplined, maintaining yourself, being professional. It's about uniformity and not being an individual anymore. No one is stopping you from getting tattoos. They're only stopping your from getting shit that disrupts military bearing and your professional appearance. It doesn't matter about your combat performance - it's about looking the part and recreating the atmosphere that instills and reinforces discipline. Or do you feel like you should keep that scraggly ass pubic hair on your face too because it doesn't effect combat performance either.

This is all about getting rid of the trash (fatties, sex-offenders, malingerers, malcontents). You say its not about being a good Soldier -- it very much is, whether you can see the big picture or not.

Semirelated
rrr_img_65497.jpg
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The soldiers Creed talks about tattoos!? Haha you are a raging faggot aren't you! You probably are the type of retard that would kick out the guy who could hump a 240 all day WITH the AG bag just because he doesn't meet tape. Fucks like you ruin the military, old timing shiny shoed cunts. its all about discipline right?
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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+1. Bet hes the kind of guy who thinks field day is the glue that keeps the USMC together.
 
E

eenis_sl

shitlord
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0
Alright so I'll tone down the rhetoric and attempt to argue as an adult. So in a serious question how is image related to the combat performance of a unit? Now I understand that a uniformed military must be uniform but in my opinion the top brass is of an older non combat generation that thinks appearance and performance are the same thing. Do you think they have gone too far, just right or not far enough? Also what would you change if you had dictatorial powers to enact change?
 
Big Phoenix

Big Phoenix

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Problem is two fold;

1) You get people in useless dead end billets who need to do something to look good on their performance reports or whatever the hell their called. They come up with dumb ideas and how they did such an amazing job implementing them and how much better everyone is because of it.

2) The military believes it is perfect and thus no change is needed. Everything that is currently done and all the regulations that are in place are the reason why it is perfect and so changing them will lead to the military to stop being perfect.
 
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