Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,248
- -9,863
No, bestow costs a million mana to cast, this is a three colour deck you don't have the lands to support and removal will rape your enchanted fatties.
MTG thread
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Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 430
Well, the whole point of Bestow is that it reduces the effectiveness of removal on said enchanted fatties. You'll still be left with another creature to kill.
But you're right about the costs. Every Bestow creature with the exception of the satyr is waaaay overcosted for the enchantment effect, and the satyr isn't exactly pushed.
But you're right about the costs. Every Bestow creature with the exception of the satyr is waaaay overcosted for the enchantment effect, and the satyr isn't exactly pushed.
Chris
Potato del Grande
- 19,248
- -9,863
Yeah, I don't like Bestow because it doesn't reduce the effectiveness of removal below what a normal fatty would have to deal with. Bestow stops removal 2 for 1ing enchantments, it puts it down to a 1 for 1 so business as usual - what did we gain from enchanting the creature? Playing more creatures, ideally with haste sounds better to me to avoid removal.
When I heard about this mechanic, I thought that your regular 1-3 mana aura would stay at that cost or one more and give you creature when it died. Who ever played 4+ mana auras?
With half the set left to go, it seems like they spoiled the expensive "exciting" cards first - we need cards to enable these mechanics now and help them either turn on (multiple targeting spells for Heroic) or give a benefit to using them (Bestow).
When I heard about this mechanic, I thought that your regular 1-3 mana aura would stay at that cost or one more and give you creature when it died. Who ever played 4+ mana auras?
With half the set left to go, it seems like they spoiled the expensive "exciting" cards first - we need cards to enable these mechanics now and help them either turn on (multiple targeting spells for Heroic) or give a benefit to using them (Bestow).
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
- 28,294
- 76,178
Gah, this is the first set in a long time that I think is going to wring a moderate amount of money out of me. With the rotation things look like they'll slow down a little and between Ravinica block and Theros there's all manner of weird shit to tinker with. I just play in the MTGO casual room but I'm pretty fucking positive I'm going to need to buy Sylvan Caryatid and Thoughtseize. I remember not ever having Thoughtseize during Lorwyn block and it almost took the entire color of black off the table as even being playable. I'm usually the idiot trying to ramp up to something retarded and accel is so poopy right now that the Caryatid is likewise mandatory.
Hero's Downfall should not be a rare, damn it.
Hero's Downfall should not be a rare, damn it.
Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 5,081
- 5,989
There are a LOT of good cards in this set. Red just got a beat stick sweeper that Answers Voice of Resurgence.
"Anger of the Gods"
2 red 1 colorless
3 damage to all creatures. If a creature dealt damage this way dies this turn, Exile it instead.
That card would have owned the last block. While the duel lands suck, they are the only ones this block will see. If I still played FNM every Friday and collected/Traded like I used to, I honestly would consider ordering a case of this set. Despite Red answering Voice of resurgence(Yes Pillar of flame does the same thing), this Block actually gives green/white a new answer to "Anger of the gods" with "Fleecemane Lion".
In case you do not know this one..
Fleecemane Lion:
1 White 1 Green
3/3
Monstrosity 1 (Creature gets +1/+1)
3coloress 2 green to activate Monstrosity
As long as this creature is Monstrous it is Hexproof and Indestructible.
"Anger of the Gods"
2 red 1 colorless
3 damage to all creatures. If a creature dealt damage this way dies this turn, Exile it instead.
That card would have owned the last block. While the duel lands suck, they are the only ones this block will see. If I still played FNM every Friday and collected/Traded like I used to, I honestly would consider ordering a case of this set. Despite Red answering Voice of resurgence(Yes Pillar of flame does the same thing), this Block actually gives green/white a new answer to "Anger of the gods" with "Fleecemane Lion".
In case you do not know this one..
Fleecemane Lion:
1 White 1 Green
3/3
Monstrosity 1 (Creature gets +1/+1)
3coloress 2 green to activate Monstrosity
As long as this creature is Monstrous it is Hexproof and Indestructible.
Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 5,081
- 5,989
I can see certain decks themes getting a lot weaker. The lotleth Troll is looking real good right about now. I would advise getting a set of those while they are going for $2.00 a piece. Black/Green is looking like a solid color match-up.
The new duel lands suck because of rarity. They are scry 1 better than a gate which is worth $0.02 a piece. However players will eventually get their sets of them. I would get the Scry lands, while everyone hates them and then trade them later when players begin to realize that scry 1 is still a descent thing.
The new duel lands suck because of rarity. They are scry 1 better than a gate which is worth $0.02 a piece. However players will eventually get their sets of them. I would get the Scry lands, while everyone hates them and then trade them later when players begin to realize that scry 1 is still a descent thing.
