MTG: Arena

Punko · Feb 7, 2019

I hate MTGA and everything it presents, but claiming it is pay to win is an excessive display of (mental) poverty.

fanaskin · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
I'm just saying you can't compete at the outset of a new season.

Make a gates deck you can make a decent one with only commons and uncommons.

Punko · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
I'm not saying this game isn't playable without spending dollars. I'm just saying you can't compete at the outset of a new season. Which, makes it pay-to-win.

A minimal financial contribution and a mediocre amount of skill will get you whatever deck you want.

This statement has been made several times.

You aren't being flamed enough considering your ignorance on the topic.

fanaskin · Feb 7, 2019

I dunno the gripe seems to be "I want to play for free and be the best and the game won't let me on day 1" which for a multiplayer collectible card game that a company is giving to you for free, that you could literally play for free if you wanted is a LOL

Punko · Feb 7, 2019

fanaskin said:
Make a gates deck you can make a decent one with only commons and uncommons.

reeee

uncommons are p2w

Tmac · Feb 7, 2019

fanaskin said:
I dunno the gripe seems to be "I want to play for free and be the best and the game won't let me on day 1" which for a multiplayer collectible card game that a company if giving to you for free, that you could literally play for free if you wanted is a LOL

Saying a game forces you to spend money to compete isn't griping. It's their business model and I'm fine with it, but I'm not going to pretend it's not pay-to-win.

I don't know why you guys are so salty about this.

If I want to play any other F2P game, I can compete without spending dollars.

In MTGA, at the start of a new season, you cannot compete without spending dollars. Yes, you can play without spending dollars, but you can't compete.

The entire premise of the P2Win model is to create a paywall that players have to buy into, so that they can compete. This is exactly the business model MTGA has engaged in and I'm fine with it. But, for whatever reason you guys are white knighting the fuck out it.

Punko · Feb 7, 2019

also my 40$ teferi / nexus standard deck (lol cheap price bro's) lost to the gate deck

unsure which is better, white weenie wrecks both though, as well as mono red aggro, so I'm rolling with that

fanaskin · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
Saying a game forces you to spend money to compete isn't griping. It's their business model and I'm fine with it, but I'm not going to pretend it's F2P.

I don't know why you guys are so salty about this.

If I want to play any other F2P game, I can compete without spending dollars.

In MTGA, at the start of a new seasons, you cannot compete without spending dollars. The entire premise of the P2Win model is to create a paywall that players have to buy into, so that they can compete.

so you want the magic game, where a big part of the addiction is opening packs and collecting cards, to give you access to all the cards on day 1?

Punko · Feb 7, 2019

fanaskin said:
so you want the magic game, where a big part of the addiction is opening packs and collecting cards, to give you access to all the cards on day 1?

i play magic to cast blood moon against an opponent with zero basic lands and zero red spells

this is how richard meant it to be played

also, stasis

Enzee · Feb 7, 2019

I've been in arena since the closed beta, when ixalan was the only set available. I've seen people constantly making the comparison with paper mtg when defending the 'cost' of mtga, and that analogy is irrelevant and idiotic. Paper magic gives you a tangible good, it's a collectible that has an inherited value. As expensive as paper magic might be from a retail standpoint, you can recoup or limit those costs extensively. I barely spent money on paper mtg and had a playset of new sets within a month or two from drafts, tournament prizes, trades, etc.. Smart trades and sales can offset the costs, and even when they don't, you can hold onto your cards for years and potentially sell them later to recoup costs. When you 'spend' 500 on a deck, you didn't 'lose 500'. If you spend $50 in MTGA, you will never get that back. I realize you are paying for the entertainment of the game, but MTGA's pricing in comparison to paper is literally irrelevant. It's pricing in comparison to Hearthstone, Eternal, Gwent, etc.. however, is relevant. Does it cost more/less for my entertainment then those other games? That's the only relevant question, and for many players, it's worse.

If you are just grinding games in constructed, then MTGA is worse than everything. If you are a halfway decent Limited player, then MTGA is better then everything except Eternal and Gwent. I'm still playing drafts off the gems I got back from beta, think i had about 20k gems leftover for drafts when open beta started, and i'm down to 10k now. I've got a complete playset of all the commons/uncommons in both ravnica sets, and a playset of all the rares I need from either set. I've done at least 100 drafts in the last few months, maybe a lot more. If I only do 1 bo3 draft a day, i'm basically infinite, because I get a buffer of gems whenever i have 5k gold and do a bo1 draft. If I grind out 2+ a day, I lose a small amount of gems on average.

Tmac · Feb 7, 2019

fanaskin said:
so you want the magic game, where a big part of the addiction is opening packs and collecting cards, to give you access to all the cards on day 1?

Breh, my original post was just me saying that I didn't realize MTGA was pay-to-win until I didn't have money to pour into it.