Budos
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 592
- 10
I agree 100% on Lotleth going up. I've been toying with a post rotation Kalonian Hydra / Corpsejack combo, taking advantage of the new black legendary whip and the creature/enchantment mulch they gave green (the whip counts as an enchantment). Sorta like a black/green reanimator, but with gross hydras.
I wish they would have done a green/black scry land though :/
Mahes
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
- 5,081
- 5,989
That looks to be pretty good actually. I might have to experiment with you on that deck. hmm Lets build..
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lotleth Trolls
4 Commune with the gods (Wish this were instant speed like Mulch)
4 Kalonian Hydras
3 Whip of Erobos
3 Hero's downfall
4 Corpsejack
4 Boon Satyr
This would be my start. I would of course want creatures from this point. Having thought seize allows me to remove a potential threat to my lotleth troll. Spells that force sacrifice or exile as an example. Having the hydra come back and swing for 8 is cute. The 8 lifegain would certainly be worth it regardless if you got through. Hero's Downfall is just to good not to have at least 3 of. What other creatures did you run with? More thought made me add Boon Satyr. I just like the versatility of that card. Later on it can boost the power of a creature at flash speed and then become a creature later.
Edit: Oh..yeah corpsejack.
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lotleth Trolls
4 Commune with the gods (Wish this were instant speed like Mulch)
4 Kalonian Hydras
3 Whip of Erobos
3 Hero's downfall
4 Corpsejack
4 Boon Satyr
This would be my start. I would of course want creatures from this point. Having thought seize allows me to remove a potential threat to my lotleth troll. Spells that force sacrifice or exile as an example. Having the hydra come back and swing for 8 is cute. The 8 lifegain would certainly be worth it regardless if you got through. Hero's Downfall is just to good not to have at least 3 of. What other creatures did you run with? More thought made me add Boon Satyr. I just like the versatility of that card. Later on it can boost the power of a creature at flash speed and then become a creature later.
Edit: Oh..yeah corpsejack.
Lusiphur
Peasant
- 595
- 47
So to the guy that was asking about Modern Burn a bit back. Been busy and didn't manage to reply.
Burn is never more than 12 creatures. I run 10. 4 GG/VD and 2 DRS.
4 Goblin Guide
4 DRS/Grim Lavamancer (optional)
4 Vexing Devil (optional)
The burn package
4 Lightning Bolt (ofc)
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet (there is a debate about this as it is 2 for 2 but the scry is mandatory imo)
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
Optional
4 Shard Volley/Searing Blaze (I hate this card but some people get it to work).
Mana base (I run with 18 lands).
Mountains
Sacred Foundry
Blood Crypt
Fetchlands (names escape me as I type).
That lot can be made to work. Sideboard needs to fit the meta. Only the mana package will cost any real money and you need that for anything in Modern.
Thread here :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=485910
Burn is never more than 12 creatures. I run 10. 4 GG/VD and 2 DRS.
4 Goblin Guide
4 DRS/Grim Lavamancer (optional)
4 Vexing Devil (optional)
The burn package
4 Lightning Bolt (ofc)
4 Lava Spike
4 Bump in the Night
4 Rift Bolt
4 Magma Jet (there is a debate about this as it is 2 for 2 but the scry is mandatory imo)
4 Boros Charm
4 Skullcrack
Optional
4 Shard Volley/Searing Blaze (I hate this card but some people get it to work).
Mana base (I run with 18 lands).
Mountains
Sacred Foundry
Blood Crypt
Fetchlands (names escape me as I type).
That lot can be made to work. Sideboard needs to fit the meta. Only the mana package will cost any real money and you need that for anything in Modern.
Thread here :http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=485910
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 430
Arid Mesa and Scalding Tarn are the fetches. Mesas are borderline unreasonable, whereas Tarns are just absurd and basically legacy prices.
Speaking of which, I am really goddamn annoyed at the sudden jump in Horizon Canopy and Ruins of Trokair lately. Ruins was a dollar rare at best, and Canopy has basically tripled since the Worlds.
Speaking of which, I am really goddamn annoyed at the sudden jump in Horizon Canopy and Ruins of Trokair lately. Ruins was a dollar rare at best, and Canopy has basically tripled since the Worlds.