I wouldn't care if each card had a $0.40 fee. I just wouldn't pretend like they were free at that point or get defensive when someone states the obvious.

Chimney · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
The spirit of pay-to-win is that you're blocking off players from having an advantage or experiencing content, unless they get past a pay wall. MTGA blocks off old players from the META in a new season for 10+ weeks.

Remember, that all new players get lots of help. Existing players don't get help upon a new season.

So, yeah, if you want to look up the definition of pay-to-win in the dicationary and intentionally try to misconstrue where I'm coming from, MTGA is not pay-to-win. But, if you don't spend money on this game, you're out of the META for a loooooong time, effectively making it pay-to-win.

Look man I won't knock anyone for being broke, but you don't NEED the meta to succeed. There are players posting their absolute shit looking decks on reddit making mythic, people playing pre-cons making mythic. All you need is time, luck and good skills.

It's frustrating at times not having access to everything, but even though I could plunk down $1k and buy ALL the cards, I don't and I'm happy mastering the piloting of 2-3 decks and making 1-2 completely jank garbage for fun per rotation.

Here are 3 that I play regularly that were competitive enough to get me to plat last and this season easily. If you like bo3 then you could sideboard plenty of cards that aren't rare/mythic as well.

All of these could be made in a couple of weeks as a new player if you're doing your dailies and popping packs with the gold you earn.

Budget Gates Deck 4 Rares

1 Archway Angel (RNA) 3
2 Forest (XLN) 277
4 Gateway Plaza (GRN) 247
3 Gruul Guildgate (RNA) 249
2 Island (XLN) 265
1 Azorius Guildgate (RNA) 243
2 Izzet Guildgate (GRN) 251
2 Mountain (XLN) 273
4 Plaza of Harmony (RNA) 254
3 Simic Guildgate (RNA) 257
2 Selesnya Guildgate (GRN) 256
2 District Guide (GRN) 128
4 Gatebreaker Ram (RNA) 126
4 Gate Colossus (RNA) 232
4 Guild Summit (GRN) 41
4 Circuitous Route (GRN) 125
4 Gates Ablaze (RNA) 102
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
4 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
4 Shimmer of Possibility (RNA) 51

Budget Mono U 4 Rare

4 Merfolk Trickster (DAR) 56
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald (RIX) 43
4 Siren Stormtamer (XLN) 79
4 Tempest Djinn (DAR) 68
2 Chart a Course (XLN) 48
4 Dive Down (XLN) 53
4 Opt (XLN) 65
2 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81
4 Wizard's Retort (DAR) 75
4 Curious Obsession (RIX) 35
20 Island (XLN) 265
2 Exclusion Mage (M19) 55
1 Sleep (M19) 74
1 Negate (RIX) 44

Budget RDW 4 Rare / 4 Mythic (You can replace the arclight here if you don't have them with 4 spells like warlord's fury, sure strike etc.)

4 Lightning Strike (XLN) 149
20 Mountain (RIX) 195
4 Crash Through (M19) 133
4 Guttersnipe (M19) 145
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Tormenting Voice (M19) 164
4 Arclight Phoenix (GRN) 91
4 Electrostatic Field (GRN) 97
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115
4 Light Up the Stage (RNA) 107
4 Skewer the Critics (RNA) 115

fanaskin · Feb 7, 2019

Enzee said:
I've been in arena since the closed beta, when ixalan was the only set available. I've seen people constantly making the comparison with paper mtg when defending the 'cost' of mtga, and that analogy is irrelevant and idiotic.

that took 5 seconds to disprove

Magic: The Gathering Arena MTGA Accounts

Tmac · Feb 7, 2019

Chimney said:
Look man I won't knock anyone for being broke, but you don't NEED the meta to succeed. There are players posting their absolute shit looking decks on reddit making mythic, people playing pre-cons making mythic. All you need is time, luck and good skills.

It's frustrating at times not having access to everything, but even though I could plunk down $1k and buy ALL the cards, I don't and I'm happy mastering the piloting of 2-3 decks and making 1-2 completely jank garbage for fun per rotation.

Here are 3 that I play regularly that were competitive enough to get me to plat last and this season easily. If you like bo3 then you could sideboard plenty of cards that aren't rare/mythic as well.

All of these could be made in a couple of weeks as a new player if you're doing your dailies and popping packs with the gold you earn.

Budget Gates Deck 4 Rares

1 Archway Angel (RNA) 3
2 Forest (XLN) 277
4 Gateway Plaza (GRN) 247
3 Gruul Guildgate (RNA) 249
2 Island (XLN) 265
1 Azorius Guildgate (RNA) 243
2 Izzet Guildgate (GRN) 251
2 Mountain (XLN) 273
4 Plaza of Harmony (RNA) 254
3 Simic Guildgate (RNA) 257
2 Selesnya Guildgate (GRN) 256
2 District Guide (GRN) 128
4 Gatebreaker Ram (RNA) 126
4 Gate Colossus (RNA) 232
4 Guild Summit (GRN) 41
4 Circuitous Route (GRN) 125
4 Gates Ablaze (RNA) 102
4 Growth Spiral (RNA) 178
4 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
4 Shimmer of Possibility (RNA) 51

Budget Mono U 4 Rare

4 Merfolk Trickster (DAR) 56
4 Mist-Cloaked Herald (RIX) 43
4 Siren Stormtamer (XLN) 79
4 Tempest Djinn (DAR) 68
2 Chart a Course (XLN) 48
4 Dive Down (XLN) 53
4 Opt (XLN) 65
2 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81
4 Wizard's Retort (DAR) 75
4 Curious Obsession (RIX) 35
20 Island (XLN) 265
2 Exclusion Mage (M19) 55
1 Sleep (M19) 74
1 Negate (RIX) 44

Budget RDW 4 Rare / 4 Mythic (You can replace the arclight here if you don't have them with 4 spells like warlord's fury, sure strike etc.)

4 Lightning Strike (XLN) 149
20 Mountain (RIX) 195
4 Crash Through (M19) 133
4 Guttersnipe (M19) 145
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Tormenting Voice (M19) 164
4 Arclight Phoenix (GRN) 91
4 Electrostatic Field (GRN) 97
4 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115
4 Light Up the Stage (RNA) 107
4 Skewer the Critics (RNA) 115

Ayyy, that's what I was looking for. A 2 week wall is way mo better than a 10 week wall.

Thanks for the tips.

Kiroy · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
Ya know, if you're going to douchely post a link to cheap meta decks to prove me wrong, I suggest you make sure you're not actually proving my point for me.

There's not a deck in there that costs less than 10 Rare's.

I whaled up for allegiance but when I started I put in 5 for the starter and 20 for packs and then drafted with my gold and I had the last meta's RDW with I think 12 rares after a week or so of playing. You could do 20 bucks a month into this if you grind your gold everyday get close to a decent new netdeck per month if you want

Add a few months onto all that if you wanna go completely f2p

Lendarios · Feb 7, 2019

gate decks are fun to watch.

Tmac go watch Star City game tournaments on youtube
until you find a deck that you like, the pour all your resources into getting it. There is no way that by now you dont have a at least 60% of a tier 1 deck.

Tmac · Feb 7, 2019

Lendarios said:
gate decks are fun to watch.

Tmac go watch Star City game tournaments on youtube
until you find a deck that you like, the pour all your resources into getting it. There is no way that by now you dont have a at least 60% of a tier 1 deck.

I'll do that.

I have 40/60 of most of the tier 1 decks.

Sterling · Feb 7, 2019

Bunch of people have built up real collections off of a single prerelease code. Maybe you should learn how to actually play and win more?

zzeris · Feb 7, 2019

Tmac said:
I acknowledged that previously.

I'm not saying this game isn't playable without spending dollars. I'm just saying you can't compete at the outset of a new season. Which, makes it pay-to-win.

And I personally don't have a problem with that, I just didn't realize that until I couldn't spend money on this new release.

The only reason I'm getting grief is because this is the MTG thread, lol.

I have no problem with that statement. I'm still shocked Arena is this friendly to players. After playing the cardboard version for about 15 years, it became just too expensive with the time aspect thrown in. This gives me ok options while paying a pittance in comparison. I agree it sucks to see new decks and not be able to play. That's why I'm doing draft. This expansion is one of the easiest expansions I've ever seen to get consistent wins in draft.

yimmien · Feb 7, 2019

Not to humble brag but I have only ever payed for the 5$ intro bundle. I have every tier 1 deck built except nexus because I have no desire to build it. Some janky stuff too. Getting 4 wins a day nets you about a pack per day, or at least 1 draft per week. I actually thought the grind to build a collection was pretty fun because you start with something like below and target a deck to build for a week. You get enough to build the core of the deck you want after a week, play it the next week and decide you like it and improve it or target a different deck to build. A mistake I see a lot of people make is trying to build too many decks right off the bat and getting stuck with a bunch of half decklists and no wildcards.

Here is a red deck I threw together with 0 rares/mythics that should easily be able to get 4 wins in a short amount of time.

22 Mountain (RIX) 195
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
4 Ghitu Lavarunner (DAR) 127
4 Shock (M19) 156
4 Lightning Strike (XLN) 149
2 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
2 The Flame of Keld (DAR) 123
4 Viashino Pyromancer (M19) 166
4 Light Up the Stage (RNA) 107
4 Skewer the Critics (RNA) 115
4 Wizard's Lightning (DAR) 152
2 Spear Spewer (RNA) 117

I think that the game even gives you a rekindling phoenix and some other nice stuff to use as improvedments to this in the precons.

White weenie and mono blue are other good entry points.

MTG: Arena

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