Budos
Golden Knight of the Realm
- 592
- 10
This is what I've been testing lately:
// Lands
8 [DDE] Forest (2)
8 [I2P] Swamp (1)
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
2 [DGM] Golgari Guildgate
// Creatures
4 [M14] Elvish Mystic
4 [RTR] Corpsejack Menace
4 [M14] Kalonian Hydra
4 [RTR] Lotleth Troll
2 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [RTR] Dreg Mangler
2 [THE] Sylvan Caryatid
// Spells
2 [MPR] Putrefy
4 [RTR] Grisly Salvage
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [THE] Commune with the Gods
2 [THE] Whip of Erebos
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 [RTR] Dreg Mangler
SB: 2 [MPR] Putrefy
SB: 1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 [THE] Whip of Erebos
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 4 [RTR] Desecration Demon
// Lands
8 [DDE] Forest (2)
8 [I2P] Swamp (1)
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
2 [DGM] Golgari Guildgate
// Creatures
4 [M14] Elvish Mystic
4 [RTR] Corpsejack Menace
4 [M14] Kalonian Hydra
4 [RTR] Lotleth Troll
2 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
2 [RTR] Dreg Mangler
2 [THE] Sylvan Caryatid
// Spells
2 [MPR] Putrefy
4 [RTR] Grisly Salvage
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
4 [THE] Commune with the Gods
2 [THE] Whip of Erebos
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 [RTR] Dreg Mangler
SB: 2 [MPR] Putrefy
SB: 1 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 [THE] Whip of Erebos
SB: 2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 4 [RTR] Desecration Demon
Lusiphur
Peasant
- 595
- 47
You cannot get around the fetches and you want all 8. It's not just for the mana fixing as you will end up pulling mountains with them, its for thinning out the deck and feeding DRS/Grim Lavamancer if you use them. You want to be consistently topdecking more heat. I have won games with one land on the board.
Sacred Foundry/Blood Crypt/And the red green one which I am too lazy to look up can be run with 2/2/1 (if used), so that will save you some money.
Lusiphur
Peasant
- 595
- 47
Disclaimer. I don't play Standard.
However, generally speaking (imo), if you don't have tutoring of some form then it is never a good idea to go with less than 4 of something you want as a response to a game changer on the other side. Thus, either run 4 of Abrupt Decay/Thoughtseize or go all in on your main strategy. With only 2 Abrupt Decay you are unlikely to have it when that really annoying permanent hits the board. With only 2 Thoughtseize you are unlikely to have it for turn 1 when you really want it. This spawned a huge debate on Mtgsalvation a while back (related to Modern but relevant to all) and that was the consensus.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 430
While there's merit to the "just play 4" argument, it is somewhat outdated deck design (for main decks). A lot of very good deck builders like Sam Black will tell you that running 1s and 2s of different cards isn't really a problem. It's all about the probability of drawing it by the turn you'd want it, and how much it detracts from your main strategy. Even a 1-of card is worth having if it's the only answer you have to a corner case scenario that you cannot win. If you look at a lot of top decks from the last rotation, you'll often find things like 1 of a given utility land, or a mix of 1 and 2 copies of various removal.
Where you're 100% right is in sideboarding strategy. A sideboard full of 2 copies of a bunch of cards that answer specific problems with your deck that aren't addressed in the main board is almost worse than nothing at all, and speaks to flaws in the design itself. You want to pack your sideboard with cards that are either absolutely vital to surviving a given deck (ie. ways to break combos in Modern) or more powerful in a given matchup than your main deck. You want the things you put in to actually be stronger than what you take out, and that's pretty much impossible with pairs of cards shoved into the gaps in your main strategy. Often, the sideboarded deck just ends up weaker anyway, and you're better off not having it. It's part of learning how to sideboard properly.
For black in Theros, I really don't see any reason not to play 4x Thoughtseize all the time simply because it is black's most powerful card and it is a universal answer. There's very little downside, and in the rare situations where the card is a bad matchup (vs. some aggro, for instance), you can make them the first thing you side out for cards that work better vs. your opponent.
Where you're 100% right is in sideboarding strategy. A sideboard full of 2 copies of a bunch of cards that answer specific problems with your deck that aren't addressed in the main board is almost worse than nothing at all, and speaks to flaws in the design itself. You want to pack your sideboard with cards that are either absolutely vital to surviving a given deck (ie. ways to break combos in Modern) or more powerful in a given matchup than your main deck. You want the things you put in to actually be stronger than what you take out, and that's pretty much impossible with pairs of cards shoved into the gaps in your main strategy. Often, the sideboarded deck just ends up weaker anyway, and you're better off not having it. It's part of learning how to sideboard properly.
For black in Theros, I really don't see any reason not to play 4x Thoughtseize all the time simply because it is black's most powerful card and it is a universal answer. There's very little downside, and in the rare situations where the card is a bad matchup (vs. some aggro, for instance), you can make them the first thing you side out for cards that work better vs. your opponent.
Heylel
Trakanon Raider
- 3,602
- 430
And speaking of Modern, Anger of the Gods is terrifying for my MeliraPod deck. It's got me looking at other options just for something new to play. I'm actually thinking about trying out Tron, either MonoU or Red/Green. I have all the pieces except Karn, which I can probably scoop up this weekend at the Open.
